Fezz Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 What about Brent Sutter? Just a thought, But I don't want Julien fired, he's a good coach...may seems like he has favorites or just bad lines...but I think he's just sorting it all out and see who plays best with who. I say we keep Julien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 (edited) Tony and Fanpuck We see eye to eye. Julien needs to learn how to coach rookies. Although I know he is a good coach he has done fairly well this year he does not know how to instil confidence and he does not understand that confidence breed’s confidence. I remember watching Bowman coach Datsyk and Zetterberg in Detroit and they would make huge blunders, such as turnovers when they were the last man back to terrible late unnecessary penalty’s and almost ever single time after a brief discussion on the bench they were the very next players over the boards. K Rex Zhog anyone who is getting benched for a single blunder will when they are on the ice grip the stick harder, over think and not play their games of course they are nervous out there and will continue to make the same mistakes unless Julien (COACHES THEM and tells them what they are supposed to do) But not only that they must be given the opportunity to redeem themselves. The interesting thing about this is that one of Julien's main strengths was considered to be knowing how to work with kids, knowing how to help them become better. Montreal had to get Edmonton's permission to talk to him so as to hire him. Julien was in the Oiler's organization when he coached in Hamilton. Under him, Hamilton became a powerhouse a few years running in the AHL. I can remember the talk at the time of his hiring that he was going to be just what the team needed because the young guns were just chomping at the bit to come to the big team. I don't know what his tactics were when he was in Hamilton but it seems to have worked. Yes, he may have had the players to work with but he WAS ABLE to work with them. I don't know if he's still doing the same thing or not. I don't know if he's changed because of changed expectations or pressures... I don't know. I do know that I'm probably as frustrated as many of you with regards to the use of the rookies. I look at the rookies on other teams (Calgary, Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Washington, Toronto, etc...) and I hear of them having more regular ice time. Could be I'm wrong but what the heck... that's my humble opinion. :king: :hlogo: :king: (1 to go) Edited January 2, 2006 by shortcat1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsmaddad Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 It's not only CJ's use or mis-use of the rookies. Our style of play, which is set by the coach, is ineffective. Our power play lacks imagination. Our players seem to lack proper motivation. And those damn "too many men" penalties. I have no stat to back it up, but I suspect we may lead the NHL in this department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) If I learned anything in all the years I've followed hockey, is that no matter how close and detailed you think you can follow a team and form opinions; you never know everything about a situation and therefore you can never really come up with a fair conclusion. We dont know what's going on between CJ and his staff, or between CJ and Gainey. Coaches dont take 100% of the decisions, and they dont have 100% freedom to do what they want. There's always plenty of off-ice things we dont know about that factor in the on-ice results. Who knows if CJ wouldnt like to use his rookies more but can't for X or Y reasons? Who knows if CJ wouldn't want to bench of scratch certain veterans but can't because of X or Y reason? Who knows which are the objectives set by Gainey to which CJ has to subject his coaching style to? Who knows if some veterans haven't set out to get CJ's head, or if some cliques are not ruining CJ's efforts? Who knows if CJ can't stand player X or Y but can't do anything that would lower his trade value because Gainey wants to show him off to other teams? I could go on and on, but I think you'll get the idea. Its never as simple as it looks. Sometimes you're stuck with a bum or two you can't stand but have to play because no one else wants him, he's got a big 1-way contract and your rookies are not developped enough to replace them full time. I'm sure the other guys in HWL will probably understand. Edited January 3, 2006 by KoZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 If I learned anything in all the years I've followed hockey, is that no matter how close and detailed you think you can follow a team and form opinions; you never know everything about a situation and therefore you can never really come up with a fair conclusion. We dont know what's going on between CJ and his staff, or between CJ and Gainey. Coaches dont take 100% of the decisions, and they dont have 100% freedom to do what they want. There's always plenty of off-ice things we dont know about that factor in the on-ice results. Who knows if CJ wouldnt like to use his rookies more but can't for X or Y reasons? Who knows if CJ wouldn't want to bench of scratch certain veterans but can't because of X or Y reason? Who knows which are the objectives set by Gainey to which CJ has to subject his coaching style to? Who knows if some veterans haven't set out to get CJ's head, or if some cliques are not ruining CJ's efforts? Who knows if CJ can't stand player X or Y but can't do anything that would lower his trade value because Gainey wants to show him off to other teams? I could go on and on, but I think you'll get the idea. Its never as simple as it looks. Sometimes you're stuck with a bum or two you can't stand but have to play because no one else wants him, he's got a big 1-way contract and your rookies are not developped enough to replace them full time. I'm sure the other guys in HWL will probably understand. Super perspective, KoZed. The weakness with our opinions is that they are based upon insufficient knowledge. It's sort of like when my son used to ask me if the North American Free Trade Agreement was a good thing or a bad thing. What the heck could I say? Did I know enough about the issue to make a wise judgement? NOT! The same applies here. Yes, we can give our opinions and our perspectives but to go from there and believe that we are sufficiently knowledgable so that these opinions or perspectives are the answers to the