Let's make Plan B, Plan A

[peihabs]

:hlogo: I say go after either Patrick Marleau or Patrick O'Sullivan for our first line centre. Use Latendresse, Perezhogin, Kostopolous & Dandenault to go after either of the above. Which ever one we can get the best deal on without moving anybody other then these 4. Then sign Glen Murray. We look like this up front: 1'st line Patrick Marleau or O'Sullivan centering Tanguay & Kovalev. 2'nd line Plecanek centering the two Kostitsyn's. 3'rd line Koivu centering Higgins & Murray. 4'th line Lapierre centering Begin & Laraque. spares Pacoiretty, D'Agostin, Chipchura, Lehoux & Stewart.

[ForumGhost]

Why do we have to get anyone? Marleau or wouldn't be a step up from either Plex or Koivu, so what's the point? Also, Murray is pretty okay, but there's no room for him here and obviously could be prone to injury. We have a good top 6 and the club has made it clear they will be moving forward with the current roster if Sundin can't be convinced.

[Trizzak]

Once again, I plea for the mods to create a pointless trade thread for posts like this. Call it, "This trade works in EA's NHL09!"

[KoZed]

:hlogo: I say go after either Patrick Marleau or Patrick O'Sullivan for our first line centre. Use Latendresse, Perezhogin, Kostopolous & Dandenault to go after either of the above. Which ever one we can get the best deal on without moving anybody other then these 4. Then sign Glen Murray. We look like this up front: 1'st line Patrick Marleau or O'Sullivan centering Tanguay & Kovalev. 2'nd line Plecanek centering the two Kostitsyn's. 3'rd line Koivu centering Higgins & Murray. 4'th line Lapierre centering Begin & Laraque. spares Pacoiretty, D'Agostin, Chipchura, Lehoux & Stewart.

Lats > Marleau or Sullivan (in 2-3 years, but still)

And Murray is a washed up piece of crap.

[habs rule]

i cant figure out why we would do this, or how it improves our club, you give up solid up and comers who will prob do well this year for washed up junk. Ok give them perez and kostopolos I am good with that. SO trade kostopolous and perezogin for patrick marleau and sullivan that s a gooooooood deal

[habs rule]

or Maybe we have an equipment guy we could trade for both of them I hope you all realize just much cheek in tounge this is

[Wiggles]

I like plan C-1.

Because if I C-1 more stupid thread like this, I'll hurl.

[Tony]

:hlogo: I say go after either Patrick Marleau or Patrick O'Sullivan for our first line centre. Use Latendresse, Perezhogin, Kostopolous & Dandenault to go after either of the above. Which ever one we can get the best deal on without moving anybody other then these 4. Then sign Glen Murray. We look like this up front: 1'st line Patrick Marleau or O'Sullivan centering Tanguay & Kovalev. 2'nd line Plecanek centering the two Kostitsyn's. 3'rd line Koivu centering Higgins & Murray. 4'th line Lapierre centering Begin & Laraque. spares Pacoiretty, D'Agostin, Chipchura, Lehoux & Stewart.

Before going bananas on this guy, I think we could easy dismantle this rumor based on the power of logics.

First off, Marleau has an NTC and as enticing the Habs are this season, I don't think he'll budge from San Jose where he's the number two centre behind Thornton. I mean, it's a win-win for him, good team and no pressure since Big Joe is their main man. Mind you, there still is pressure and expectations on Marleau but he's not going to come to Montreal where he'd be scrutinized by the media. If he can't take the San Jose media pressure, go figure here.

Another important point pertains Patrick O'Sullivan. Sure, that kid is easily going to be a top player for whatever team he's playing. Yes, internally, the Kings have talked about moving him if they can't sign him to a contract anytime soon and the Habs are interested of getting him off Los Angeles. The reality on O'Sullivan is that as promising he is, he still needs to bloom. So why on earth would the Habs, on their centennial season, put an unproven young player who still needs to work on his craft ON THE TOP FREAKIN' LINE AT CENTRE!!!!!!. NOT JUST ANY POSITION, THE FREAKIN' CENTRE!. THE GUY WHO STIRS THE SHIP WITH THE TOP DOGS, WHOM CARBO, GAINEY AND ALLLLLLLLL OF THE FREAKIN' FANS IN THE CITY ARE GOING TO BE RELYING ON TO SCORE GAME IN AND OUT. THAT FREAKIN' GUY!

