Koivu being kept out of lineup?

[Habs77]

from Jonesey at FLR:

in fact Demers reported just before the game that Koivu had been healthy for the past 2 games. He also said the other day Saku wasn't just mad, he was plain and simply furious, Alain Crete corroborated and he isn't the only one who witnessed it.  

Demers thinks something is brewing in the background but he's not sure what it is. He does find the situation somewhat peculiar, from what he said, I gathered he thought someone was being shopped around and had to be displayed.

Many reporters in the city have said Saku has looked 100% in practice since last week. Many of them smell something fishy and they're all wondering why Saku isn't in the line up yet. Some said if the Habs had been on a losing streak he would already be in there.

Demers has jumped the gun in the past, but this time it's more than just one guy who thinks something is brewing in the background.

Add to that the Primeau rumor, and then even some Comrie talk... and what you have is a lot of talk that Gainey might be looking to deal sooner rather than later.

[Habsaku]

Probably, but I don't think Koivu is going to be involved in the deal. To me theres only one player who's really on the bubble and has some value: Yannic Perreaul. He's not a Gainey type of player, no energy, invisible, bad skater and one hell of a softie.

[huzer]

Interesting, I would think that Perreault is also potentially on the bubble. As far as Primeau goes, though, he comes with a mighty hefty price tag (around $5M, I believe). It doesn't seem like Gainey would trade for a guy whom I would assume would be a 3rd line center, at 31, who is making that kind of $$.

Maybe Chicago, but would the Habs get in return?

[ch_nl]

If Koivu is on the block I'd bet my shorts on that the Wild was intrested.

1. They could unite Big brother Koivu with Mikko.

2. Marion Gaborik doesn't play for them and don't wants to sign.

3. If Gaborik could sign with Montreal we could have Zednik and Gaborik (both Slovakians) on the wings centered by Mike Ribeiro.

This would solve some problems... But Koivu is Koivu after all. There would be an enormous pressure on Gaborik if the trade come true.

I can't make up my mind... Anybody else?

[Bonavistaman11]

I've got a job to believe that Koivu has been a healthy scratch.

With the crazy media in Montreal something would have been out in the public before now.

Thats my opinion anyway.

But if they do trade him they'd better get something better then Primeau or Comrie.

:ghg:

[Natural Mystic]

well, i dont want them to trade him...but montreal is playing good right now. And yeah i agree...if they do...its a big IF, they should get someone big

[ch_nl]

I have tought about it...

And I would love to see Gaborik in Montreal. Even if the price is Koivu.

Imagine Gaborik - Ribeiro - Zednik. That's what I call a high octane line.

But it would be a tough move to make. But Roy got traded...

Here's reason why I think that this actually could happen.

1. Montreal needs to trim the roster. Ribs and Koivu are the same type of player.

2. The team is doing well without Koivu.

3. Saku Koivu younger brother Mikko Koivu belongs to Minnesota Wild.

4. Koivu isn't getting younger. He's 29 and Gaborik 21. That should fit Habs plan.

5. Wild are weak on the center.

6. The salary is about the same.

7. Many complaints about Habs size...

Gaborik: 6'1 and 183

Koivu: 5'1 and 180

8. Zednik is Slovakian. So is Gaborik. Sometimes is means a lot to have a native in the locker-room. (Take a look at Markus Näslund)

9. Minnesota has Antti Laaksonen and Zholtok. They both know Saku.

10. It's not our division. It's not our conference.

11. Mario Tremblay is the assistant coach of the Wild.

12. Lemaire. Don't know about his realation with Koivu but I do think that they know each other.

[Chuko]

ch_nl, all of your points are valid and are good ones. Nothing is impossible, but I would be surprised if Minnesota traded a 21 year old star (or future star) for a 29 year old injury prone player. The Wild would likely want a good young prospect or a high draft pick on top of Koivu to make that deal.

That being said, I would love to see Gaborik in Montreal and would certainly offer more than just Koivu to get him.

[Habsaku]

I have tought about it...  

And I would love to see Gaborik in Montreal. Even if the price is Koivu.  

Imagine Gaborik - Ribeiro - Zednik. That's what I call a high octane line.  

But it would be a tough move to make. But Roy got traded...  

Here's reason why I think that this actually could happen.  

1. Montreal needs to trim the roster. Ribs and Koivu are the same type of player.  

2. The team is doing well without Koivu.  

3. Saku Koivu younger brother Mikko Koivu belongs to Minnesota Wild.  

4. Koivu isn't getting younger. He's 29 and Gaborik 21. That should fit Habs plan.  

5. Wild are weak on the center.  

6. The salary is about the same.  

7. Many complaints about Habs size...  

Gaborik: 6'1 and 183  

Koivu: 5'1 and 180  

8. Zednik is Slovakian. So is Gaborik. Sometimes is means a lot to have a native in the locker-room. (Take a look at Markus Näslund)  

9. Minnesota has Antti Laaksonen and Zholtok. They both know Saku.  

10. It's not our division. It's not our conference.  

11. Mario Tremblay is the assistant coach of the Wild.  

12. Lemaire. Don't know about his realation with Koivu but I do think that they know each other.  

1. Koivu is faster and experienced, he also shows up everynight. Perreault is also similar in the fact that he's small.

2. The team will do better with Koivu.

3. This is a bad argument, trading just to reunite brothers doesn't work often. Do you see the Senators rushing to get Hossa?

