Streit & Hainsey - 20/20 Hindsight

[smon]

I'll preface this by saying that hindsight is 20/20, but its fairly obvious from how this turned out that management really dropped the ball on this. Not Gainey neccessarily, but European scouts for sure.

Streit is a serviceable defenseman, but to date his play has just not been NHL calibre. For a supposed powerplay quarterback, his play with the puck has been dreadful. And let's just not start with his defense (with the exception of last night which wasnt as catastrophic as it usually is). He usually gets all of his time on the powerplay, but undeservedly. Often times when Montreal has dressed 7 dmen, and played him exclusively for the powerplay. I've heard that he has a 30 game clause - ridiculous. How did he get this contract? Well, some scouts saw his work as the best defenseman in the Swiss League and this was needed to lure him back. But obviously, those skills don't necessarily translate to North America. He had a failed attempt at North American hockey several years back and ended up in the IHL.

The point I'm trying to make is that Hainsey should have been kept over Streit at the end of preseason. Streit played then like he plays now - mediocrity. Hainsey had flashes of brilliance, and flashes of sheer and utter stupidity during preseason. But let's get one thing straight - he had potential, he was not drafted 13th overall for no reason. And its safe to say he probably couldnt make more mistakes than Streit. At least with Hainsey there were some chance that he could improve... he deserved a chance to finally stick with the team, like Komisarek. Komi made some mistakes last year, and this year, but the development of his game has been obvious. Whereas with Streit its become painfully clear that they're simply giving him his 30 games and getting him outta here.

Now the plan wasn't a bad one - European defenseman adjusts to "new" NHL, since everyone has to adjust, why can't he? So in one fell swoop he bypassed Hainsey on the depth chart, thanks to that contract. Now this of course led to Hainsey's demotion and eventual callup. And naturally a struggling team would be more than happy to give a once-elite prospect a shot. So now Montreal has a $275,000 albatross on the salary cap, not to mention the $550,000 given to Streit.

Now all this wouldn't have happened if the brain trust had done some homework. Another sorry example of the way some top prospects pan out for Montreal - Hossa, Ward, anyone?

[Mark Napier]

I was screaming for Gainey to keep Hainsey over Streit because if for nothing else they could of recalled Streit without him having to clear waivers and I saw no real advantage in terms of level of play for Streit. When I was saying this in the preseason, most here disagreed with me, siding with Gainey. I guess you need a GM title to get any respect around here, lol.

[option+]

It was Pierre Gauthier that was really championed Streit. I have to admit, I thought he'd be a success after watching him in the World Championships a few times. He still might be. Unlikely, but possible.

Losing Hainsey hurts but mostly because of the circumstances. If we had Souray, Komi and Markov in the lineup now this would be a non-issue.

[CoRvInA]

Read My thread somewhere else I cant remmeber where I put it... CHEMISTRY FELLERS HAINSEY Must have pissed off more than Gainey and Julien... and you shoudnt care if Hainsey was 5 times better than streit.... Which he probably is... But he shoots Left and we needs a Righty! Plus you dont shower U stink up the dressing room and 3/4 of the team hates your guts

Enough said BYE BYE!

[CoRvInA]

By the way I told Alex Henry's girlfriend to tell him to smack the living Crap out of HAINSEY TONIGHT!!!!

[smon]

The 30 Game clause really takes the cake for me.

Streit's done, whether we like it or not. Unlikely that he can play at the NHL level, and if he can, he's probably got zero confidence in his game right now..

Hard to guess, but I'd wager he's thinking being the best of the best in Switzerland was more suited to him.

[Rooster]

I'm not sure, but I don't think it was a 30 game guaranteed clause......more of a payment the Habs had to make if he didn't play 30 games (cause the CBA didn't allow the Habs to offer him a one way contract which is what he wanted to come to NA). Anyways, this is kinda semantics.....even if he was guaranteed 30 games played, what would happen if the Habs disregarded that? No court would grant an injunction forcing the Habs to play Streit, he would be awarded damages in the form of money. Same difference.

Nothing really stops the Habs from not playing him. I think they want to play him, they haven't given up on him.

[CoRvInA]

Originally posted by option+

It was Pierre Gauthier that was really championed Streit. I have to admit, I thought he'd be a success after watching him in the World Championships a few times. He still might be. Unlikely, but possible.

Losing Hainsey hurts but mostly because of the circumstances. If we had Souray, Komi and Markov in the lineup now this would be a non-issue.

