Cracking a Roster Spot

[cfposi]

Grabovski reminds me of Ovechkin. The way he plays a lights out, fireball style. What he doesn't possess is Ovechkin's aggressiveness and possibly his finish either. I know Grabovski is great at creating chances but I haven't seem him finish too many of them.

Grabs is also tiny compared to AO. I REALLY like this kid, saw him play against the rangers this year. The skated so fast the Rangers D were all like: "what the hell was that? Marek, did you see a 12 year old zip by or was that my imagination??". The problem with Grabs is not so much about his size, but more to do with his resilience. He will be injured almost every season. But if he can start finishing those brilliant chances he creates, the Habs may decide that 50 games a season from this kid is worth more than bringing on someone else. Here is hoping!

[ShortHanded]

Rangers D were all like: "what the hell was that? Marek, did you see a 12 year old zip by or was that my imagination??".

HAHAAHAA!

[jcc]

Folks this is my first post here.

I have been unable to read anything subtantial (I live in Toronto) regarding how the HABS rookie development camp that just ended fared.

Are there are reports out there? Or do list members have any idea has to who did well, etc?

[simonus]

welcome jcc.

I haven't heard too much about the camp per se, but here is a short review from one fan:

http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?show...st&p=230422

also, there are some decent videos at youtube.

[jcc]

Seems to me that there is an over-abundance of players within the HABS organization. If I were BG, I would do the following.

First, I would trade Huet, Streit, Plekanec, Kostopoulos, Milroy, & Locke to Tampa Bay for Lecavalier: More or less the same CAP money would be involved for both teams.

Second, I would trade Halak, Bouillon, Gorges, Bégin, Urquhart & Lemieux to Boston for Bergeron. Again, more or less the same CAP money would be involved.

That would leave a starting roster of...

Forwards:

Bergeron-Lecavalier-Latendresse

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder

Janne Lahti-Chipchura-A. Kostitsyn

Kovalev-Lapierre-S. Kostitsyn

Grabovski-Smolinski-Ferland

D-Men

Komisarek- Markov

O'Byrne- Hamrlik

Dandenault- Côté

Biron-Valentenko

Golies: Price-???

[simonus]

jcc, trades like those never happen in real life. They don't even really work in NHL2K7. You also have 5 forward lines and 4 defense lines.

Also, the team you are having Price start the season... without a competent backup. You also destroy the team's depth.

[ShortHanded]

Seems to me that there is an over-abundance of players within the HABS organization. If I were BG, I would do the following.

First, I would trade Huet, Streit, Plekanec, Kostopoulos, Milroy, & Locke to Tampa Bay for Lecavalier: More or less the same CAP money would be involved for both teams.

Second, I would trade Halak, Bouillon, Gorges, Bégin, Urquhart & Lemieux to Boston for Bergeron. Again, more or less the same CAP money would be involved.

That would leave a starting roster of...

Forwards:

Bergeron-Lecavalier-Latendresse

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder

Janne Lahti-Chipchura-A. Kostitsyn

Kovalev-Lapierre-S. Kostitsyn

Grabovski-Smolinski-Ferland

D-Men

Komisarek- Markov

O'Byrne- Hamrlik

Dandenault- Côté

Biron-Valentenko

Golies: Price-???

Ummm... Just because the same cap money is involved between too teams, doesn't mean another team is going to want a bunch of our as-yet-unproven players as well as some who've topped out and aren't gonna get any better for their elite NHLers.

[jcc]

jcc, trades like those never happen in real life. They don't even really work in NHL2K7. You also have 5 forward lines and 4 defense lines.

Also, the team you are having Price start the season... without a competent backup. You also destroy the team's depth.

Sometimes... dreams come true. There have been a few in the past.

In the scenario I painted, only Plek and Halak are really solid youngters. Everyone else, youngsters and veterans alike, can be interchanged with others from Hamilton. Somebody on the fifth line would not make it --probably Grabs; Similarly, someone on the fourth d-pairing would also not make it - Valentenko, which would mean Hamilton.

As for Price's backup, another trade would be required --maybe Thibault.

That would add up to 23 players.

[simonus]

can you give me some examples of similar trades actually happening?

