Doubts About Perezhogin's Stronghold On Third Line.

[TruthMonger]

I think people are forgetting the obvious here. Perezhogin is not that well hyped. The only people that thought/think he can be a future superstar is Habs scouting and fans.

Not entirely true. He's graduated from prospect status, but when hockeysfuture.com had him listed last year, he was the #1 prospect in the organization and was ranked an 8.5, which falls between:

9 - Elite forward / defenseman / goaltender -- possesses the potential for greatness, a perennial All-Star throughout his career. Think Joe Sakic, Jeremy Roenick, Niklas Lidstrom, Rob Blake, Dominik Hasek, Martin Brodeur.

8 - First line forward / No. 2 defenseman / No. 1 goaltender -- players with definite skill that might be just a cut below elite status, but still possessing All-Star potential. Think Patrik Elias, Keith Tkachuk, Mattias Ohlund, Adam Foote, Sean Burke, Olaf Kolzig.

Now, I'm not saying hockeysfuture is clairvoyant, but they spend more time immersed in hockey than I do, and if they say there's a possibility that he could develop into a player whose skill falls somewhere between Sakic and Elias, then I'm willing to give him another year or two to develop...

[C-Love]

C-Love, your solution is to trade our prospects for veterans? Sounds like the Leafs formula for success...

Don't get me wrong, the Leafs stategy has been horrible, & I am quite aware of how their team has been run, and I am not advocating that Montreal just trade their future for overaged/injuryprone has beens....however, if this off-season we picked up Dumont, Chara, and lets say Shannahan and in the process given up Perezhogin, Ribeiro, Bonk, Souray and a draft pick. We would be a contender right now and for years to come, while giving our youth time to develop. I know that the reaction to this will be if BG could of gotten those players for that he probably would have....but I don't think he would have and from guessing what those guys went for I can only assume that he could have pulled those deals if he wanted to. I am simply saying that being too patient and putting all your hopes in a bunch of middle 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks over the last couple of years seems foolish. And when Ottawa built their team on draft picks they were getting top 5 picks every year. If we were talking about a bunch of guys picked in the top five in the last few drafts then I wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Nilan]

Don't get me wrong, the Leafs stategy has been horrible, & I am quite aware of how their team has been run, and I am not advocating that Montreal just trade their future for overaged/injuryprone has beens....however, if this off-season we picked up Dumont, Chara, and lets say Shannahan and in the process given up Perezhogin, Ribeiro, Bonk, Souray and a draft pick. We would be a contender right now and for years to come, while giving our youth time to develop. I know that the reaction to this will be if BG could of gotten those players for that he probably would have....but I don't think he would have and from guessing what those guys went for I can only assume that he could have pulled those deals if he wanted to. I am simply saying that being too patient and putting all your hopes in a bunch of middle 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks over the last couple of years seems foolish. And when Ottawa built their team on draft picks they were getting top 5 picks every year. If we were talking about a bunch of guys picked in the top five in the last few drafts then I wouldn't be having this conversation.

No offense, but "picking up Dumont, Chara, and lets say Shannahan and in the process given up Perezhogin, Ribeiro, Bonk, Souray and a draft pick" is fantasy land.

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

this forum is fantasy land!

Edited September 21, 2006 by Dutch_Habs_Fan

[PB]

Good drafting and developement is of paramount importance,....it cost money thought, but from what I know

Gillet keeps increasing the budget allowed to that end... that is excellent news.

C-Love's assessement about some fans going over the top with our prospects is relevant.......but suggesting

that BG would casualy bring in un-worthy or un-ready prospects instead of veterans is irrelevant.

He plays safe if anything with his cache of prospects and that's why he keeps bringing veterans in........

Aebicher was brought in and closed a slot that could have been left opened for Dany to fill-in ,......Samsonov is closing a slot that could have been left opened for Kotsitsyn or else,....bringing in Johnson,...same thing again,..even re-signing our own UFA veterans Bouillon and Downey,.....same thing.

We also heard that BG had talks with Elias, Arnott, Shanahan and we had confirmation from Boivin and Lecavalier himself that contacts had been entertained......before Tampa offered him to renew his contract before he reached UFagency.

I dont see any problems with how BG trys to conduct it's GM fonctions under the new CBA.

PS: I wrote this after reading C-Love's first post on the subject......but I didn't know,

which I now know, after reading his second post,... that he was a fantaisy boy.

Edited September 21, 2006 by PB

[alexstream]

I've actually held the opinion about Perezhogin since last year.

Idem

[hankhab]

This is the problem with that whole fan mentality that gets all excited about young players. Most of the time, you can't really be sure how a player will work out. Whenever I read or hear a fan saying that such-and-such a rookie will really help us this season, I just laugh (unless that rookie is a Crosby).

Zhogs has elite offensive skills, from what I saw in the first third of last season. The question concerns his heart and his head, I think. He may be a guy who never maximizes his potential, or one of these tantalizing guys who shows flashes of brilliance but never really gets it together. Or if he does adjust, he might remain a second-rate finesse player a la Martin Ruscinsky - which I personally think is the most likely scenario.

That he hasn't really taken charge and made a decisive statement (the way Ryder and Higgins did in their rookie seasons) suggests that we MIGHT begin to downgrade expectations from the 'future star' label.