Hell, don't even get me started on the trade package. Latendresse? Ok, sure he had trade value. That's a start. Perezhogin? Ok sure he has some potential but when you lose a guy to Russia once, there's a good chance he'll leave again and no GM is going to touch that with a 10 foot pole unless the reward is worth the risk. Kostopoulos and Dandenault would be throw ins in this kind of deal. Last time I check, those 2 will not make or break any deal with those 2 players. In fact, if teams are so hell bent on getting similar players, there's still some stuff left in the UFA market.

Glen Murray, I mention last for a reason. That's what Montreal wants to avoid. This isn't the crappy washed down Habs that welcomed anyone to dawn their jersey. I think it's safe to say at this point, Gainey can be picky on who he wants or not on this team. Murray doesn't cut it. Montreal doesn't need another 15-20 goal scorer, they need a 40 goal scorer.

Edit: fixed some typos.

Edited August 17, 2008 by Tony

[habs rule]

Before going bananas on this guy, I think we could easy dismantle this rumor based on the power of logics.

First off, Marleau has an NTC and as enticing the Habs are this season, I don't think he'll budge from San Jose where he's the number two centre behind Thornton. I mean, it's a win-win for him, good team and no pressure since Big Joe is their main man. Mind you, there still is pressure and expectations on Marleau but he's not going to come to Montreal where he'd be scrutinized by the media. If he can't take the San Jose media pressure, go figure here.

Another important point pertains Patrick O'Sullivan. Sure, that kid is easily going to be a top player for whatever team he's playing. Yes, internally, the Kings have talked about moving him if they can't sign him to a contract anytime soon and the Habs are interested of getting him off Los Angeles. The reality on O'Sullivan is that as promising he is, he still needs to bloom. So why on earth would the Habs, on their centennial season, put an unproven young player who still needs to work on his craft ON THE TOP FREAKIN' LINE AT CENTRE!!!!!!. NOT JUST ANY POSITION, THE FREAKIN' CENTRE!. THE GUY WHO STIRS THE SHIP WITH THE TOP DOGS, WHOM CARBO, GAINEY AND ALLLLLLLLL OF THE FREAKIN' FANS IN THE CITY ARE GOING TO BE RELYING ON TO SCORE GAME IN AND OUT. THAT FREAKIN' GUY!

Hell, don't even get me started on the trade package. Latendresse? Ok, sure he had trade value. That's a start. Perezhogin? Ok sure he has some potential but when you lose a guy to Russia once, there's a good chance he'll leave again and no GM is going to touch that with a 10 foot pole unless the reward is worth the risk. Kostopoulos and Dandenault would be throw ins in this kind of deal. Last time I check, those 2 will not make or break any deal with those 2 players. In fact, if teams are so hell bent on getting similar players, there's still some stuff left in the UFA market.

Glen Murray, I mention last for a reason. That's what Montreal wants to avoid. This isn't the crappy washed down Habs that welcomed anyone to dawn their jersey. I think it's safe to say at this point, Gainey can be picky on who he wants or not on this team. Murray doesn't cut it. Montreal doesn't need another 15-20 goal scorer, they need a 40 goal scorer.

Edit: fixed some typos.

well it was nice you didn't go banana's anyways.

[MAK]

I like plan C-1.

Because if I C-1 more stupid thread like this, I'll hurl.

Welcome to HW, pal !!

[MAK]

of course we'd all love for Sundin to come here but it's more likely not to happen.

however I'.d rather pass on sundin in order to have room to sign guys like tanguay and komisarek to longterm deals.

besides, the only true trade value is Chirst Higgins and I'm not ready to see him leave...unless it's for a real-deal player. the problem is that when teams have such players, they.re not up for trade.

Patrick Marleau could help but if we're to have a centerman that plays like a little girl in the playoffs, might as well save millions and keep pleks.

I dont think that detroit ever had big centermen and they fare quite well.

what they had, though, was hard working, gritty 3rd-4th liners. maybe if Lapierre and chipchura elevate their game, will montreal be a real threat for the cup.

[CerebusClone]

Plan B should probably be to start the season with the current roster, see how well the youngters progress, evaluate our needs (if any), and then use all that cap space to make smart acquisitions. Depending on what will happen this season (in Montreal and elsewhere), there are guys like Keith Tkachuk (he plays centre now), Martin Havlat, Derek Morris ... who could become interesting options if we need to fill some holes, and if they become available.

Maybe Bob could even pull a major trade, for example acquiring a young stud like Paul Stastny (of course he would cost a lot, maybe we would need to include Komisarek). I'm not saying he's available or that we should even try to get him, it's just a wild idea I'm throwing out there.

