habs rule Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 One good game from Condon and a bad game from Tokarski shouldn't create a controversy. It is, after all, only preseason. However, Condon's performance should guarantee him at least another look. As for what they're going to do with Condon, a lot depends on their view of Tokarski and, to a lesser degree, Fucale. Do they view Tokarski as an asset or just a cheap roster filler? If it's the former, they'll show patience with him but if it's the latter, they'd be more comfortable waiving him to make room for Condon. As for what Fucale has to do with this, the question is whether or not they're comfortable with him potentially starting right away in St. John's, a scenario that could occur if they waive Tokarski (and someone claims him). If they're not, they may want Condon in St. John's to start at the very least. It's not a matter of if Condon takes the #2 job but rather a matter of when, something I've been saying since late last season. I wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't happen right away though even if Condon outplays Tokarski the rest of the preseason. If they don't want Tokarski as the backup, they could always scoop someone off waivers to replace him and keep Condon starting with the IceCaps. So we do have a mini contovery. As always I am ahead of the curve. However back to reality, Condon is 6' 2" and looks very good at this stage. Yeah it is going to take more than 1/2 of one game, to decide but I see him putting a lot of pressure on Le Genius to play him more. Tinordi needs to play more, it is exhibition for crying ot loud. If you aren't going to give him a chance now then just get rid of him. Beaulieu needs more minutes, he looked pretty good to me. I really don't care how many mistakes Tinordi makes right now that is what preseason is for. Markov has a good shot at making the club, we know what he can do, as a fellow named John said " we hope he passed the audition". There may be some sarcasm there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 TSN690 were just all over Tinordi (and Toker) as looking shaky, but they said Beaulieu, Lernout and Condon were the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I want the Habs to ride or die with Tinordi. Still believe he can find his game of be a permanent NHLer. But these days, it looks like we might have to die with Tinordi as opposed to ride with him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Regarding Flynn in the shootout yesterday, it should be noted that he's a career 3/5 in the end of game skills competition (2/2 last year). Just a bit of context for that decision... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 First, I haven't watched the games, so I'm admittedly relying on second-hand info. But commentators seem pretty unanimous that Tinordi has not looked convincing. Yes, you give Tinordi lots of ice in preseason. That's a no-brainer. He's a high-profile prospect at a make-or-break point in his career in the organization. You have to give him every chance to get comfortable and start showing he belongs. But if he fails to show that he belongs - even in preseason when the competition is notoriously slack - then what? 1. Keep him with the big club as a black ace. So he gets minimal ice. This seems like a terrible idea for his development, unless you think he'll never be more than a boderline player. 2. Keep him with the big club and dress him over superior alternatives in the mystical belief that he will somehow eventually stop sucking. This is a terrible idea because, first, if he suck, he hurts the team; second, because superior performance should be rewarded, not punished; and third, just because it's based on a mystical belief rather than rational analysis. 3. Send him to the AHL and cross your fingers he doesn't get plucked on waivers. I suspect many around here will argue for (2). But because I don't think NHL teams are affirmative action programs for beloved prospects who consistently fail to deliver, I'd prefer option (3) or (1) to this. Let's hope he starts turning in convincing performances and makes the case for joining the big club strictly on merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 First, I haven't watched the games, so I'm admittedly relying on second-hand info. But commentators seem pretty unanimous that Tinordi has not looked convincing. Yes, you give Tinordi lots of ice in preseason. That's a no-brainer. He's a high-profile prospect at a make-or-break point in his career in the organization. You have to give him every chance to get comfortable and start showing he belongs. But if he fails to show that he belongs - even in preseason when the competition is notoriously slack - then what? 1. Keep him with the big club as a black ace. So he gets minimal ice. This seems like a terrible idea for his development, unless you think he'll never be more than a boderline player. 2. Keep him with the big club and dress him over superior alternatives in the mystical belief that he will somehow eventually stop sucking. This is a terrible idea because, first, if he suck, he hurts the team; second, because superior performance should be rewarded, not punished; and third, just because it's based on a mystical belief rather than rational analysis. 