Not to worry me ladd as the saying goes the Best Defence is a good offence... its a perfect experiment lets watch and behold the behavior of our forwards as they rush to score even more to protect the hive from the invading foes

Excellent oportunity this will undoubtedly help us in the end!

after the storm ... You know what I mean!:ghg:

[smon]

Originally posted by Rooster

I'm not sure, but I don't think it was a 30 game guaranteed clause......more of a payment the Habs had to make if he didn't play 30 games (cause the CBA didn't allow the Habs to offer him a one way contract which is what he wanted to come to NA). Anyways, this is kinda semantics.....even if he was guaranteed 30 games played, what would happen if the Habs disregarded that? No court would grant an injunction forcing the Habs to play Streit, he would be awarded damages in the form of money. Same difference.

Nothing really stops the Habs from not playing him. I think they want to play him, they haven't given up on him.

Yeah I believe it was financial. But it makes him more of a salary cap liability if he doesnt play 30 games.

Either way, yeah the club wants to give him a chance. But they really don't have a choice anyways, they made their one back in preseason.

[Peter Puck]

Originally posted by Rooster

I'm not sure, but I don't think it was a 30 game guaranteed clause......more of a payment the Habs had to make if he didn't play 30 games (cause the CBA didn't allow the Habs to offer him a one way contract which is what he wanted to come to NA). Anyways, this is kinda semantics.....even if he was guaranteed 30 games played, what would happen if the Habs disregarded that? No court would grant an injunction forcing the Habs to play Streit, he would be awarded damages in the form of money. Same difference.

Nothing really stops the Habs from not playing him. I think they want to play him, they haven't given up on him.

We thrashed this question out quite a while ago. I believe the answer was that if the Habs don't dress Streit for 30 games we have to pay the Swiss Elite League a (relatively small) financial penalty. I don't think this is a serious consideration for Julien and Gainey when they decide whether to play Streit.

Perhaps Hainsey would have been better than Streit but the Habs brain trust definitely didn't think so. Even if Hainsey is/will be better, Streit is definitely the next on our defensive depth chart.

[alexstream]

Hainsey is as good as Hossa

No heart, some talent, but no effort, floating and then oops a spark of talent... These guys are not useful to a winning team

If you want them, go cheer for them with their new teams.

Next to go? Fresh Prince Ribeiro

Jump in the bandwagon to trade Ribeiro

[smon]

Well, jeez your attitude is just great. I'm stating the obvious - giving a 25 year old former first rounder a shot is better than giving a Swiss league allstar who has tried before and failed a shot.

As for Ribs, well why would there be takers? And who'd pick up the offensive slack as the second line centre..?

Plekanec? His offensive capabilities aren't so great.

Bonk? All of 0 goals.

Higgins? Barely any ice time.

Begin? Awesome energy guy, but not more. let him do what he does best.

[Rooster]

Originally posted by Peter Puck

We thrashed this question out quite a while ago. I believe the answer was that if the Habs don't dress Streit for 30 games we have to pay the Swiss Elite League a (relatively small) financial penalty. I don't think this is a serious consideration for Julien and Gainey when they decide whether to play Streit.

Perhaps Hainsey would have been better than Streit but the Habs brain trust definitely didn't think so. Even if Hainsey is/will be better, Streit is definitely the next on our defensive depth chart.

Quite a nice way around the prohibition on one way contracts. I was wondering about that while I wrote. Giving Streit compensation if he didn't play, IS -to the extent of the guaranteed compensation- a one way contract. They just give the money to a third person -can't believe the CBA didn't contemplate that. Silly little loophole. But yeah, the compensation would in any event not be greater than the dif. between what he has earned as per games played and $550,000 (his salary for the full NHL year). Nothing that would affect management's decision on who to play if they had a clear preference for someone else.

To be fair, hindsight was unfortunately not available at the end of training camp. Hainsey didn't prove anything and Streit did have potential. They made a call that was reasonable at the time it was made.

Where they might have erred is by not taking the safest possible route (they didn't do that in Hossa's case either). The safest route would have been to send Streit down and play Hainsey - keeping the possibility of calling up Streit without having to clear waivers on the way up if Hainsey didn't do -or in the case of injuries. With Hossa, they could have sent Perezhogin down after camp (only one that didn't need to clear waivers) and then see how the players panned out during the season (they would have seen early on that Dags was no worth his spot -which he didn't really show during preseason-) and Perezhogin would have been called up and Dags out.

They are professional management and they make calls they feel comfortable with, without necessarily having to take the longest, safest road. However, in both these cases, they seem to have made minor mistakes and the safest route would have prevented that.