Bonus points if you can find multi-player deals where:

10 pts: trading a player you just signed (Kostopoulus)

30 pts: trading 6 players to net 1 in return

40 pts: trading 6 players to net 1 player from a division rival (boston)

50 pts: trading both your goalies

PS - fantastic way to start your time for HW

Edited July 20, 2007 by simonus

[ShortHanded]

In the scenario I painted, only Plek and Halak are really solid youngters. Everyone else, youngsters and veterans alike, can be interchanged with others from Hamilton.

That's exactly why Tampa and Boston would never give us their best players, respectively. quantity does not equal quality...

can you give me some examples of similar trades actually happening?

Bonus points if you can find multi-player deals where:

10 pts: trading a player you just signed (Kostopoulus)

30 pts: trading 6 players to net 1 in return

40 pts: trading 6 players to net 1 player from a division rival (boston)

50 pts: trading both your goalies

PS - fantastic way to start your time for HW

Yeah, just about everything about the trade ideas was bogus, but you just nailed exactly WHY they're insane, point for point.

[Punkned]

can you give me some examples of similar trades actually happening?

Bonus points if you can find multi-player deals where:

10 pts: trading a player you just signed (Kostopoulus)

30 pts: trading 6 players to net 1 in return

40 pts: trading 6 players to net 1 player from a division rival (boston)

50 pts: trading both your goalies

PS - fantastic way to start your time for HW

Philadelphia Flyers traded Ron Hextall, Peter Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, 1st round selection (Jocelyn Thibault) in 1993, 1st round selection (later traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, later traded to the Washington Capitals - Nolan Baumgartner) in 1994 and cash to the Quebec Nordiques for Eric Lindros.

I just made 30 points ahah

Edited July 20, 2007 by Punkned

[simonus]

you know, when I wrote that I thought about Lindros, but wasn't sure exactly how much was given. I thought maybe I should have termed it "star player" or "established player," but decided against it.

I think the fact that this was one of the stupider trades in NHL history shows why the Simonus Bogus Scale™ works.

[Chips]

Sometimes... dreams come true. There have been a few in the past.

In the scenario I painted, only Plek and Halak are really solid youngters. Everyone else, youngsters and veterans alike, can be interchanged with others from Hamilton. Somebody on the fifth line would not make it --probably Grabs; Similarly, someone on the fourth d-pairing would also not make it - Valentenko, which would mean Hamilton.

As for Price's backup, another trade would be required --maybe Thibault.

That would add up to 23 players.

First of all Welcome to HW JCC; Hope your stay here is fun and permanent. You will find this crowd more of a realistic group of fans. Although, like your post many here enjoy the fantasy posts as well.

I say continue to dream. Just as long as your having fun! Welcome home to HW fellow habs FAN!

[jcc]

OK now everyone knows what I would like...BUT!.

I started out with the statement that there is an over-abundance of players in the HABS organizations: that is NHL-calibre players, with quite a few in Hamilton ready to move up.

BTW, how many of how saw any Bulldog games, especially during the end half?

Anyway, below is the list of NHL-calibre players in the HABS organization, understandking quite well of course, that some will object to so and so, etc. You will notice that we can almost suit up two full teams with HABS sweaters. Not everyone can be sent down back to Hamilton. What are BG and GC to do with the glut?

Fowards

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder

Latendresse-Plekanec- Kovalev

Lahti-Smolinski-A. Kostitsyn

Kostopoulos-Lapierre-Bégin

S. Kostitsyn

Chipchura

Ferland

Grabovski

Urquhart

Milroy

Locke

Lemieux

D-Men

Komisarek- Markov

Gorges-Hamrlik

Dandenault-Bouillon

Streit

O'Byrne

Côté

Biron

Archer

Valentenko

Golies: Huet, Halak, Price, Yanis

[Fanpuck33]

S. Kostitsyn, Chipchura, Ferland, Grabovski, Urquhart, Milroy, Locke, Lemieux

Côté, Biron, Archer, Valentenko

Yanis

Milroy and Locke will be injury replacements at best. Grabovski and Chipchura have a chance to make the team, but neither is so good that he couldn't use more time in Hamilton. Ferland likely will be a depth player for the Habs, sitting in the pressbox most nights. He's a better choice for that job than Grabs or Chip, since they both have more potential and should be playing everyday. Urquhart barely is good enough for the AHL, let alone the NHL. Lemieux... um, who? Exactly. Kostitsyn hasn't even played an AHL game yet, he's a very long shot to make the NHL.

