regarding recent political discussions

[Killer Carlson]

and a lot of bashing for the 'religous right' id like to actually say i think altho not religous by any means myself and talking from experience of a more left wing government in britain under tony blair (even though he has backed wars etc etc) that i believe it is better to have a religous element to a government.

now dont get me wrong a lot of it is ridicolous but if people live off religous values for instance they basically kept the ten commandments etc etc theyd learn to respect other races, religions etc etc.

this is why bush annoys me he claims to be religous yet will blow up any poor country at the drop of a hat and this is why my arguement for a more religous government may come across as flawed.

but somebody like mit romney may be the answer- i am talking from personal experience- altho not a mormon myself my girlfriend is mormon her family his mormon and i have a lot of mormon friends. if mitt romney put into practice what mormons preach in a sense of respecting and loving people of all races and creeds, family values (which in this country dont exist - you get gangs of upto 30 or 40 12-18 yr olds hanging around drinking because their parents cant be arsed with them).

if these values were taught at an early age in schools and became part of your curriculum then i honestly believe people would treat each other better.

now mormons dont believe in homosexuality- but at the same time they would not treat a person differently because their homosexual- they wouldnt allow gay marriage i dont belive which may come across a discrimination but again i believe a child needs the influnece of both mother and father in the home.

at the end of the day tho you cant change individuals and if their bad their bad.

im not saying everyone should become religous nuts but if hey were to bear in mind some of the ten comandments-

a) teen pregnanacy would not exist harldy

B) crime would go down.

thats just a couple of things- im not preaching here and im interested in anybody elses thoughts on the subject.

[Mont Royale]

As you acknowledge, leaders who claim to be religious (which may be done for political reasons more than spiritual) don't often allow their supposed beliefs to get in the way of their actions. That aside, there is also the problem of how to instill a political leader's values to the population at large. I think it is a stretch to suggest that teaching 'values' in school (which would be controversial, depending on how far you go) will necessarily make a big difference. Kids are influenced more by the values that they experience at home and in interaction among their peers than a 'values class' at school.

[Killer Carlson]

As you acknowledge, leaders who claim to be religious (which may be done for political reasons more than spiritual) don't often allow their supposed beliefs to get in the way of their actions. That aside, there is also the problem of how to instill a political leader's values to the population at large. I think it is a stretch to suggest that teaching 'values' in school (which would be controversial, depending on how far you go) will necessarily make a big difference. Kids are influenced more by the values that they experience at home and in interaction among their peers than a 'values class' at school.

Very good point generally i bellieve how a person turns out is down to their parenting.

[JLP]

not religious but I do miss common moral principles -- whatever happened to the conscience and sense of "the right thing"? That seems an outdated concept these days, western capitalist society has evolved individualism into a me-first greed paradigm.

[Pierre the Great]

Is this in response to the UK's new basically gay rights law where you can be thrown in prison for denying a gay couple a room for example?

Romney would be horrible. First of all he's not going to get elected he's Mormon, just like Jack Kennedy before him this is a protestant country politically we don't like (not me but in general sense mind you) non protestant people. We have the lowest number of non christian/jewish congressmen and women on the planet. When a muslem gets elected we have people like Virgil Goode who preach Hitler-isms and support 'cracking down on immigrants so that muslems do not take over this country'.

You obviously haven't paid attention to american politics. People are tired of the religious right. They only represent a fringe minority in this country. But they have been given too much power. As I've said before this country was set up so the political spectrum wouldn't radically swing left to right but stay in the centre. Checks and balances was created to create gridlock. The american people do not like both extremes of the political spectrum they like it in the middle.

Romney won't get passed the primaries due to his religion. Imagine the uproar if he put his hand on the book of mormon for example.

Romney is 8 years too late. W Bush pretty much killed whatever movement the christian right had it has climaxed its on its way down.

[Killer Carlson]

Is this in response to the UK's new basically gay rights law where you can be thrown in prison for denying a gay couple a room for example?

Romney would be horrible. First of all he's not going to get elected he's Mormon, just like Jack Kennedy before him this is a protestant country politically we don't like (not me but in general sense mind you) non protestant people. We have the lowest number of non christian/jewish congressmen and women on the planet. When a muslem gets elected we have people like Virgil Goode who preach Hitler-isms and support 'cracking down on immigrants so that muslems do not take over this country'.

You obviously haven't paid attention to american politics. People are tired of the religious right. They only represent a fringe minority in this country. But they have been given too much power. As I've said before this country was set up so the political spectrum wouldn't radically swing left to right but stay in the centre. Checks and balances was created to create gridlock. The american people do not like both extremes of the political spectrum they like it in the middle.

Romney won't get passed the primaries due to his religion. Imagine the uproar if he put his hand on the book of mormon for example.

Romney is 8 years too late. W Bush pretty much killed whatever movement the christian right had it has climaxed its on its way down.

why would their be an uproar about somebody putting their hands on a book (it shouldnt matter what your religious background is as long as you have the correct morals)? i dont follow american politics to much but my point was that a 'real' religous right wouldnt be to bad- george bush is not a true christian or he would be more merciful.

and you talk of capitalist the worst capitalists (this is in britain) of the lot are anybody who swing slightly left- its all about being cool drinking in flash cocktails bars having a london penthouse and looking down on anyone who works in manual labour or in the public sector, beeing seen in trendy nightclubs and listening to music such as coldplay whilst preaching to everyone else about giving money to poverty.