I'm sorry, but must disagree. Rookies other than those of the Crosby calibre can definatly help out this year. Kostitsin, if he ever gets his bearings, has elite level skill, no matter what you may think. Latendresse has great hands, and could also be another Higgens or Ryder this year. The fact is, its never easy to call which guys will have an impact, not many people seen Ryder coming, for instance. So why do you laugh when someone points out a rookie that they think might have an impact? Do you have a crystal ball?

[C-Love]

No offense, but "picking up Dumont, Chara, and lets say Shannahan and in the process given up Perezhogin, Ribeiro, Bonk, Souray and a draft pick" is fantasy land.

Dumont, Chara and Shannahan would come for free, because BG would have just needed to sign them, costing them nothing personnel wise. With those pick ups, he could have dumped the above mentioned players for draft picks. I don't see this being a fantasy at all, Dumont would probably have come to Montreal for under $2 million, Chara at $3,724,000 and Shannahan at $2,280,000. - $2million for Ribiero, - $2,394,000million for Bonk, -$1million for Perezhogin, -$2,128,000 for Souray, -$1million for Perezhogin.

Those numbers seem to match up pretty well, now that's if Sportsnet has their salaries right.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/

I know one team probably would not have been able to sign 3 of those players, but we all know that we could have signed Dumont and if BG would have upped the anty, he probably could have gotten Shannahan, he just wasen't willing to spend the $. All I'm saying is that it could have been done, or something could have been done to sure up the team a little more then he did.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they do with the young guns, I just hate listening to people complain every season about losing and finishing 8th or 9th, this is what you want. During the off season people seem to be content with the direction of the team, but once we start the season and begin losing, the talk is always about how we didn't do enough in the off season. Very frustrating.

[hankhab]

Dumont, Chara and Shannahan would come for free, because BG would have just needed to sign them, costing them nothing personnel wise. With those pick ups, he could have dumped the above mentioned players for draft picks. I don't see this being a fantasy at all, Dumont would probably have come to Montreal for under $2 million, Chara at $3,724,000 and Shannahan at $2,280,000. - $2million for Ribiero, - $2,394,000million for Bonk, -$1million for Perezhogin, -$2,128,000 for Souray, -$1million for Perezhogin.

Those numbers seem to match up pretty well, now that's if Sportsnet has their salaries right.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/

I know one team probably would not have been able to sign 3 of those players, but we all know that we could have signed Dumont and if BG would have upped the anty, he probably could have gotten Shannahan, he just wasen't willing to spend the $. All I'm saying is that it could have been done, or something could have been done to sure up the team a little more then he did.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they do with the young guns, I just hate listening to people complain every season about losing and finishing 8th or 9th, this is what you want. During the off season people seem to be content with the direction of the team, but once we start the season and begin losing, the talk is always about how we didn't do enough in the off season. Very frustrating.

Do you really think adding Dumont, Chara and Shannahan would improve us that much? Dumont is a goal scorer, but is he really as good or better than Samsonov? I really don't think he's as good. He's more injury prone, tends to be soft on the puck, and isn't very big. Chara signed for 7 mil a year in Boston, why would he have come here for 3.7? Also, he wasn't very effective in the playoffs last year, was he? As for Shannahan, I think he would be a nice addition, but what this team really needs is a stud of a first line center, who can play 25 minutes a night, put the puck in the net, and play the whole season long. The only player resembling that who was available this summer was Jason Arnott, and he's far from injury proof. And, by all accounts, he was persued by Gainey, but chose to sign elsewhere.

[beliveau1]

Dumont, Shanahan & Chara?

"IF"

[fromage]

It is not Bob Gainey's fault that most of the free agents he offered contracts signed elsewhere for less money. Example: Elias, Shanahan

[Nilan]

Do you really think adding Dumont, Chara and Shannahan would improve us that much? Dumont is a goal scorer, but is he really as good or better than Samsonov? I really don't think he's as good. He's more injury prone, tends to be soft on the puck, and isn't very big. Chara signed for 7 mil a year in Boston, why would he have come here for 3.7? Also, he wasn't very effective in the playoffs last year, was he? As for Shannahan, I think he would be a nice addition, but what this team really needs is a stud of a first line center, who can play 25 minutes a night, put the puck in the net, and play the whole season long. The only player resembling that who was available this summer was Jason Arnott, and he's far from injury proof. And, by all accounts, he was persued by Gainey, but chose to sign elsewhere.

I'd also add that Gainey was reported to have offered Shanny more than what he accepted in NY.

[Huckleberry]

C-love, I am not sure what you are trying to say.

That having high expections for the upcoming season is wrong.

Or being dissapointed that the team you love is losing is wrong.

I think the team has improved over the off season. (Or do you disagree with that as well?) With improvement comes optimism.

We do have prospects in the organization that we should discuss and be excited about. Why? Because it is fun. We are on this page to discuss the Habs past present and the future.

I do not see a difference between optimism and negativity. They are both unjustified before the start of the season. Which, I think, is your point?

Bob did well this off season. Many players are relucant to come here. However, with every little bit of improvement, it is cause for talent to look to Montreal as an option.

Go Habs Go!