Cote and Biron aren't NHLers. They're emergency callups at best. Archer barely makes the Bulldogs lineup, let alone the Habs. Valentenko is gonna spend time in the AHL before he sees NHL action.

Yanis? I can only assume you mean Yann Danis.

[Chips]

JCC.

I did see quite a few games in Hamilton specially the last few and listen to many on the radio.

of the players you think are NHL ready. you left out D'agostini. He's probably NHL ready too if your going to create an entire list.

But here's the problem. Many of them still do need time to develop in my mind. Can they jump in and make a contribution in an injury situation, yes indeed and at that point I think they would give BG and company a moment of pause. And your right about another thing.

during the calder cup run. there were scouts all over the arena. Scott Bowman was at one of the games in the final series. They weren't there to only enjoy an entertain game; they are looking to grab our kids anyway they can. This all adds up to options in BG's pocket.

Trust me he will be wheeling and dealing soon but not right now and not when we can hold as many as 50 players in Hamilton, the ECHL and in other leagues, juniors and development teams. Is it fair to hold on to talent and prevent them from a shot at the NHL. No but those are the choices that need to be made to develop a great NHL caliber team from within; And the time is right for a few. O'bryne, Chipper, Grabs, D'agostini, Price (specially this kid) will get a chance to step up taste the NHL and try to earn a spot. At the same time they will be watched by all in the league and they will be asking for our youth in any trade deal for established talent, if we are ready next season for a solid playoff run.

[jcc]

Chips.

Then you saw/heard what I saw/heard.

I did forget D'Agostini in my list, though I think he needs one more year. There is also Locke, which you do not mention, who is very similar in style, etc. to Grabs but came out of the AHL playoffs with flying colors. Even then, though, that is 5-6 players, minimum, that have more than a very legitimate chance to crack the HABS this Fall. And if they stay, it will/can not be to loaf around watching the games from the press galery. Where will there be room for the forwards, particularly with the arrival of Lahti, Smolinski & Kostopoulos, which gives us 4 full lines: Higgins-Koivu-Ryder, Latendresse-Plekanec- Kovalev, Lahti-Smolinski-A. Kostitsyn, & Kostopoulos-Lapierre-Bégin.

Where will there be room for O'Byrne, never mind Biron or Côté, at defense when you already have Komisarek-Markov, Gorges-Hamrlik, Dandenault-Bouillon, and Streit.

And, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, there is the question of C. Price. This kid is for real. Can you keep both he and Halak? I doubt it since the experience is not there. Can you keep Price and Huet? Again I doubt it, since the later would be too expensive to keep even if allowed to play 50% of the games.

Thus, it seems to me that Gainey will have some very difficult choices to make (GMs always do!) in the next few months. First, who will he trade away from the current roster and/or the Bulldogs? Second, will he use trades to get what he deems to be key players a la Lecavalier/Bergeron or to load on draft picks and possibly go after John Tavares?

[Habsfan24]

This years training camp will be the most competitive since I have been alive/following the Habs. This can only be a good thing as the youngsters will be fighting for places on the big team.

I assume that Carbo will stick with a pretty similar lineup at the start of the season with Huet in goal and maybe only 1 or two new faces (from Hamilton) but don't be surprised to see some of the kids make their way up pretty quick if Carbo starts to feel the heat or is unhappy with some of the early season efforts.

[Chips]

Chips.

Then you saw/heard what I saw/heard.

I did forget D'Agostini in my list, though I think he needs one more year. There is also Locke, which you do not mention, who is very similar in style, etc. to Grabs but came out of the AHL playoffs with flying colors. Even then, though, that is 5-6 players, minimum, that have more than a very legitimate chance to crack the HABS this Fall. And if they stay, it will/can not be to loaf around watching the games from the press galery. Where will there be room for the forwards, particularly with the arrival of Lahti, Smolinski & Kostopoulos, which gives us 4 full lines: Higgins-Koivu-Ryder, Latendresse-Plekanec- Kovalev, Lahti-Smolinski-A. Kostitsyn, & Kostopoulos-Lapierre-Bégin.

Where will there be room for O'Byrne, never mind Biron or Côté, at defense when you already have Komisarek-Markov, Gorges-Hamrlik, Dandenault-Bouillon, and Streit.