i see your point and you obviously know more than i do about american politics. but in britain a right wing party not to the extremes of the bnp is needed. our government has complelty lost touch with anyone who voted them in (personally i have never voted labour and never will i vote conservative) - they had all the backing of the unions and have since sold them down the river. yet the thick union members will still vote labour in because their so stubborn and unforgiving over magaret thatchers tories and the tories are the only other party who could get in power to vote them back in.

everybody claims our chancellor gordon brown who is tipped to take over from blair ahs done miracles for our economy yet were 25 billion in the red.

letting labour into government is like giving pigs champagne or a bum the keys to nasa.

we have major immigration problems and schooling problems- a lot of kids are being forced to go to schools outised their immediate catchment area because all the asylum seekers are being given first chocie on schools.

this is why the bnp have risen.

personally though my view on the whole race/religion/creed thing is that i am lucky to have been born in britain and have white skin i could of been born in somalia/afghanistan and just because im born here it shouldnt mean i have more rights than any other human being, but through time people have set up imigration laws and decided that only people born here should have certian rights and complain about aiding others. at the end of the day were all humans (except liverpool football club supporters) and should aid and help each other but its a shame we dont live in a perfect world.

Edited January 12, 2007 by KoZed

[Pierre the Great]

cool carlson I'm not one of those trendy bar people who talk about poverty and such because its 'trendy'. I have a labour intensive job and don't get paid much for it. I work for the super rich and I see every night people struggling to survive. A lot of people in this country have been 'forgotten' Katrina woke a lot of people up but it also created a backlash and now people are forgetting again. The facts don't lie, 3 million homeless, 100 million go the entire year without health care (300 million live in this country) ten's of millions under the poverty line. And yet we want to be this beacon to the world? I find that hypocritical.

I don't support the Labour Party in the UK anymore because they have gone too far to the right 'centrism' doesn't work. Third Way is not sustainable politics.

So are you a Liberal Democrat?

[Fanpuck33]

at the end of the day were all humans (except liverpool football club supporters) and should aid and help each other but its a shame we dont live in a perfect world.

LIVERPOOL! LIVERPOOL! GO REDS!

Anyways, there is no need for the ridiculous amount of spacing in your posts, just makes people have to scroll through more stuff to read stuff.

[Colin]

at the end of the day were all humans (except liverpool football club supporters) and should aid and help each other but its a shame we dont live in a perfect world.

Dude. All this political talk, then you diss the most important football club on the planet. Are you an Everton fan? Man (we can spend a lotta cash on diving Ronaldo's) U? Chelsea (we make the pre-cap Rangers look like a hockey team that couldn't buy their way out of a paper bag)?

Or are you one of those fans of some other team that deeply covets Gerrard and therefore hates Liverpool for not selling him to your club?

[Colin]

Ooo. Love the way Georgie is handling Iraq now. He wants to send over more troops - okay. But he told the Iraqi leader - democratically voted in - that if he doesn't follow with US wishes, he's out. Guess democracy only works if you're on board with the President. lol

[Pierre the Great]

yup thats how things work. Hugo Chavez is called a dictator yet he's continually democratically elected fairly every time and doesn't have a secret police or anything. He's just a guy with ideas. Yet I people think he's a dictator.

[shortcat1]

and a lot of bashing for the 'religous right' id like to actually say i think altho not religous by any means myself and talking from experience of a more left wing government in britain under tony blair (even though he has backed wars etc etc) that i believe it is better to have a religous element to a government.

now dont get me wrong a lot of it is ridicolous but if people live off religous values for instance they basically kept the ten commandments etc etc theyd learn to respect other races, religions etc etc.

this is why bush annoys me he claims to be religous yet will blow up any poor country at the drop of a hat and this is why my arguement for a more religous government may come across as flawed.

but somebody like mit romney may be the answer- i am talking from personal experience- altho not a mormon myself my girlfriend is mormon her family his mormon and i have a lot of mormon friends. if mitt romney put into practice what mormons preach in a sense of respecting and loving people of all races and creeds, family values (which in this country dont exist - you get gangs of upto 30 or 40 12-18 yr olds hanging around drinking because their parents cant be arsed with them).

if these values were taught at an early age in schools and became part of your curriculum then i honestly believe people would treat each other better.

now mormons dont believe in homosexuality- but at the same time they would not treat a person differently because their homosexual- they wouldnt allow gay marriage i dont belive which may come across a discrimination but again i believe a child needs the influnece of both mother and father in the home.

at the end of the day tho you cant change individuals and if their bad their bad.

im not saying everyone should become religous nuts but if hey were to bear in mind some of the ten comandments-

a) teen pregnanacy would not exist harldy

B) crime would go down.

thats just a couple of things- im not preaching here and im interested in anybody elses thoughts on the subject.

as you can probably predict, i would sympathize for a government that had a 'religious' foundation. i don't know if i'd want a theocracy but a government that has a solid moral foundation would be much preferable than one who's morally camouflaged (you never quite know where it is and it could suddenly sneak up on you and do some pretty nasty things...) by the way, that's pretty well the main reason i don't like the liberal party in canada... it's the chameleon party that changes its politics according to the existing public wind.

that being said, like others have stated, just to say that one is 'religious' doesn't qualify them as such... as jesus said in the gospels, we have to be 'innocent like lambs but also wise as serpents'.

also, yes, it's very likely that teenage pregnancy & crime would go down but that would need to have a strong acceptance of a moral code by the pretty well the whole population - won't happen...

GO :hlogo: GO!

[KoZed]

As you acknowledge, leaders who claim to be religious (which may be done for political reasons more than spiritual) don't often allow their supposed beliefs to get in the way of their actions.

That's why secularism was invented eons ago... Guess not everyone is up to speed with the concept yet.