The Chicoutimi Cucumber

+1. Like I always say, there are TWO Scott Gomezes - the guy from last year, and the guy from every year before that. The haters sometimes like to obscure the difference, just as they like to pretend that he is supposed to be a goal scorer, then use his tiny goals-scored totals as proof of his worthlessness. But the Gomez prior to 2010-11 is a bloody good playmaker and rushing forward, a real asset, even if his salary is ridiculous.

Well, they're a 'lot' better if he plays the way he did for four or five games before he got hurt. I think that's fair to say. But that's another big 'if.'

Look, the separatists are desperate. Their two parties (BQ and PQ) are both in total disarray, outpolled by a tired and possibly corrupt government and a bizarre new party led by an uncharismatic, recycled Péquiste whose only contribution is a promise to shelve the whole issue for 10 years. That they have been reduced to trying to mobilize the population against the hiring of Randy Cunneyworth in order to revive their cause is a measure of how pathetic their situation has become. To quote Pierre Trudeau: "This bunch of snivellers should simply have been sent packing and told to stop to stop having tantrums like spoiled adolescents."

Oh yeah, superstar players like Orr, Gretzky, Morenz, Richard, and Gomez make everyone else better

Well, Pleks has earned the benefit of the doubt. His struggles probably have more to do with either loss of confidence, fatigue from overuse, or injury, than from laziness or bad attitude, which are characteristics of which he has never shown the slightest sign. The other possibility is a 'chemistry' problem (i.e., he is at loggerheads with one or more teammates).

Oh, I agree that he has stunk out the joint this season. But I also think that it's silly to throw away a player based on one bad season, let alone 35 games. It reminds me of when Habs fans were happy to ride Recchi out of town (which Houle proceeded to do) because he had foolishly tried to play through pnuemonia and consequently had a horrific half-season in 1998-99. You have to look at the bigger picture. Cammy has proven that he can produce at an elite level in the NHL. If you look at his career stats, you see that when he has been healthy, as he was in 06-07 and 08-09, he is easily a 30-goal scorer and a PPG player. He does struggle with injuries, though his first year with us had him again on a pace for 30+ goals. He is also deadly playoff performer. I think Cammalleri's time with us has been marred by his obvious dislike of Jacques Martin's system. It's telling that the gung-ho positive energy he projected in his first season here evaporated after the pro-Martin camp led by Gill and Gorges had clearly carried the day. He has also been hurt by injuries, as noted above, and also by the loss of Markov, whose power-play skills were a major reason he came here in the first place. He himself says his game thrives on a good puck-distributor on the PP (although now that Kaberle is here that excuse has run out). True, his defensive game is questionable and his physical play non-existent. But that is fairly typical of goal-scorers. If you're looking for a complementary player of the 'sniper' variety, Cammy remains an elite player of his type. If you can't get more than a lower first-rounder for him then you're probably better off keeping him around. He is certainly as good or better than a 20th-overall pick is likely to be.

I agree re: Kostitysn, but a 20th overall pick is pathetic value for Cammalleri.

Emelin is really growing into the role. The way he sent Malone flying, that's rare. Despite my early-season scepticism this guy could indeed emerge as a major defensive force and one feared SOB on the blueline. I missed the apparently horrible first period. The game I saw was one in which we basically dominated for 40 minutes. Having Gio back and Eller playing with such verve really helps, as does the return of MaxPac to something resembling an NHL hockey player. If we keep playing this way, we just might rattle off the big winning streak that the optimists have been desperately hoping for. Meanwhile: can someone please tell me what the big deal is about Guy Boucher? This guy's getting zero from a loaded offensive team that can't play D. If they miss the playoffs, I fire him and bring in - you guessed it - Jacques Martin. And I'm not sure I'd be in any race to hire him were I Gauthier.