[alexstream]

shhh

Jump in the band wagon or don't

it's a one way ticket, you can't be partly in

[Leafs Suck]

Did I fall asleep for 3 or 4 years? and if I did, when did Hainsey win a Norris trophy?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he start the last NHL season in Montreal and eventually lost his job? He had five seasons to make and stick with the team and he never did. And frankly lets be honest, this franchise is not filled with All-Stars on defense and won't be confused with the Detroit Red Wings defense. He had more then enough opportunites to make the team AND HE DIDN'T.

If Hainsey had stayed and played like crap, these same "Hainsey for Prime Minister" people would be screaming for him to be sent down. Some people you can never please.

"Shoulda kept Hainsey"

"Shoulda kept Hossa"

"Shoulda kept Ward"

Shoulda done this, shoulda done that. There is a reason we post on a board and people like Bob Gainey are the ones making the decision.

It was time for Hainsey to shlt or get off the commode. He didn't, and that's his problems not ours.

Time to sign Benoit to a big league deal and give a shot as well.

[Edited on 2005/12/1 by Leafs Suck]

[alexstream]

Ok, let's play a game fellas

It's the "trade wire game"

You have the choice between two lovely package

The Bangin B Bros

Bouillon (who we got from Nashville after they took him in the waiver draft)

+

Begin

OR

The First rounder Flopilidooes

Hossa

+

Ward

+

Hainsey

It's like a trade, a 3 for 2, The Bangin B Bros vs

The First rounder Flopilidooes, who do you choose? I know it's a hard one eh

If you're in your right mind, you'll make the right choice and stop whining about our latest "loss"

[Fanpuck33_]

Originally posted by Leafs Suck

If Hainsey had stayed and played like crap, these same "Hainsey for Prime Minister" people would be screaming for him to be sent down. Some people you can never please.

"Shoulda kept Hainsey"

"Shoulda kept Hossa"

"Shoulda kept Ward"

I know this isn't directed at me, but I am one of the people who is sad to see Hainsey go. I'm not saying we shoulda kept him though, I'm just saying our current situation wouldn't be quite as bad as it is if he were still around.

As for Ward, I was sad to see him go. He never lived up to his full potential, but I thought he was a fine 4th line player and a good winger for Begin.

[Leafs Suck]

Both had countless chances. This isn't hold your hand NHL till your 30 and then we decide you can't make it, they should shlt when they had the chance. They didn't, so they got off the pot.

[CoRvInA]

Im gonna listen and watch the event summary for the Columbus Wild game wanna see what he does!

Just 2 Curious!

[Rooster]

I don't think anybody is saying that Hainsey, Hossa or whomever else will be stars, just that we could have used Hainsey last night, we could use Hossa over Dags and etc. Is any of this a big deal? NO! Could it have been prevented with tighter roster management, yes. Is it a big deal? No. (wait, I've said that already).

[Funk Doc]

Look at Jonathan Aitken, he was drafted 1st round, 8th overall and he cant hold a regular spot in the NHL

[CoRvInA]

as of the first period Hainsey has one shot on goal .. plus two blocked shots... and 5;39 min on Ice Eventime only of course

nothing spectacular but looks confident and doing his job says this wackey Jackets commentator

[Rooster]

Originally posted by CoRvInA

as of the first period Hainsey has one shot on goal .. plus two blocked shots... and 5;39 min on Ice Eventime only of course

nothing spectacular but looks confident and doing his job says this wackey Jackets commentator

Damn, he's gonna be a star plus he's sooooooo good looking. How could we have let him get away

[redondo]

I don't think you can call Hainsey a flop just yet. D-men take longer to mature then forwards, and there are plenty of players who get their shit together later rather than sooner.

Now I'm not saying Hollywood Hainsey is the next Norris winner, but it's entirely possible that he develops into a decent player. To my knowledge his play has improved this year in the AHL, and like someone said, yeah we could've used him last nite.

[Mark Napier]

I never said Hainsey would be a star but I always believed he had more upside than Streit and think he still will be a pretty good dman. Streit I'm afraid looks like a babe lost in the woods in this league and I don't see him getting any better. This is Gainey's worst mistake so far as GM. Letting go Hossa was necessary to keep our current roster. At the time it was a good move but who would of predicted that Dagenais would be this useless. Still it's not as bad as losing Hainsey because Hossa is not that great. Does anyone really miss this guy? He started great for the Rags but as I predicted he disappeared since then. Hainsey is still young and as someone mentioned, dmen take longer to develop. We could really use him right now. Under these circumstances he really could had a chance to developed an NHL game. Oh well....