GDT: Wild vs Canadiens

[sakiqc]

Hey guys, take a deep breath ! Markov is coming back ! We'll make it through! Not only his presence should instantly solve our powerplay, it will help us a lot in our own zone and should have a calming and confidence effect. The "Curse of '09" is soon over! Martin and Gainey will look like genius in a couple weeks.

[KoZed]

And sadly, this is the recourse of someone who can't continue the argument. I know you want me to have racial bias, etc, etc, because that's what *should* happen in the corner of your persecuted universe, but I don't. It's all true, all those franco issues are completely upheld consistently. Look at some of your threads where you insist that we should have drafted only franco.

Anyhow, that was but a sliver of my argument. Why focus only on that? Persecution complex which leaves your exceptionally bright mind walled up and on the defensive endlessly.

What about the rest of the argument? Make a point, Koz. Keep the debate going, don't duck and cover because you see something that may offend. It's not my intention to offend, but to challenge. Prove me wrong! I'm here to learn as much as anything else, but when the recourse for a longer argument is to pull out certain commentary and focus only on that, the argument becomes silly. If you don't like my argument, break it down and tell me why. Tell me why you think parity and salary caps and my mis-diagnosed perception of slow improvement is wrong. Don't just fall back into a persecuted corner. You want to convince me, my mind is open - it always has been and always will be. Anyone who knows me personally knows I'm willing to listen to a real argument. But make one.

What about you? Is your mind open? If I made even one point that you might agree with, would you even conceed that? Or are you now just blustering obsinately because you refuse to lose a point in an argument. You're smarter than that, Koz. Much smarter. You're an educated person and someone who has done plenty of debate on real issues bigger than hockey. And I suspect you don't have those arguments all disolve into racial quagmires. So make your argument. You make a winning point, I'll concede it. You do the same.

Colin, with all due respect, YOU bring up race/language/politics a whole lot more than I do. In this particular case, again, you are the one using the language card. Not me. I'm talking about the team's culture, as in business culture, customs, values. You reply with a boatload of shit about language that you try to stuff into my mouth and pass as mine. The second you did that, there wasnt any debate anymore.

Everything you said about languages could be pretty much summed up like this: "Everything that's wrong about the Habs is caused by French". You basically dismissed any potential criticism toward the team as nothing more than French people --me included-- being racists. "Well, nothing you say is valid; you're just saying it because you're French and you're biased". That's you're ultimate argument. You don't like the message, so you go for the messenger. And you've got the nerves to say I'm the one not debating. Ah!

As you might know, I got a B.A. in Political Sciences. I like to talk politics. Just as here, I'm independent and I dont adhere to any party line. I value my freedom of thinking too much. I got a couple of co-workers who are hardcore separatists, members of the PQ and all. Whenever I'm trying to talk about some social or political issue with them, it always ends up the same: whenever they're cornered, they fall back on a shortcut, an absolute panacea to all issues: Quebec independence. "Well, if Quebec was independent, the problem would be solved. It's the Federal/Rest of Canada's fault". That's their answer to everything. It's "the Others" fault, without them everything would be fine and dandy. I just stopped trying to have any discussion with them. I already know their answer to everything.

Colin, you have a lot in common with my hardcore separatists coworkers. You, too, have your fall back, absolute panacea to all issues concerning the Habs. In this case, "the Others" that are the root of all evil, the cause of all the problems to the Habs; are the Frenchs. The French medias, the French fans; even the French history of the Habs is a problem. Causes the current French fans to "live in a mythical past". You know, people "the likes of me"...

Just like I did with my coworkers, I'm gonna do with you: I just wont bother anymore. I already know your intellectually lazy shortcut failsafe answer to all issues concerning the Habs: it's the Francophone's fault. Besides, why would I even bother spending the time to come up with arguments: you just proved you were very well capable to make some up and pass them as mine and paint me as am irrational linguistic racist in the process. Pin the board's demise on me as well, if it can further unburden your conscience. Global warming and the economic crisis too, while you're at it. I promise I wont say a word against it; wouldnt want to look "persecuted" or anything. Being able to just dump all the blame on "the Others" might be demagogic, but it's just so darn convenient. Right?

Right...

