hab29RETIRED

I think you are giving gainey to much credit. We dodged a HUGE bullet, not once, but TWICE, that was part of his great master plan that preceded the signing of Gomez, and that was only due to the incompetence and stupidity of the TB ownership. How would it have been if either of these two versions being reported of the my cousin Vinny deal went down: -vinny for pleks, Subban, Higgins -vinny for price, Subban and either pleks or Higgins That was the real master plan for gainey to bring in a big centre, first it was killed during the season and then at the draft proceeding the Gomez trade. Would you even trade Subban or price straight up for everyone in Quebec's cousin Vinny and his retirement deal?? Although I think those idiotic ex-coaches and "analysts" on RDS would probably had the Quebec flag out and organized a parade!!

I think AK46 will be moved to either the red wings, nashville, or LA. I also think by the middle of next year, we will be regretting letting him go once he puts it all together.

I wouldn't hesitate to move ak for the right guy. Hemsky would be a great fit in well with our hospital ward. He is also a guy that plays soft and takes a lot of nights off. People complain of ak46, but at least he brings a physical element, is younger, and cheaper. Main point though, is why would a non-playoff team trade for a UFA, unless PG is bent on trading both kostitsyns for nothing.

If AK Iis traded straight up for Hemsky,PG should not only be fired, but should be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail, before the real humiliation rituals are begin.

Your're kidding right??? You want trade ak46 AND Subban for a UFA, when we are going to miss the playoffs???? I think Nashville would do this deal before PG even finishes with his proposal!!!! Moen for konopa???? Seriously???? You want to also trade weber for a UFA??? You do know we are going to miss the playoffs right??? What are the chances of the habs and bruins making a deal. The rare occurance has happened before, but I can't see it happening again.

Can't believe alfoe went with the home town boys before Malkin, or how early Quick was picked.

Which IMO is one of the best coaching decisions made over the last 1 1/2. Leblanc would have been playing on the 4th line and he is much better served in Hamilton, just like MaxPac was last year. Next year if we can dump Gomez, resign AK46 we could have potentially the following top 9 wingers, which look pretty good to me (assuming DD remains as a centre - I'd rather have him on the wing though): Cole-MaxPac Bourque-AK46 Gionta-Leblanc The wild card is Gallagher. He had a great camp this year, my preference would be for him to at least start the year in Hamilton, but if he plays his way on the team and is used in the TOP SIX or TOP NINE minimum, I wouldn't have a problem with giving him a good look for the first 5 to 10 games to see if he should stay up with the habs.

I really think most people are being unfair to Weber and discounting his age, how he's been used, while willing to use the same arguments to support Subban. Weren't both of them picked in the same Draft??? Weber might have been a year earlier, but I do remember they played against each other in Junior or were in the memorial cup playoffs during the same year (getting old, losing my memory ) Anyway, I'm not saying Weber has the potential to be anywhere near the player that Subban does, but I don see Weber having the potential to be a #3 or #4 dman and a first pairing Dman on the PP, whereas Subban has the potential to be a Norris winner. Look at how Weber has been used. He has constantly been shuffled back and forth from defence to forward as a 20, 21 and 22 year old. He needs to learn to play defence to improve that part of the game, but instead he is being asked to play a 4th line Dman role - that is just plain stupidity!! I think 3 years from now, we'll all be discussing how we gave away a good Dman, if we give him up for a middle or low draft pick or a 4th liner that some have suggested. The guy is 22 or 23 years old. He has a rocket for a shot and wasnt that bad of a Dman defensively in Junior. If PG trades him for anything less then a 2nd rounder for him, he is an idiot. Even then, I'd be hesitant, I'd much rather pick up a good prospect who can make an impact sooner.

Forgot about Gagner. Weren't they trying to move him. I do think they need a veteran with some skill. To me Belanger is a great 4th liner. How Horcoff got the money he did is beyond me. I think Edmonton was in a similar situation as Montreal is. Montreal has to pay stupid money to make up for the ridiculous tax situation. Edmonton has to pay stupid money to get people to be willing to live there, but still the Horcoff contract is just ridiculous. If there is an amnesty period, that is one contract they need to buy out. I really think they will go for a Dman this year. You can go on drafting forwards for so long. they need a stud on Defense and i don't think they would to sorry about dropping down one or two spots and taking a dman.

Not sure what Edmonton's cap situation is - I do know they have that crappy Horcoff salary and frankly, as much as i can't stand Gomez, I'd rather have him over Horcoff. With Hemsky moving on and I think Khabibulin comes off the books at the end of next year (could be wrong), I think they would be able to absorb Gomez's salary. I really think they do need to someone like gomez to play with their kids, because as i've said earlier, the one positive about Gomez has been the good feedback he has gotten from our young kids and how they said he's helped them. I also think that with guys like Eberle, Hall, Smyth, EDmonton needs another centre and Gomez could not only provide veteran leadership, but also replace Hemsky's playmaking ability. I also really think that Weber will be a top 4 Dman once he leaves Montreal. With the right coaching and opportunity, I can see him being as effective or better then Liles and has the potential to be a Rafalski type of player.