4. This makes no sense IMO, we have lots of young players on the wing(Kastsitsyn, Perezhogin, Ryder, Bulis, Ward, Zednik, Hossa, Higgins) , but no one at center, why trade our only energetic and gritty center? And i think the Wild are close to signing him, rds.com

5. So are we

6. Lets wait fot the signing ok? Why wouldnt the wild try to get a cheaper and younger player? Gaborik could easily get that.

7. Gaborik is taller, but about the same weight(says a lot about his muscle mass), like a toothpick.

8. Or it can divide the room ala last year or like the Leafs.

9. Berezin knew Perreault even more, look where it get us. a lot of players know Koivu, does that mean every GM will try to get him for that reason?

10.good point

11. this is a laughable argument, do you think GMs trade because of ass. coaches?

12. Dont know, dont talk, ok?

Why would Gainey trade a guy he just signed over the summer? Why would he bench him instead of showcasing him? Why would he trade our capatain, our best player, our do it all player? Why would he trade the only guy who's a sure value at our weakest position???

Why didn't he trade him during the summer after his best season instead of early in the season when he got injured? Gainey said he would evaluate his players first, benching and trading doesnt fit in that, its not his type of move.

Why would he choose that over trading a veteran(older then Koivu) he didn't sign, who floats, who's slow, who's soft, who's small, who's overpaid , whos at the end of his contract, whos highly inconsistent??? It makes absolutly no sense at all. Perreault is gone soon, accept it.

[Edited on 2003/10/22 by Habsaku]

[ch_nl]

He's no good to Minnesota as long as he won't play.

Throw in a draft pick. We have talanted player. Let's develop them.

Right now I wish that a thing like this could happen. I even start to think that Saku might like it.

[Habsaku]

He's no good to Minnesota as long as he won't play.  

Throw in a draft pick. We have talanted player. Let's develop them.  

What the hell does developping players have to do with anything???Who are we developping by trading Koivu instead of Perreault?? And if you add a winger, who do you think be sent down? A vet? Its gonna be Hossa, so in fact, you are not at all developping. Whos gonna be your 2nd center after this year? Perreault? So well keep our great soft 1-2 punch of 5'5' 120 pound centers who play smaller? Whos gonna be your captain? Rivet and his misplaced comments? Quintal, a guy in his last year who could be benched or traded?

Oh and by the way: Check the 2nd headline, www.rds.ca

This thread has been garbage, at least try something more creative like trying to get Lecavalier or a young center like that. Only then would Koivu, a young payer and a pick would be worth it and make actual sense.

I even start to think that Saku might like it

Ok my friend you have said it all :clap: .

[Edited on 2003/10/22 by Habsaku]

[ch_nl]

Habssaku... Alway against me...

1. I said that Ribs and Koivu are the same type of players. I'm saying that Ribs could replace Koivu.

We pleased with having Bulis, Kilger, Juneau and Perreault as back-up centres.

2. Last time when Habs raced for the cup in the playoffs Saku was in hospotal.

Saku Koivu is a very good hockey-player and helps the team that he's on. But so would Gaborik. And yeah, I'd choose Gaborik.

3. I am aware of that. But Mikko is still in Åbo. Maybe it would be easier for him to move over the ocean if his brother was waiting?

4. .....

5. We could use another high-scoring winger...

6. He was offered. He didn't take iw. Wild management says that there's no more money to offer. Gaborik says he won't play for less.

7. What's wrong? How can you say that Gaborik is like a toothpick? Saku is made of glass...

8. Errr... What? In what way were the Habs locker-room divided by nationalities last year?`

9. That's not a reason why the Wild would like to have Koivu. But I think it would be easier for Koivu to be traded to a team where I knows somebody.

10. Yup.

11. No but maybe Tremblay have some good things to say about Saku Koivu...

12. Think I've heard somewhere that Lemaire is a huge fan of Koivu.

[Habs77]

Btw guys, if the post I copied here to start the thread it suggests that Koivu was being kept out of the lineup in order to showcase someone who was playing at the moment.

You can't shop around someone that's on the IR and hasn't played all year. IMO with Koivu's injury history, plus the cancer angle... he's pretty damn near untradeable if you ask me.

What GM would give up anything of value for a guy that can't stay healthy and has cancer? I just don't see it.

The point of the article was that one or more of the people on the top 2 lines were being shopped, and delaying Koivu's return was allowing these players to stay on the top lines while Gainey was trying to trade him or them.

Audette is untradeable IMO, Ryder is a keeper.