[KoZed]

Kozed never mentioned that the Habs had to be the Sam Pollock Canadiens. I never hear Kozed attacking the

terrible teams of the 80s as an insult to firewagon hockey, yet you painted him with that brush by using phrases

like "people like you", "Nothing is good enough for fans like you" .

You rail on him for the demise of this board, and say he is not willing to defend his point of view yet offered

absolutely no rebuttal of his post. Just platitudes to convey your agenda, your point of view.

I read both posts and agreed with both to varying degrees, but apparently there is no middle ground. Either you are drinking

a whole pitcher of Kool-Aid, or you are a fool to be drinking it. There is no discussion,

It is "I am right/You are wrong", you are with me, or you are against me. WTF, I have had plenty of discussions with

C.C/saskhab/Chris/Kozed where I am 180º opposed, but I never fail to respect where they are coming from, I never fail to respect

their passion or knowledge for the game, I never fail to respect how they have changed my perspective on plenty of subjects.

The one truth is, this board isn't what it was 2-3 years ago. The game threads have ZERO insight and offer nothing

but attacks and defenders of the attacked. When once there were 10-15 insightful members which helped ignite

stimulating debates and informative points of view has turned into the same discussion over and over with the same repeating

points of view. Personally I used to come on here 10-15 times per day, now I feel like my comments involve the same

discussions I have been having for 6 months, the only way I can take part in discussions is to repeat my opinions that

I have stated endlessly and what is the result? What is the benefit to anybody? I know what people are going to post before I even read the bloody page.When a play happens in a game, I know exactly the individuals who will attack, I know the individuals who will defend, I know the inidividuals who will be apologists.

The top two threads right now are essentially Price/Halak. Every thread devolves into Price/Halak, Pro-Gainey/Anti-Gainey.

Gainey is not Rejean Houle, nor Sam Pollock. Price is not Patrick Roy, nor Jocelyn Thibault. Halak is not Tomas Vokoun.

Can somebody come up with another theory outside of injuries and team cohesion for this mess?

Now it has devolved into two of the more respected posters fighting about what? The same discussion that has been going

on since the summer, points that have been made a million times. This board has turned into a forum of people arguing things

they want to be true, manipulating facts to push forward their agenda and stonewalling dissenting opinion. It is no longer a

discussion, it is factions set up counting their victories. I said Latendresse sucked, he was traded, I am right. I told you Gomez

was crap, I am right. Where is the room for an evolving perspective? It is like a ######ing court room in here. You said so and so

on such a date, therefore you are being a hypocrite for changing your opinion, you were wrong, I am right.

I don't care if you are wrong or right, just be original, unique, passionate, funny, creative or thought provoking. Jesus, every simplistic discussion has a 50/50 probability for being correct, so you don't need to be right to earn MY respect.

So true...

[habs rule]

kozed and jackp are apair of pkrhds Way to go Colin and habsy and torontohab

Just had too out

[RJP]

See that's the kind of ridiculous talk that prickles and is useless on boards. You're saying that if we don't see things YOUR way, then we're 100% incorrect? Do you all have infallibility on your side? Can you fit through doors with ego's that large? Can you not see that there could be merit in other ways of doing things? No, You. Are. Always. Right. Impossible to argue against such people. I believe Zealot is the word for it.

EDIT: spelling (thanks Jets, now we know you read the Habs boards - closet fan, aren't you!)

See? - that wasn't the point of the debate, it was about "desire" to win and "hating" to lose. Your paranoia picked on the wrong issue. Relax Colin, no one's saying your opinion is not valued or rightful, don't get personal about it. As for ego, infallibleness and zealousness, you've got the wrong person. I rarely post because of the irrational level it gets to; ergo I don't have those characteristics you mention, otherwise I'd be posting all the time like you do. However, in this case I happen to have agreed with Kozed simply because I shared his opinion on why we are not in the standings where I think we really belong, despite the injuries. Not top 3 in the East, not yearly Stanley Cups, just competing hard every night and wanting to win.

Who's killing this board Colin? People like me who rarely post or those who constantly do and then get offended by opposing views and get personal? Read your response again. As habs Fans we are above this surely.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Of all the stupid activities in life, screaming and yelling and name-calling on internet message boards has to be right up there with using bubblegum as a bungee cord.