The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 If DSP turns out to be a top-6 player (!!!!) - which does seem unlikely - then holy crap, MT has to wear that. Doing less than nothing with a young player with physicality and toughness who can produce points, on a team which needs all of the above? Inexcusable. Obviously, though, this is a hugely premature conclusion. Parenteau is another interesting case. Numbers suggest he is a legitimate #6 FW, at least on teams starved for top-6 talent. Still, he wasn't a great skater, and maybe a fleet of foot team was not the place for him. The more such cases pile up, though, the worse it looks for MT's ability to maximize the talent he's given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Don't forget to pile on Semin, Sekac, Moan, Briere, Bourque, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Subban and all the other career's Therrien has stunted or ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Don't forget to pile on Semin, Sekac, Moan, Briere, Bourque, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Subban and all the other career's Therrien has stunted or ruined. Some of those he actually did stunt. I'll leave it to you to figure it out. You already know who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Was it Crankshaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Some of those he actually did stunt. I'll leave it to you to figure it out. You already know who they are. I don't think he 'stunted' any of those, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I don't think he 'stunted' any of those, actually. Ya see you and I can disagree, and this is one of those points. Was it Crankshaft? Of course just think if he let Crankshaft do his thing? We woulda been a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Would of been entertaining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 While your on that subject- Parenteau a lot more productive in Toronto-- could it be? Law of averages there. Someone has to score. Countless examples of average players putting up solid point totals with terrible teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Paranteau couldn't even get traded at deadline, he will be lucky to be in NHL next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Paranteau couldn't even get traded at deadline, he will be lucky to be in NHL next season. He was injured at the deadline wasn't he? He had a good season with the Laffs though really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Ya see you and I can disagree, and this is one of those points. We may disagree on what 'stunted' means. Subban is an elite defenceman - top-5 most likely, top-10 at worst. I think we agree that we'd like to see the reins taken off PK - let him freewheel more - but that's not the same thing as saying that his development has been 'stunted.' Galchenyuk is emerging as a frigging beast, with 26 goals and scoring at a goal-a-game pace over the past while. That's not what I'd call 'stunted.' That leaves Beaulieu. But Beaulieu's pattern is similar to Galy's. He's gradually, oh so gradually, coming along under MT. I'd predict that by the end of next season, assuming (argh) that MT is still with us, N8 will be unquestionably a top-4 guy and an emerging pillar of our blueline. None of this means 'stunted.' If we're gonna criticize MT, we should do so from firm foundations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Let Subban freewheel more..hmm? I would say he should move the puck up the ice quicker. But, would love to see him going hard to the net with puck more when in opposing zone, instead of circling behind net, tossing it into the slot and not recognizing he is best option to get scoring chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 We may disagree on what 'stunted' means. Subban is an elite defenceman - top-5 most likely, top-10 at worst. I think we agree that we'd like to see the reins taken off PK - let him freewheel more - but that's not the same thing as saying that his development has been 'stunted.' Galchenyuk is emerging as a frigging beast, with 26 goals and scoring at a goal-a-game pace over the past while. That's not what I'd call 'stunted.' That leaves Beaulieu. But Beaulieu's pattern is similar to Galy's. He's gradually, oh so gradually, coming along under MT. I'd predict that by the end of next season, assuming (argh) that MT is still with us, N8 will be unquestionably a top-4 guy and an emerging pillar of our blueline. None of this means 'stunted.' If we're gonna criticize MT, we should do so from firm foundations. So the theory is that the more we hold these guys back the better they get? Nah I don't think so. Le Genius could care less about winning a cup, it is all about having a decent record so you keep your job. If he had a plan he would work with the guys, and let them learn. You say Galchenyuk is doing good now so Le Genius developed him properly. I say with a good coach Galchenyuk would be at least 1 year ahead of where he is now. You say PK is better because Le Genius stapled his ass to the bench every time he made a mistake. I say BS with a good coach PK would be even better than he is. That is stunting, not allowing the player to reach the heights that he can. I still think getting rid of Semin after so few games was a poor decision. The results of where he is now is immaterial. He was not given a proper chance nor the coaching to succeed, I can;t speak to what happened before he got here and it is quite irrelevant. It is what we did with him that matters, and our "coach" wanted no part of him from day one. Kassian was an MB decision and had nothing to do with Le Genius that I know of. I understand the reasoning even if I am not sure that was the right choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 The problem with this discussion is we could point to a guy Therrien failed with only to learn later the guy felt Therrien was a big part of his career. We could also point to a guy we think Therrien developed, only to learn later the guy ignored Therrien and just developed on their own. Galchenyuk was one of the best players of his draft year before he met Therrien. He's becoming what we always thought he was supposed to one day become. Are we to credit Therrien merely because Alex isn't Nail? There's so many variables in the development of a players career it's an impossible task, not to ruin the fun. 10 years from now we might find out that Subban learned how to see the game better from Michel. Or that astrology helped him see the game better. Who the f knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." Twain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Machine makes a great point. But I do think you can ask whether a player seems to be fulfilling his potential. If he's not, it may or may not be the coach's fault; but if he is, then we can definitely conclude that the coach is not 'stunting' the player. Has Subban fulfilled his potential? In spades. Has Galcheyuk? He seems to be getting there. Is Beaulieu? Work in progress, but I'll be shocked if he doesn't become top-4 within the next year. habs rule says the latter two, at least, would have developed faster under another coach. Now that's possible. In Galy's case, we might even say it's probable. But if a player, at day's end, becomes what his potential dictates, then he's not 'stunted.' At most his progress has been slower than it could have been. And even then: if the delay is caused by MT's insistence that a player be solid in all zones, then it may be worth it in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 'What if's' are a bit hard to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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