So that leaves Perreault, Ribeiro, Hossa, Zednik... I left Zednik there but that's unlikely.

So it's probably Perreault, Ribeiro, or Hossa.

According to this rumor anyway... it's only a rumor that Koivu was being held out for this purpose.

So just to be clear I repeat, this rumor is not suggesting that Koivu is being shopped around.

[Habsaku]

Habssaku... Alway against me...  

I have absolutly nothing personnal against, I don't mind your comments at all, in fact it gives me a reason to reply.

I'm just the type of person who can't stand floaters and softies, no matter what the excuse or the scoresheet. I believe these types of players might get you to the playoffs but not farther(Yashin). Koivu despite his size has always battled in corners and crashed the net while Perreault has always been soft and a floater. I can't stand that, theres no leadership or abilities in that. And because of all the arguments I previously told you, I can't imagine Gainey doing a trade like that unless you would get the big physicall talented center we lack to become contenders in a few years(we got good depth everywhere but at center). Juneau, Bulis, Kilger, Perreault will never amount to anything remotly like Koivu or even be more then 3rd line centers, they will not help us become contenders, so adding a winger which we have plenty of is not logical at all. I'd expect nothing less but a big 80-90 points physicall center a la Allison if Koivu were to be traded.

Btw guys, if the post I copied here to start the thread it suggests that Koivu was being kept out of the lineup in order to showcase someone who was playing at the moment.  

I think that was obvious, but many people don't understand the fact you don't bench players to trade them

[Edited on 2003/10/22 by Habsaku]

[Bonavistaman11]

Great battle guys!!

:ghg:

[ch_nl]

I can understand your point.

But there is one BIG example when soft players with skill took the cup from the biggest team in the leauge.

Remember the finals between the Red Wings and Flyers.

Flyers had Legion of Doom with Lindros, LeClair and Renberg. Alla over 100 kg.

Red Wings had Fedorov, Kozlov and Larionov.

I think Red Wings won the series cuz they had the best balance. They could afford to have Larionov on the first line cuz they had Maltby and McCarthy on the second.

I don't think Niclas Lidström ever been tackled. But he's the Norris.... Balance is important.

That's why i want Perreault to stay. We knows what he will give us and his salary is OK. So don't trade the winning horse.

[Habsaku]

Yes but you we can also argue the fact that Fedorov, Larionov and Koslov brought much more then Perreault could ever do.

Fedorov is an unreal talent with exceptionnal speed, playmaking, shooting and defense. At 6'2", hes hardly a midget.

Larionov is a great leader who, even that old, was still more skilled then Perreault.

Koslov was a winger, not a 2nd line center. Larionov doesn't have to hit, he can play the body better then 95% of the defensemen and he makes exceptionnal passes. Ever seen Perreault do any of those? Don't compare 3rd line centers to hall of fame defensemen.

These three players we're fast, intense and their skills weren't limited to shooting and faceoffs.

These three players can get noticed in a game, they can cut a defensemen, they can also play with a lot of energy. Thats not what I call soft.

Soft is when you back down from physicall play: Perreault.

These players also got 70 points at least once, actually Perreaults best season isn't half of what Fedorov had in his best. That comparison does not work. The wings had players who worked hard and were very talented.

[Edited on 2003/10/22 by Habsaku]

[Edited on 2003/10/22 by Habsaku]

[ch_nl]

Acutally Kozlov played on the first line. Larionov was center and Fedorov played defence and winger...

I don't say that Perreault could be compared with Fedorov. (Fedorov is the best player in the leauge in my opinion)

I'm just saying that big muscles doesn't mean that you win.

Look at our team right now. With "softies" like Perreault we are in the top.

Right now the Canadiens only have one problem. We have to many NHL-caliber players.

And... Since I don't live in Montreal nor Canada nor America I don't see things from the Quebec perspective.

Some times that makes me unable to understand why some players doesn't click when they are put on a red, white and blue jersey.

Like Sundström. Like Berezin. Like Czerkawski.

I think that Sundström is one of the most underrated players in the NHL. But maybe Montreal isn't the right place for him. Like Berezin. Like Czerkawski.

Maybe that's why Canadiens should stick to Quebec born players who understand and are WANTS to play for the Habs. To me it's a mystery that Super Mario doesn't end his career in Montreal... But that's my Swedish, European way of thinking.

That's also the reason why I can live with soft players. (I think)

And as I see it we have 1 third line center. Juneau. And we have 1 first line center. Koivu. But we also have 1 first/second line center in Ribs.

We have one first line winger in Zednik and a lot of second and third line wingers.

And I'm not in love with Saku Koivu. Actually I really hated him 95 when the Finns stole the World Championship before my eyes in Stockholm. And I wasn't to happy when Canadiens took him...

But something has to be done and I really don't see why Canadiens shouldn't concidser trading Koivu. I don't think that anybody should be untouchable. Not Koivu. Not Perreault. But in a trade both parts need to win. And thats harder with Perreault than Koivu in my opinion.