JLP Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 thought I'd float this . . . US media says "California Supreme Court reignited a political wildfire" with their decision. Are gay marriages not a matter of course in Canada? No gay marriages in Japan for sure. "Gay" is mostly a caricature here, for example the popular "Hard Gay" is actually straight, only way people can begin to try and deal with alternative lifestyles. But I digress . . . Trudeau said something like "the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation" and yeah I'm up with that. So, gay marriage as a "wildfire" any comments? (Habs are out of the playoffs mahn gotta talk about other stuff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 Brett Hull @ SNL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 thought I'd float this . . . US media says "California Supreme Court reignited a political wildfire" with their decision. Are gay marriages not a matter of course in Canada? No gay marriages in Japan for sure. "Gay" is mostly a caricature here, for example the popular "Hard Gay" is actually straight, only way people can begin to try and deal with alternative lifestyles. But I digress . . . Trudeau said something like "the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation" and yeah I'm up with that. So, gay marriage as a "wildfire" any comments? (Habs are out of the playoffs mahn gotta talk about other stuff) I think it is mostly an issue with older people (above, let's say, 45). Even younger conservatives who might be against it are generally less passionate about the issue. There is still a great deal of homophobia here and there is definitely a significant portion of the population for whom this is a horrific event, but overall I think this will be less of a deal than when Massachusetts did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mils Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 (edited) thought I'd float this . . . US media says "California Supreme Court reignited a political wildfire" with their decision. Are gay marriages not a matter of course in Canada? No gay marriages in Japan for sure. "Gay" is mostly a caricature here, for example the popular "Hard Gay" is actually straight, only way people can begin to try and deal with alternative lifestyles. But I digress . . . Trudeau said something like "the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation" and yeah I'm up with that. So, gay marriage as a "wildfire" any comments? (Habs are out of the playoffs mahn gotta talk about other stuff) A comment on Trudeau's statement: While it's true the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation, that misses the point, and is incomplete. (I'm sure Trudeau addresses this is in the rest of the context of his statement.) Since marriage, as a governmental matter, changes tax liability and a variety fo other legal rights and duties, the state must act, because the legal aspects of marriage are a state matter. The state may very well have no place in the bedroom, but marriage extends beyond the bedroom and into the organization of society, so government has to be involved at least by defining terms and implementing laws. (Whether it's to limit marriage or allow gay marriage is up to the state, I am expressing no opinon on that either way.) Edited May 17, 2008 by Mils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 A comment on Trudeau's statement: While it's true the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation, that misses the point, and is incomplete. (I'm sure Trudeau addresses this is in the rest of the context of his statement.) Since marriage, as a governmental matter, changes tax liability and a variety fo other legal rights and duties, the state must act, because the legal aspects of marriage are a state matter. The state may very well have no place in the bedroom, but marriage extends beyond the bedroom and into the organization of society, so government has to be involved at least by defining terms and implementing laws. (Whether it's to limit marriage or allow gay marriage is up to the state, I am expressing no opinon on that either way.) Which is why many have argued a government "marriage" is simply a civic union whereas "marriage" is one of religious context...but the reality is people getting their panties in a knot over semantics. An old roommate of mine used to joke around that now guys who are broke, and pissed off, at their roommates can claim they were common law married and ask for 50% of his roommates stuff... There are really NOT that many tax benefits (in Canada) that I've seen since marriage. You would really have to be trying to split income and what not...having kids is the biggest tax benefit a married couple, or even unmarried couple, can have. Which is really a non-issue for a gay couple...barring the very rare gay couples who are able to adopt, already had kids, etc...and that opens a whole other issue of whether you think gay couples should be allowed to raise children. I can almost guarantee you that more people are against a gay couple having a child then the marriage issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mils Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Which is why many have argued a government "marriage" is simply a civic union whereas "marriage" is one of religious context...but the reality is people getting their panties in a knot over semantics. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Kosmos Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 I say live and let live. I have three things I'm gonna throw out there: 1- I don't get it why so many conservatives take it as a personal insult that people are gay. I'm almost certain people aren't gay just to piss off intolerant bigots. Why should it bother me if my next door neighbours was a gay couple (and for all I know, I might have several gay neighbours)? I'm sure their being gay has nothing to do with me whatsoever, and if it is a choice (which can be debated), I'm sure they wouldn't make that choice just to make me angry. 