Habs29 is right about the contract. It would be dumb to move huge assets to get a guy who could be gone in one year. Now, sometimes teams acquire a guy and immediately lock him up, presumably having had discussions with his agent prior to finalizing the trade. That's another matter. Getzlaf is close but not quite a 'franchise player.' We're not talking Crosby or Ovechkin here. He is, however, easily a point-per-game guy and if we put him with, say, MaxPac or Cammy he's gonna keep putting up those kind of points. But that's one reason why he's a tricky trading foil - to get him you might have to move the very players who you need in order to get the most out of him. That, or Subban plus. Habsy's right, too. We can get value back for guys like Cammalleri. However, Cammy's value will vary by team. If the Ducks are looking to rebuild, then he's not what they want. Conversely, a San Jose would probably be very interested in this proven playoff performer who will surely flourish playing with their top C and with Boyle on the PP. LA might also be interested. Basically, teams with designs on the Cup, not rebuilders.

The problem is that if you move Plex we STILL end up with only one legitimate top-6 centreman. Sure, Getzlaf is an upgrade. But the idea is not to have a #1A and then a bunch of #3s. If you want to really make this a team to be feared, you need a #1A in front of Pleks. Imagine the impact of rolling Pleks out as a 2nd liner and you see what I mean. Teams would reel from the Getzlaf-Plekanec duo. To acquire a Getzlaf, think high picks, MaxPac, Cammy, Eller, plus secondary elements like Weber - in some combination.

Remember when MaxPac had to apologize for a tweet about the length of Marchand's nose? This Barch thing could go either way. 1 game covers the base without being over the top about it.

Nash...great player, horrible cap hit. $8 mil!!

I'd move anyone except Subban or Price, and probably MaxPac, to get Getzlaf. If he were locked up long-term, or if talk with his agent confirmed the likelihood of locking him up, then I'd be OK with moving MaxPac. I would trade ONE first-round pick plus other assers if, again, Getzlaf were locked up. The Kessel trade involved two first-rounders plus a 2nd-rounder (!) and that was pretty suspect. Note, though, that Kessel has become as good a player as you can reasonably expect to get with a first-round pick, so that deal turned out to be far better than it initially looked for TO. It helps that the Prunes dealt away one of the first-rounders for a player that everybody knows is a worthless piece of human garbage who will destroy our franchise for years to come, i.e., Kaberle. But would I do the same trade for Kessel - two first-rounders + a second? Probably not. I don't quite get the 'cap space' argument. If you move good assets to get Getzlaf, you presumably intend to lock him up long-term. That's gonna cost a huge sum, Gomez-ish numbers at least. Getzlaf represents a cap 'deal' (and he still costs $5.3 mil) for one year only.

Yeah, but I don't see trading Subban myself. I'm a mite nervous about the discourse that seems to be emerging around Subban. The RDS guys were slagging him last night for his bad attitude, for taking excessively long shifts, etc. - basically for being a punk. Meanwhile, he has had the predictable sophomore slum so trading him suddenly seems conceivable. I'm getting a faint whiff of the 'Dion Phaneuf' syndrome, where there's a possibility that young stud defenceman eventually gets moved because the team/city/fans are fed up with his maturation process instead of cooly riding it out. PK has a realistic chance to become our Shea Weber; he is close to untouchable to my mind, especially for a guy who could become UFA in a year. Admittedly Getzlaf would be a ferocious return. But deal Subban for him and then you have a hole on the blueline just as big as the hole currently at C. And geez, throwing in Pleks and Kristo? Then you just create a NEW hole at C AND lose a decent prospect to boot. I agree that we should be looking at Anaheim. But be careful what you wish for. Cammalleri should clearly be the centrepiece of any big trade we're looking to make.

Brobin, I think the idea that he will emerge as a top-6 C, while not unrealistic - he was considered a 'blue chip' prospect when we got him and has certainly shown flashes of elite talent - is a pleasant notion and a natural one for fans after the 5-point game last night. We need positives and the hope that Eller might emerge as a quality offensive centreman gives us hope. I think everybody realizes this is not a sure thing. Still, if he doesn't emerge as at least a decent second-line C eventually over the next couple of years, I for one will be disappointed. I never saw him as a 40-point checking centreman myself.

I hear ya, but let's remember how great Gomez looked before his groin injury. There's still two Gomezes - the guy from 2010-11, who is awful, and the guy from every season prior to that, who is a damned good player (albeit still grossly overpaid). I doubt we'll ever see the latter guy again. but still,he's an X-factor.

It's hard to know what Plekanec's problem is these days.