Canadiens' problem, is rather naive at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 But this is exactly our point... come up with our Hypothesis or even assumptions... we can assume ... and dont start with the make an ass out of u and me thing... hehe I just would like to get something clear here... as soon as a Coach benches someone you basically get 3 lines right... with some consfusion you can get a mix in two line so you sort of juggle 3 and 1/2 lines but when your team consists of so many rooks and they sort of play everywhere and nowhere at the same time again (if no trade is upcoming) what is the point??? ... My theory has been that BG has been working his ASS off in trying to trade someone... and we all know who that is!! ( for at least a couple of months... and in the process has had to sacrifice (with Julien getting pissed off) the rest of the team and Rooks more so! Now the move on Perez tells me CJ has alot more leverage than I thought he would have, or on the other hand BG is letting him blow some steam before his head Explodes in dispair! Yes by writing this I look more in dispair than I am but its fun just to write about it and isnt this forum just about this? Personally I am confident our begining season was not a freak accident ... we're gonna make the playoffs and we'll get a couple of players come trade deadline ( kovalev style ) and we'll surprise a many in the process! GO HABS GO :ghg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsterr Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) Having watched every single Habs game this year, I am now of the mind that Mr. Julien is in deep trouble as a coach and the players as a whole are not the main problem. We started the year looking very organized, fast, smart, and had a super puck control/speed game. Since those first 15 games or so, what we have now is a team that -looks terribly disorganized- -the jump and speed we had at the beginning is now gone -players look tentative. -our D tends to back up and give the blue line to the opposition -Our forwards have trouble through the neutral zone with puck control -We rarely carry the puck over the opposing teams blueline -Consistently lose battles along the boards -Lose at the end of games - players don't look motivated All this points to the coach and a lack of a system that is working. Mr. Julien looks to be out-coached on regular occasions. Take those dreaded Laffs for instance. Their squad is no better than the Habs on paper. Yet they lost by far their best player in Sundin for the very first 5 weeks or so, but they still hung in and now are past the Habs. They have a coach who can adapt and has a better understanding for the new NHL. Not sure how a patient man like Gainey will react to this. He can wait things out. Maybe he knows things that we just aren't privy to. Or he can make a change, but of course there has to be an NHL calibre coach available to step in. Very worried indeed. Edited January 5, 2006 by Habsterr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 At the end of the Pens game, CJ said enough is enough. Too many players taking risks when they shouldn't players not following the game plan. My perception is that the Habs have too many players that think they are wonderful. Players that think they know better and do their own thing. I want those players replaced first. If that doesn't fix the problem then CJ needs to go. The team mentality needs to hit our players and the superstar attitude needs to walk out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsterr Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 In all due respect PM Koivu (and yes I will vote for you), the job of the coach is get the players on page, all together, with the same team goals and system. HE is the one who has to motivate them. HE is the one that has to figure out what makes each player tick and get them all going in the same direction. HE has to motivate them. Sorry PMK, but that IS HIS JOB. Don't you think the Leafs have big ego players. Hot headed players. Players who think they are better than others. But their coach undertsands that his job description entails him motivating those guys in to one system. Getting together as a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Professionals can keep their ego in check for the greater good of the team. Some people can't or won't. Sometimes people refuse to be lead. If a worker continually disobeys his/her boss what happens? -they get fired, not the boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Why is there more than one topic about the same thing... Hey guys before making one why dont you take 30 seconds of your time and read what other topics are about! perhaps there's one about the same freakin thing! Oops look there's one called "time to fire a coach" could it be a smilar topic? And to save you some time ... whoever started this thread RDS says your blowing hot air! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsterr Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Time to fire a coach is, I believe, in regards to Melanson and not Julien. I am not posting this in reply to an RDS article or anything else. I am just giving my opinion. Pure and simple. PMK, Hey how many times do you see a coach getting terribly frustated after such a loooong bad streak. It looks to me like he's lost control and the confidence of his players and is at his wits end. Hey, you may be right, but firing a coach is often times easier and gets the message across easier than gutting a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 100% Correct. When teams lose, and aren't listening to their coaches..The coach is fired. You can't fire 20 players, but you can fire one coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Time to fire a coach is, I believe, in regards to Melanson and not Julien. I am not posting this in reply to an RDS article or anything else. I am just giving my opinion. Pure and simple. PMK, Hey how many times do you see a coach getting terribly frustated after such a loooong bad streak. It looks to me like he's lost control and the confidence of his players and is at his wits end. Hey, you may be right, but firing a coach is often times easier and gets the message across easier than gutting a team. That Time to fire a coach has already turned to Julien and previous to that one! there's Claude Julien: Keep'em or Fire'em and RDS wrote about Gainey signing Julien for 3 years meaning he aint going nowhere ... there I had to repeat myself again! god ^%@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) At the end of the Pens game, CJ said enough is enough. Too many players taking risks when they shouldn't players not following the game plan. And this is exactly Julien's problem. He keeps yelling defense when the Habs have one of the worst offensive stats in the league. Our team (under him) doesn't know how to play offense. (Just look at some of the other teams in our zone and compare them to how we play in their zone.) Julien insists on trying to play a brain dead defensive system that was only mildly successful in the old NHL. His system needs holding and hooking to work. Our boys are getting killed trying to play his system in the new NHL. Contrast this to Pat Quinn, who made the necessary adjustments (admittedly after a few weeks of some intense crying). Our players *are* trying, they *are* working hard. (Ribs was quoted in today's Gazette as saying he was working very hard.) The system doesn't work, pure and simple. We have the talent necessary to compete. We have the rules in place that should allow this team to do quite well. All we need is a coach who can properly use this talent (and not Jarvis!!!) (We also need Theodore to re-discover his game.) - Jack PS I would *love* Brent Sutter as a coach. Not going to happen - can't speak French. Edited January 5, 2006 by jackp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Juliens system was working in the beginning of the year with a full roster. Give the guy a break he was trying to ice a team with Ribero being the #1 centre. This team will rebound with the health we now have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsterr Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Juliens system was working in the beginning of the year with a full roster. Give the guy a break he was trying to ice a team with Ribero being the #1 centre. This team will rebound with the health we now have. I would believe you but the team, as a whole, has looked sloppy, disorganized.... O.k., takeaway Koivu, Kovalev and even Markov. That's no reason to look terrible. Maybe not win as many sure. Maybe not be able to score as often, but they just look plain BAD. In so many areas as mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Only Florida and Washington have scored less goals than Montreal. Hard to claim that the offensive system works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I expect some sort of a shake up is coming. Don't know what the number will be on the Richter scale but there will be some shaking that'll happen. Nevertheless, the shaking may already have happened or may already be in the process of happening. As you all know, Ribeiro & Dagenais were healthy scratches for last game. The itch may continue if the replacement players (Kostsitsyn & Ferland) continue to play like they did. I'm not saying that K & F will replace R & D but they may be just what the doctor prescribed to motivate R & D to do what's needed. (I expect that K & F will return to Hamilton not too long from now. They will have had a very healthy taste of the bigs and will want to return, want to return BIG TIME.) Again, as many of you know, last season, Ribeiro was scratched for a game or two for not listening to Julien about ice time. He stayed on the ice longer than he was supposed to. After the 'time out', he came back with quite a few more pistons firing. The same thing may happen again. At the very least, I hope so. So, the shake up is either on or on the way. I expect that, if the first doesn't do it, another one will come and the Richter scale will be much higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Du calme du calme... I didnt watch the game... but mind ya These Devils are nothing like the ones that started 30 games ago! Elias has brought alot of energy to their game ... if it had finsiehd 5 2 then yes ... 5 4 aint too bad with an injured Brodeur even! Now lets keep the puking after Saturday! Ottawa Hopefully without Ribs (who probably will play) hope not...so as just to focus on the less amount of vets as possible so Gainey and CJ can make the picture even more clear! of where to start the reconstructive surgery! This is an illment that can be cured but we gotta be 100% sure where the metastasis has spread too! dont wanna amputate parts that are healthy! Lets talk again saturday night Cheers Yall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_glorieux Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 We need a good showing on Saturday. Not necessarily a win. But a strong game. If we fail to show up for three periods on Saturday, it will officially time to push the panic button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habber Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 The problem here is not Julien it's Jose Theodore. How frustrating was it Tues to be outshooting the lowly Penguins a million to two yet the score was 2-0 Pens. What about tonite...they come out flying, score on their first shift yet the Devils score on their first shot. Theodore has gotta go!!! How frustrating is that. Move him and let's see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsterr Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 The problem here is not Julien it's Jose Theodore. How frustrating was it Tues to be outshooting the lowly Penguins a million to two yet the score was 2-0 Pens. What about tonite...they come out flying, score on their first shift yet the Devils score on their first shot. Theodore has gotta go!!! How frustrating is that. Move him and let's see what happens. Brodeur let in his first shot as well. Don't hear about theDevils letting him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 True very true. But the Devils only have 2,000 fans as you can see from the attendance at the game last night. Also what else is funny is Theo had a better save percentage last night. But in the most important goaltending stat Marty dominated. HE WON THE GAME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habschris Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Perhaps you guys should look at the quality of scoring chances against Theo, rather then just the total number of shots. The habs only came out flying for about 3o seconds, they were totally dominated the rest of the night. What did they have, a total of 20 shots or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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