3. Send him to the AHL and cross your fingers he doesn't get plucked on waivers. I suspect many around here will argue for (2). But because I don't think NHL teams are affirmative action programs for beloved prospects who consistently fail to deliver, I'd prefer option (3) or (1) to this. Let's hope he starts turning in convincing performances and makes the case for joining the big club strictly on merit. First you play him lots in the preseason, and give him a real chance. If he can't make then it is option 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 But if he fails to show that he belongs - even in preseason when the competition is notoriously slack - then what? 1. Keep him with the big club as a black ace. So he gets minimal ice. This seems like a terrible idea for his development, unless you think he'll never be more than a boderline player. 2. Keep him with the big club and dress him over superior alternatives in the mystical belief that he will somehow eventually stop sucking. This is a terrible idea because, first, if he suck, he hurts the team; second, because superior performance should be rewarded, not punished; and third, just because it's based on a mystical belief rather than rational analysis. 3. Send him to the AHL and cross your fingers he doesn't get plucked on waivers. I suspect many around here will argue for (2). But because I don't think NHL teams are affirmative action programs for beloved prospects who consistently fail to deliver, I'd prefer option (3) or (1) to this. 4. Trade him for whatever you can get, a pick or another underachieving prospect and start the cycle again. That way, you're not wasting an end-of-roster spot on someone that you don't think is going to have an impact. If the Habs feel after the preseason that he is what he is and isn't going to get much better, I like option 4. If they still think he has some upside, then you go with option 1 and hope that practicing against NHL'ers regularly helps over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I honestly think Tinordi clears if we send him down. We should first explore a trade of course, and if nobody is biting, then just try sending him down. Say we keep him up so he plays games when a guy on the left gets injured. What if the LD stays healthy? What if we play him and he's still terrible? Do we continue to keep him up instead of Barberio, who looked a lot better? This wouldn't be the teams fault. He'd be wasted in the press box and a liability on the ice. What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I honestly think Tinordi clears if we send him down. We should first explore a trade of course, and if nobody is biting, then just try sending him down. Say we keep him up so he plays games when a guy on the left gets injured. What if the LD stays healthy? What if we play him and he's still terrible? Do we continue to keep him up instead of Barberio, who looked a lot better? This wouldn't be the teams fault. He'd be wasted in the press box and a liability on the ice. What do you do? If we send him down it would not suprise me if Boston pick him up. They have big d problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 First you play him lots in the preseason, and give him a real chance. If he can't make then it is option 3. Yep, give him every chance in preseason. Yep, try to trade him if he doesn't make it. Don't know why I left that out of my little list of options - it's obviously better to both get some sort of return, even it's marginal, and also control where he lands, than just throw him to the waiver wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 If he has to go through a trade because he keeps failing to become an NHLer with us, so be it. Out West and byebye. But send him to waivers would totally be a poor GMing move. No chance at all that none of the other 29 teams won't take a chance on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 If he has to go through a trade because he keeps failing to become an NHLer with us, so be it. Out West and byebye. But send him to waivers would totally be a poor GMing move. No chance at all that none of the other 29 teams won't take a chance on him. Well sometimes you just have no choice. If there is no trade to be had and he isn't good enough, who's spot does he take? Unfortunately life happens when you had other plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Well sometimes you just have no choice. If there is no trade to be had and he isn't good enough, who's spot does he take? Unfortunately life happens when you had other plans. Yeah, exactly. What are you going to do, keep an ineffective player in your lineup - to the team's detriment and his own - just so you don't lose him on waivers? No doubt people will get on their high horse to attack Bergy, but if the kid can't even deliver a solid training camp at this stage, the attack won't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 If Bergevin can't get a 7th rounder for Tinordi, fire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 If Bergevin can't get a 7th rounder for Tinordi, fire him. Someone would pay that but if he hits the waiver wire, it means that no one was willing to trade anything of value. That wouldn't necessarily be Bergevin's fault but rather a reality of the situation - he has struggled and there will be several other young guys on the fringes available for free in the next week and a bit. Why trade for a young #7 when you can get one for nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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