And, LAST BUT NOT LEAST, there is the question of C. Price. This kid is for real. Can you keep both he and Halak? I doubt it since the experience is not there. Can you keep Price and Huet? Again I doubt it, since the later would be too expensive to keep even if allowed to play 50% of the games.

Thus, it seems to me that Gainey will have some very difficult choices to make (GMs always do!) in the next few months. First, who will he trade away from the current roster and/or the Bulldogs? Second, will he use trades to get what he deems to be key players a la Lecavalier/Bergeron or to load on draft picks and possibly go after John Tavares?

You quite right JCC I did forget Locke; but there in lies the problem. He spent much of his time in the ECHL. its difficult and I know this best after watching him he does have the skill; but its difficult to say that he will continue to play and be effective if he is promoted to the NHL or stays in the AHL for that matter.. but he certainly has earned a change to stay in Hamilton IMO, and will certainly warrant a call up if he does not make a spot at camp.

Needless to say I agree with all your conclusions. but also feel training camp and the first half of the season will dictate managements response. Furthermore, with players under contract, the ball is always in their court to continue to perform at a high level and wait for the chance and that call up, they cannot falter. The habs have never rushed talent. La Fleur was a perfect example; I think even he had to spend a year in the minors before being called up to the NHL.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Chips

[jcc]

You quite right JCC I did forget Locke; but there in lies the problem. He spent much of his time in the ECHL. its difficult and I know this best after watching him he does have the skill; but its difficult to say that he will continue to play and be effective if he is promoted to the NHL or stays in the AHL for that matter.. but he certainly has earned a change to stay in Hamilton IMO, and will certainly warrant a call up if he does not make a spot at camp.

Needless to say I agree with all your conclusions. but also feel training camp and the first half of the season will dictate managements response. Furthermore, with players under contract, the ball is always in their court to continue to perform at a high level and wait for the chance and that call up, they cannot falter. The habs have never rushed talent. La Fleur was a perfect example; I think even he had to spend a year in the minors before being called up to the NHL.

Chips, although I stand to be corrected, I think Locke played all of his 80 regular season games with Hamilton this year. Not shattering by any means, except the sheer number of games for a player of his size/weight, with 20 goals +35 assists = 55 points. But, in his 22 playoff games, he scored 10 goals + 12 assists = 22 points, by far the best effort of any Bulldog. Locke was a scoring sensation in the OHL and now seems to have understood what it takes to move on to the NHL. Urquhart, a 2nd round draftee, is the one who spent most of his season in the ECHL: he did not do particularly well when recalled by Hamilton with something like 20 games left, nor in the playoffs for that matter.

[sakiqc]

Locke will make a pretty decent living in the AHL. I'm not sure yet he has the desire it takes to play at the NHL level. He was a sensational player at the junior level, but that doesn't automatically translate into NHL success. He'll need to have a far better training camp than last year. I was very disapointed by his play last training camp. He even played in the middle of Kovalev and Samsonov in the preseason. He was horrible (alright, the 2 other guys surely didn't help him look good lol)

[Chips]

Chips, although I stand to be corrected, I think Locke played all of his 80 regular season games with Hamilton this year. Not shattering by any means, except the sheer number of games for a player of his size/weight, with 20 goals +35 assists = 55 points. But, in his 22 playoff games, he scored 10 goals + 12 assists = 22 points, by far the best effort of any Bulldog. Locke was a scoring sensation in the OHL and now seems to have understood what it takes to move on to the NHL. Urquhart, a 2nd round draftee, is the one who spent most of his season in the ECHL: he did not do particularly well when recalled by Hamilton with something like 20 games left, nor in the playoffs for that matter.

Your right my BAD; Locke did spend the entire season in the AHL. I must have had a brain fart when I was writing that response.

So I'll give you another Bulldog that is ready for his NHL shot; but I'm not convinced he can make it work in the bigs. Needless to say your points are well taken. The bulldogs have a team of players that could be NHL level performers. But they are our prospects and will be used to prop up our team/trades. I'm not willing to give up multiples of our kids for one or two pieces that may help us, next season.

You need solid prospects in a long NHL season; injuries are part of the game and we will see the youth in our lineup; The puck will always be in their court to be played and played well so that they give management a moment to pause and consider a permanent position.