I agree that most so-called analysts don't analyze, they just offer shallow commentary that reflects dominant opinion - which in turn is usually shallow as hell. However, there is a reason for thinking this organization is in shambles, and it has less to do with the on-ice performance than with -the weirdness of firing Pearn and then getting around to firing Martin later -the strong suspicion that the Martin firing was driven by ownership interference -the total bungling of the language issue, especially Molson's idiotic declaration that Cunneyworth was basically a lame duck - another case of detrimental ownership interference -the inability of the firing to have any effect on the losing -the acquisition of Kaberle, a good deal in my books, but one that 'dominant opinion' (see above) frames as incompetent -the signing of Markov to a three-year, high-dollar deal -the basic unlikeability of Gauthier 'A franchise in shambles' is shorthand for all this. You're correct about our underlying strengths, though. If we can build on those instead of blowing them up, we'll be fine going forward.

I love this comment. It gives me hope!

Yeah, unlike that paragon of respect, CBC's beloved Brad Marchand. I don't want to make too much of this, but it's mildly interesting that the Habs have managed to deliver two blowouts in their last four games. It's slightly hard to imagine that happening under Martin; but is it a hopeful sign of a team about to take a step forward, or just an aberration against teams caught napping in the mid-season doldrums? The way this year's gone, my dough is on the latter.

Another game thread, another impending loss - caused by a third-period collapse to boot, no doubt. Orr, why the hell not.

I'm with Commandant. This team is much better than it has shown. So the plan should be to trade away Kostitsyn if he does not want to sign, and various spare parts and veterans whose value to us in, say, two years will be minimal to nonexistent (Gill, Campoli, Weber, maybe Moen). Of the current 'core' the only ones I'd be actively interested in moving would be Gomez, Kosty and perhaps Cammalleri - the first for obvious reasons, the second because he's a UFA and the latter because he effectively betrayed the organization by quitting on Martin. With a guy like Gio, I listen to offers, but plan on keeping him. You retool with youth acquired in the moderate sell-off, sign new players to fill vacancies, and try to be good next season with an eye to being great thereafter. There is no grounds for a scorched-earth policy.

Young defencemen generally take 4-5 years to become fully formed. This is why any expectation that any of these junior d-men are going to be key cogs in a Cup run in the short to medium term is probably delusional...and why we need to be careful about dumping Kaberle if we want to compete over the next 2-3 years.

Yeah, 'experience' as a GM, certainly, can be overrated. Mike Gillis has done a great job with the Canuckleheads and he was just a player agent before he got that job. Serge Savard was 'just' a player before he was tapped to be GM and did fine work for us in that capacity. Still, I think some experience in management in some capacity has to be preferred given the complexities of the modern NHL. The Serge Savard case is instructive in another way. He was a guy who had always stood apart as a natural leader and authority figure, an impeccable managerial type: nicknamed 'the Senator' he was obvious corner-office material almost from the get-go. The same is true of Gainey and Yzerman. Sakic'd be another, I'd speculate. Certain individuals just seem to have the right kind of 'hockey mind' and personal qualities that make you think they could run an organization effectively. It's hard to know for sure from the outside, of course, but all of the aforementioned cases really do seem glaringly obvious. Damphousse may be one of those, but I personally have never seen this. Carbonneau, on the other hand, was a leader everywhere he went and easily one of the smartest on-ice players of his generation. He was brought along as Gainey's successor both in management and behind the bench before the sad rupture of 2009. In short, he seems to be cut from the same cloth as the Savards, Gaineys and Yzermans, which is why I can see him as a plausible GM. Note that NONE of these guys are hotheads and loudmouths. I don't want J. Jonah Jameson running the Montreal Canadiens, and I am leery of both Patrick Roy and Pierre MacGuire for this reason. The Habs, of all teams, need a calm hand at the rudder - someone who can rise above the hysteria and panic that infects everything surrounding this organization, rather than contribute to it. I don't see Roy or MacGuire doing so. (In fairness, MacGuire's hothead image may be sheer showbiz rather than indicative of his true personality. But we should be careful about his backseat driving. Yes, he wanted to deal Souray, but he proposed that we take Steve Bernier back - which is as good as getting nothing back. He also despised the Carey Price pick. Ultimately he is no wiser than the rest and remember, he wasn't rated good enough for the St. Louis job either).