This time, Bob Gainey should be patient... hopefully he won't change, and do something stupid...

[alexstream]

Plan B should probably be to start the season with the current roster, see how well the youngters progress, evaluate our needs (if any), and then use all that cap space to make smart acquisitions. Depending on what will happen this season (in Montreal and elsewhere), there are guys like Keith Tkachuk (he plays centre now), Martin Havlat, Derek Morris ... who could become interesting options if we need to fill some holes, and if they become available.

Maybe Bob could even pull a major trade, for example acquiring a young stud like Paul Stastny (of course he would cost a lot, maybe we would need to include Komisarek). I'm not saying he's available or that we should even try to get him, it's just a wild idea I'm throwing out there.

This time, Bob Gainey should be patient... hopefully he won't change, and do something stupid...

it is.

[CerebusClone]

it is.

Well it wouldn't be the first time that Gainey acquires another veteran while we all thought his shopping was done (ex. Smolinski and Kostopoulos last season). While the Robert Lang rumor was maybe nothing serious, it might indicate that Gainey has made a few phone calls here and there...

I know Gainey already mentionned that Chipchura will have a roster spot, but what people say on television, and what they really think are often very different (he's not going to say openly that they don't have full confidence in Chipchura, and would rather find another veteran centre).

[Habitforming]

Sundin or nothing until close to the deadline IMO. (naturally a big name player in a trade no one saw coming )

Let's face it, even without Mats we could have five 30 goal scorers.

[alexstream]

Well it wouldn't be the first time that Gainey acquires another veteran while we all thought his shopping was done (ex. Smolinski and Kostopoulos last season). While the Robert Lang rumor was maybe nothing serious, it might indicate that Gainey has made a few phone calls here and there...

I know Gainey already mentionned that Chipchura will have a roster spot, but what people say on television, and what they really think are often very different (he's not going to say openly that they don't have full confidence in Chipchura, and would rather find another veteran centre).

I don't know, they all said they were very happy with their lineup if they ended up losing the Sundin derby... and I mean, look at it and tell me that you are not happy with the lineup... There is everything to be happy about. It could be better, but it does look better than last season (104pts, 1st in east) so IMO, they have every reason to be content as is if Sundin doesn't sign... in 2009 we'll just hunt another UFA.

[Habitforming]

I don't know, they all said they were very happy with their lineup if they ended up losing the Sundin derby... and I mean, look at it and tell me that you are not happy with the lineup... There is everything to be happy about. It could be better, but it does look better than last season (104pts, 1st in east) so IMO, they have every reason to be content as is if Sundin doesn't sign... in 2009 we'll just hunt another UFA.

The best part about that is they will be minimum 7 years younger

[alexstream]

not sure how interesting the 2009 class is though..

[CerebusClone]

not sure how interesting the 2009 class is though..

There won't be a lot of top end talent at the forward position, except for Martin Havlat, and perhaps the Sedin twins as well as Henrik Zetterbeg, but those last three should resign with their respective team (at least I hope for Vancouver).

However Montreal should be in a great position once again, with money to spend while not necessarily needing to. Let's assume for exemple that we don't resign Koivu, Kovalev, Begin, Bouilon, Dandeneault, and Kostopoulos, that gives us nearly 15 millions in extra cap space.

Then assuming he has a good season, we resign Tanguay for approximately the same amount, and give well deserved raises to Komisarek, Higgins, Plekanec, Chipchura, and Latendresse, I figure this would cost us an additional 11 millions on top of what they currently make (a 3 million raise for the fiorst three, and a 1 million raise for the other 2). Thus we'd save about 4 millions at this point.

If Pacioretty and Maxwell fare well in Hamilton, they could get the call next season, which in addition to a defenseman (i.e Valentenko) would give us a roster like this (this is just an example):

Pacioretty-Plekanec-A.Kostsitsyn

Tanguay-Maxwell-Latendresse

Higgins-Chipchura-S.Kostsitsyn

Stewart-Lapierre-Laraque

Markov-Komisarek

Harmlik-O'Byrne

Valentenko-Gorges

Price

Halak

This looks pretty good on paper at this point, but of course many things can happen until then... I am getting a little ahead of myself (although this is the kind of thing Gainey had to think about)... and if some of my assumptions don't work out, my point is simply that we'll have the cap space to fix it.

Heck if we wanted to, we could maybe even sign the Sedin twins next summer (if they're available, and then Tanguay would likely not be back)...