2- I also don't think the "as long as they don't come on to me, it's OK" makes any sense. I have a feeling this is more of a fear that guys have, I don't think it's as common a feeling among women (although I may be wrong about that though, of course). If you're a straight guy, you are not sexually attracted to every woman on Earth, so why assume that every gay guy would be attracted to every other man on this planet? 3- The religious nuts need to realize that the Bible was written several hundreds of years ago. Actually, a lot has changed since Christ was born. (Coincidetnally I think gun nuts siilarly need to realize that society has changed since the second amendment was written.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Well I know here in Alberta, Gay Marriage only takes place because the federal government says so. In the provincial bill of rights (what I call it, I forget it's official name) it does not include homosexuals. Theres a leader of some gay organization in Calgary right now pressuring the government to change it. However, because they are part of the federal governments rights, theres really nothing the province can do to stop gay marriage. As for the more personal question of whether it should be allowed or not, I'm a little biased because my best friend of 10 years is gay. I don't understand why he can't have the same rights as myself just because our sexual orientation is different. Although this is Alberta so I shouldn't be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 Although this is Alberta so I shouldn't be surprised. Well in Alberta, untill 1955, a man could legally marry his horse. jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Well in Alberta, untill 1955, a man could legally marry his horse. jk You really don't like Alberta, do you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 You really don't like Alberta, do you. I jest. I am GM of The Oil mahn I gots to have some love for the West. Besides, if a man truly loves his horse . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I jest. I am GM of The Oil mahn I gots to have some love for the West. Besides, if a man truly loves his horse . . . Well I don't care, I've just seen you go after Alberta before so I just commented. It's not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 Well I don't care, I've just seen you go after Alberta before so I just commented. It's not a big deal. well Alberta seems to me about the most "conservative" place in Canada no? But I spent a summer in Calgary and Jasper during my schooldays, was a great time. Maybe you mean I went after Alberta after I saw this video, it did siggest redneckness but I don't expect a lot of human compassion from greasy bouncers actually, sure this happens at a lot of places in a lot of cities. I expect the attitudes are not as open in Calgary as in Montreal Toronto or Vancouver, on gay marriage for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 well Alberta seems to me about the most "conservative" place in Canada no? But I spent a summer in Calgary and Jasper during my schooldays, was a great time. Maybe you mean I went after Alberta after I saw this video, it did siggest redneckness but I don't expect a lot of human compassion from greasy bouncers actually, sure this happens at a lot of places in a lot of cities. I expect the attitudes are not as open in Calgary as in Montreal Toronto or Vancouver, on gay marriage for example. Bouncers are shit man, they'll find any reason not to let you in. They've pulled that 25 and up crap on me too, thats why I never even bother anymore. I don't need the ego trip shoved in my face. I remember that thing Global did though, there was a huuuuge to do about it in the paper. There is definitely a redneck attitude amongst the older generation though, for sure. However, I think the future is good because there doesn't seem to be anywhere near as much intolerance amongst the younger generation (from what I've seen anyway.) but it's the older rednecks that are electing all of our politicians as well. The apathy in this province amongst the younger people is disgusting. Thats not to say this is a horrible place to live, Calgary still manages to maintain a reputation as a very clean city with a warm and friendly population. I'm not overly happy with a few things about Calgary right now (mostly about how damn expensive it is to do anything) but I'll always be proud to say I'm a Calgarian. Had to throw something nice about Calgary in there. I don't want it to look like I'm totally ashamed of where I come from like Pierre, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 Here's how some Japanese clubs deal with ethnic minorities: :puke: . . . and to try and get back on topic, as I mentioned earlier "gay" is basically a novelty here. there are a few "colorful" celebrities who play gay but many of the best-known are not even actually gay (see "Hard Gay"). So gay marriage is not even an issue here, gay is something people laugh at, and actual gays are still in the closet. Makes Alberta look positively cosmopolitan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Stealth Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Here's how some Japanese clubs deal with ethnic minorities: :puke: . . . and to try and get back on topic, as I mentioned earlier "gay" is basically a novelty here. there are a few "colorful" celebrities who play gay but many of the best-known are not even actually gay (see "Hard Gay"). So gay marriage is not even an issue here, gay is something people laugh at, and actual gays are still in the closet. Makes Alberta look positively cosmopolitan Good god..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 I don't want it to look like I'm totally ashamed of where I come from like Pierre, haha. I don't hate St. Louis/Missouri/Midwest/U.S. I just out grew its sand box minded mentality and nature. Plus I don't fit in an ultra-conservative country the Iran of the West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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