I think that possibly next year and for sure the next year IF AND ONLY IF gomez continues to play like he has the last couple of games, a team needing to get to the floor and looking for a salary that is lower then the cap hit (next year, i think his cap hit is $2.3M less then his salary and the following year $3.3M less), they may bite. I did read hear that Florida was interested (why we didn't move him is beyond me!!!). Edmonton is really struggling and needs a veteran presence other then Smyth and Horcoff and needs another playmaker to take the pressure off RNH and for whatever issues we have had with Gomez's production, our the young guys (MaxPac, Subban, DD) have spoken very highly of Gomez.

I don't want Leblanc up here. Yesterday turned out to be a great night, but could have been a blow out the other way. Let him get a chance to dominate at the AHL level and come back next year. I'd rather have him on the top line in Hamilton then the 4th line in Montreal.

I fad actually posted around 2 or 3 months ago tha paajarvi is a guy I would target. Edmonton is also a team that I think might want Gomez for his veteran presence and his declining salary vs his cap hit. As long as Edmonton is not on gomez's no trade list, I really think it would be a great fit for both teams and gomez, given the number of skilled guys he would have a chance to play with. Paajarvi for Gomez and weber?? Could turn out to be a Sam pollack move that gets Edmonton higher int the standings this year so we can improve our draft position.

Well, we lost our #1 prospect for him, so I guess, he wants to make sure we don't fail for nail as well!!

Gotta say, Gomez actually looked like a hockey player tonight!

You picked the WRONG tame to skip!!!!

This is friggin unbelievable - so is this the Roy Revenge game??? Seriously though, if the wings come back and win this game, I think i'm just going to cry and cry and cry and may require some prozac.

Until last year, it had been a LONG time since Kaberle has been in the playoffs and looks like he is going to be on the outside looking in. With the constant losing, I really don't get why he and Sundin kept blocking trades. To me it just speaks to their desire to win and choosing the comfort of a losing environment over a dersire to win. But then I've also never understood why anyone would want to sign with losing teams that have always sucked. The compititor in me would think players would forgoe some cash for the chance to win. I'd gladly take $4m and a chance to win year in year out, by at LEAST having a shot at the playoffs then signing with a preanneaul loser for $5.5m.

You know, I think, part of the reason some guys like maxpac and cole may br reluctant to park themselves in front of the reason (and stay there) is two fold. First of all the shot from the point is either not coming through, or the defense is passing it around so much, thT to retain possession these guys need to go into the corners. The other reason I see, is that too many times this year the shots from the dman have been wild - high or wide - and instead of the dman getting shots going through, they have been hitting our forwards a little bit too often for their comfort. I also wonder why they don't take more quick wrist shots then seemingly trying or hoping to put it through people with the big windups we are seeing. The dman need to concentrate on accurracy and greeting shots through that can be deflected and tipped rather then simply going for velocity. Based on the shots I've seen being taken , it makes me wonder how much this is being worked on in practice, or they have very highly ineffective practices.

I thought this was a reference to him scoring a goal at the fans/skills practice!! Did he at least score there??

I think you need to go beyond the numbers and stats. I think you also have to look at what a player does to make his team better. There are a lot of players who put up good numbers on crappy teams, but really don't improve the team's position in the standings. While some of this has to do with the guys they are playing with (after all, they are on a crappy team), a lot of these guys really don't help teams when they go to another team. Take the ex-Florida panthers as an example. Jokenin has always been a loser, never made the playoffs with a Florida team that had a ton of young talent that couldn't put it together (Martin never was able to get them over the hump as a coach or GM either). Both the Flames and Coyotes tried him, but up decent numbers, I think he only was in the playoffs one year, but could not help the team get wins on the nights they needed to get the win to make the playoffs. Bouwmeester is another guy who was a top draft pick (can't remember if he was #1 or #2 overall), never won anything in the juniors or NHL (except iwth Team Canada), never was able to get his team in the playoffs, goes to the flames and hasn't been in the playoffs with him on the team. It looks to me that Phaneuf was the guy I'd rather have kept. Bouwmeester puts up decent indivdiual numbers, IMO he is MUCH more skilled then Phaneuf, but really doesn't improve the players around him. WHile I'm not much of a Phaneuf fan, i'd take in a heart beat over Bouwmeester or Kaberle. I think Phaneuf was in a similar position with Calgary, as Subban is in Montreal now - which really has me worried. issues i see with both Jokinen and bouwmwester is lack of passion, doesn't seem like there is any fire in their belly or desire to want ot win. The only panther that has done well and has a completely different attidude unfortunatley is Horton. It pisses me off that the Bruins got this guy so cheap. But he plays with passion and even in Florida, there were nights were the guy was a beast, but he was stuck in a losing enviroment. The 2004 to 2009 leafs are very similar. A lot of them seemed like they were content with losing. Teams that acquired players from those teams suck - look at the number of players that played on those leafs teams that were acquired by Carolina and look were Carolina is today. I really think guys that have been in a losing environemnt and play like they have become comfortable in that environment take that complancy wherever they go. That to me in a nutshell, why I don't want Kaberle around. IMO that is also the type of losing mindset that Cammy referenced. Frankly, I don't care if we have a dman who puts up 55 to 60 points or a forward who gets 85 points and we miss the playoffs, or barely squeak into the playoffs and get thumped. I want a team and players commited to winning. Don't care if we have a bunch of 60 point forwards as long as we win. Yes, I miss the days of Lafleur, Shutt, Naslund, Smith, Muller Bellows and Damphouse and really hope we can snag a guy at the draft who can give us a consistent 85-90 point guy, but not if the guy is not someone who can make other around him better, or a guy who will be comfortable staying in and signing on long-term with a team that has always lost and will always lose (I really don't get Nash's willingness to sign long-term with Columbus).

I saw this thread, after posting on another thread and am basically revised my posting for this thread. While I want to stock up on picks this year, since we are NOT making the playoffs, I do want to make sure we aren't giving up a guy who still has to be a top 3 or top 4 dman. I know he is the same size, similar type of player RIGHT NOW as Diaz - heck they are both swiss born to boot - I think in another year or two, Weber will be the better dman. Weber is a lot younger then Diaz, more skilled, has a better shot, is a bit more physical, still has the potential to become a lot stronger then Diaz as he gets a little older and starts training more in the off season. Nobody on this board disagrees about giving up or moving Subban given his age. However, for some reason no one is willing to give the same time for Weber to mature as a player. I get the Subban is clearly the better player, but whose to say tha Weber will not at least become better then Wiz was in another year or two - given that that he is given a REAL OPPPERTUNITY to develop as an NHL DEFENSEMAN. i really have an issue on how Martin handled Weber. As i've said a number of times in previous posts, it makes zero sense to me that you would shuffle a 20 or 21 year old defenseman back and forth between forward and defense. Is there any wonder why he seems so lost out there??? It's one thing to do that with a 26 year old Streit, who actually has played the position for a number of years, but it just seems utter stupidity to do it with a kid learning the pro game. Frankly, I think that if Weber is traded and given an oppertunity to DEVELOP as a DEFENSEMAN, within 2 years and he will be a MUCH better dman then diaz and could potentially be a top 3 or 4 dman. I really don't think the habs should move Weber unless they can get a 2nd round pick - and even then, I think unless we made good use of that 2nd pick, we would probably regret the trade in two years. I don' think there will be a shortage of teams willing to give up a 2nd round pick for a young dman who has the potential to be a stud on the PP. I get we have a lot of right hand dman. I get that we have a guy in Diaz who RIGHT NOW seems very similar to Weber, but we are talking about two guys at very different times in their development and maturity, experience, as well as physically. Frankly, if I had a choice of moving Kaberle or Weber at the deadline, I'd move Kaberle and work on improving and developing Weber. Defensively, Kaberle is as good as he will ever be - which is pretty crappy. IMO, Weber can become just as effective as Wiz was on the PP, but could also be much better defensively. While I get there is no room to have two similar dman in Weber and Diaz, does it really matter about keeping the better dman this year, when its a loss season anyways??? If weber does become the better dman next year, or the year after (when we are hopefully a playoff team), isn't it more important to have the better player at that time, then it is now???

With respect to the many comments I've posted during the last two years of why I think the habs should have and should try and get Robinson in as an assistant coach to work with Subban and other young dman. here's a great article from Bobby Holik, giving his take on Subban and mentions his own experience with Robinson and Lemaire: http://holikonhockey.com/bobby-blog/pk-subban/ I think he nails it on the head and has the same opinion of how to handle Subban as I do and why I've hated how Martin has handled Subban. I also have issue with how he handled Weber. Frankly, I think that if Weber is traded within 2 years he will be a MUCH better dman then diaz and could potentially be a top 3 dman. What possessed the coaching staff to constantly shuffle a 20-21 year old between defense and forward is beyond me. It's no wonder the kid is messed up at the blue line. It's one thing to do that with a 26 year old Streit, who actually has played the position for a number of years, but it just seems utter stupidity to do it with a kid learning the pro game. I really don't think the habs should move Weber unless they can get a 2nd round pick with him and I don' think there will be a shortage of teams willing to give up a 2nd round pick for a young dman who has the potential to be a stud on the PP. I get we have a lot of right hand dman. But if I had a choice of moving Kaberle or Weber at the deadline, I'd move Kaberle and work on improving and developing Weber. Defensively, Kaberle is as good as he will ever be - which is pretty crappy. IMO, Weber can become just as effective as Wiz was on the PP, but could also be much better defensively. While I get there is no room to have two similar dman in Weber and Diaz, does it really matter about keeping the better dman this year, when its a loss season anyways??? If weber does become the better dman next year, or the year after (when we are hopefully a playoff team), isn't it more important to have the better player at that time, then it is now???

Good god, I want to get rid of Kaberle, but there is no friggin way I'd replace him with hamrlik!!! At least we MIGHT get someone to take Kaberle of our hands without being screwed over with dead cap weight next year that can't be moved and is pretty much washed up. There is a REASON why we didn't want to give him a two year deal. The hamrlik Washington is seeing is the reason why we wouldn't comit to him.

My fear is we go after penner and stoll