[saskhab]

Ben Maxwell won't be a 2nd line C by next year. The guy has barely played since being drafted. He's at least 2 years away, probably 3. Trotter is probably further ahead just by virtue of his experience level.

[CerebusClone]

Ben Maxwell won't be a 2nd line C by next year. The guy has barely played since being drafted. He's at least 2 years away, probably 3. Trotter is probably further ahead just by virtue of his experience level.

These were just assumptions, this is almost a "worst case" scenario. If Maxwell isn't ready, then there's Trotter like you mentionned (althought he also has a lot to prove), we could resign Koivu, we could sign somebody, maybe Higgins or Tanguay will be forced to play centre this season and impress the coaching staff, etc.

I was just pointing out that Bob Gainey will have many decisions to make, but will also have a lot of flexibility to do so. Granted that many young players will get significant increases, but we have a lot of veteran contracts expiring as well.

[saskhab]

These were just assumptions, this is almost a "worst case" scenario. If Maxwell isn't ready, then there's Trotter like you mentionned (althought he also has a lot to prove), we could resign Koivu, we could sign somebody, maybe Higgins or Tanguay will be forced to play centre this season and impress the coaching staff, etc.

I was just pointing out that Bob Gainey will have many decisions to make, but will also have a lot of flexibility to do so. Granted that many young players will get significant increases, but we have a lot of veteran contracts expiring as well.

OK. I was more looking at a "most likely" scenario, and the "most likely" is having a centre not on that list for the 2nd line, not an in house promotion. Maxwell's an interesting prospect, but he has a long way to go. When I saw him play for Kootenay you could see his talent, but he didn't look like he was really above the junior level in terms of seeing the ice. My initial reaction was that he would need some decent time in the AHL, but it was just one game. But based on other junior players I've seen in recent years, he wasn't at the level of guys like Setoguchi or even Chipchura in terms of progress, and those guys have spent time in the AHL.

[JoeLassister]

However Montreal should be in a great position once again, with money to spend while not necessarily needing to. Let's assume for exemple that we don't resign Koivu, Kovalev, Begin, Bouilon, Dandeneault, and Kostopoulos, that gives us nearly 15 millions in extra cap space.

To be honest, if we do not resign all of these guys and lost all of them for nothing in return, i'll be quite pissed... You cannot just assume that with the cap space you will sign UFA's, because they have the final word. Better trade Kovy at the trade deadline or lock him for 2 more years that lose him on UFA.

[saskhab]

It's really early to be discussing who should go and who should stay, but there are a couple of points to consider:

Kovalev is an offensive catalyst who draws top checkers. Tanguay is more of a complimentary player who thrives when the checking isn't focused on him. We'd have to be darn sure about having a guy that can handle the checking duties to justify signing Tanguay at the expense of Kovalev, IMO. And that could happen, if the Kostitsyns look ready for it. That's kind of the key factor in this equation, IMO.

Saku looks like the safest bet to stay of the UFA forwards, which is weird because he seems to be the most on the decline at this point. But he plays a position that we are weakest at, and plays it well in a complimentary role. Also, his role as team captain can't be dismissed.

It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. And maybe there will be enough room to keep all the top free agents... you never know. If a couple guys take less than market value, and the cap goes up significantly again... it could happen.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I will be stunned if Koivu is not re-signed. He is the uncontested leader of the team, and is the kind of guy Gainey clearly wants to have around for all sorts of reasons. However, unless he enjoys a rebound year he will have to consider a substantial pay cut. That could get very sticky - I hope not, but we've never really seen Koivu in a position where he has to accept less. He's such a competitor that I wouldn't be surprised if he reacts negatively.

I've said many times that resigning Kovalev is not a no-brainer. If he puts together another season like this past one, which is hardly guaranteed, then a 2-year deal might make sense. Otherwise, I'd consider letting a 36-year-old notoriously inconsistent player walk. (Trading him at the deadline might not be a great move if the team is playing very well; in that context, keeping him would be the equivalent of a rental player). Remember, he can be expected to command significant dollars, and these could be better allocated on locking up guys like Komisarek.

Kostopolous needs to stay. He is a real, legitimate grinder in the classic mould, and he'll come fairly cheap. Begin and Bouillon, well, they've been valued members of the team, but we've more or less outgrown them, barring massive pay cuts.

Much will ultimately hinge, of course, on how the young guns do. If Kosty has a breakout year, the loss of Kovy will seem less of a big deal. It's all about succession.

Edited August 19, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber