hab29RETIRED

Great down 2-1 and still no MaxPac

Man, Gill looked horrible on that play

ended up having RDS in hotel here, so I've been able to watch the gaem. Team looked better then the last two games, but this is FLorida. Will be pissed, off if Weber gets traded. Oh and Budaj gets bumped and no response by habs Yep and Cole has no place on the PP Good call Penguin!

frankly I'd rather have Emelin and Diaz in the lineup over Spacek. He was tops on the list of Dmen I did now want back this year.

That doesn't make sense - he definitely isn't a penguin type player. It doesnt make sense forthe oilers either since they need a dman. I can't see them interested in anyone other then weber, which doesn't make sense for us. So if there is any truth in this rumour they are probably looking for a more experienced winger like AK46- and I really wouldn't want to make that deal.

I'm in St. John's, NL until tonight and then off to Mississauga tomorrow afternoon. Anyone know if the Habs-Florida game can be seen anywhere in St. John's??

Yep, JM "developed" Hossa, Alfreddson, Havlat. If it was any other coach those guys wouldn't have been studs. Redden and Phillips were seen as can't miss top high draft picks (#1/#2). Those guys would never have been great players if someone else were their coaches Hell, even Milbury would have had a hard time in not developing those guys - although he probably would have traded them for the chance to draft more americans that he could sign to 15 year deals As far as O'byrne goes, he is a top four Dman on the Avalanche, who aren't doing to shabby right now.

From what I understood, when the habs acquired Pouliot, he still had eligibility to be in Hamilton. Weber could have stayed in Hamilton last year, rather then be used as a forward.

Bouwmeester wanted nothing to do with Martin. may have had a good year with him, but didn't like playing for him. That's like saying that MaxPac did not discover his game in Hamiltion last year, but it was JM that was the reason that MaxPac started becoming an offensive force. MaxPac, SK74, Lats, Pouliot, Ak46 all have complained about JM's communcation skills as a coach and how they have been used by JM. Subban would never have progressed if it wasn't becuase of injuires. Weber who is now playing over 20 minutes would still be a forward if it wasn't for injuries. O'byrne is playing over 20 minutes for the avalanche but wasn't good enough to be a 7th dman for the penguin. Eller is only getting a chance to finally play centre because of injuries to one of JM's free-pass boys Gomez. There is a pattern here, young players has success (eller, MaxPac, Subban, Weber), and its only when JM is forced to use them, rather then chooses them over his non-performing veterns.

That's part of the issue, but the bigger issue is that Habs management have pushed to many young players in before they are read, don't make them pay their dues, which is what really leads to the entitlement issues. Ribeiro, Lats, SK74, MaxPac should never have been brought in at their age. WHen they traded for Pouliot, he should have been down in the minors longer, but that would have made mgmt look bad for trading lats. The entitlement comes from management rushing players in before they are ready or shown that the work ethic and hunger to deserve their chance. Now we have a young Dman like Weber who either needs to be played as a Dman and you live with his mistakes, or you send him down to Hamilton. Instead the penguin has been using him as a forward.

I'm saying I know nothing about him, because I haven't actually seen him play. I saw his NHL stats - which don't really say the type of player he is, but they do show that never played a full NHL season yet. I'm not assuming he doesn't hit because he is from Finland. Saku was undersized and wouldn't hesitate to nail Chara. Trotter still may develop into an offensive player, who you say is 25 years old and therefore will probably not make it - his main issue is size. He progressed nicely in the KHL last year. On the other hand Nokelainen is one year older and hasn't shown an ability to stick as a regular nhler.

The issue is how the habs handle their kids. How many talented young players have we given up on and handled badly - Ribeiro, Lats, Grabs, SK74, Pouliot. While there are issues with the players, don't you think how we handle young players have a hand in them not succeeding in Montreal? Only one player on our team had more points then SK74 last year and the return for him was a joke. The return for Ribiero was a joke, Lats was move for Pouliot and we got nothing for Pouliot. The return for Sk74 were two UFA's. UFA's that we could have signed in two days, one of which who didn't sign with us anyways. That is just plain idiotic asset management. The habs addition by subtraction policy isn't very smart and is lousy asset management.

well, it looks like the goat and the penguin have love affairs for 4th liners. So I think we will soon see this guy on the habs PP, particularly if its a 5 on 3 PP.

I don't think he is the 4th line centre we are looking for or need. I think we need an experienced hitting and banging 4th line centre. Nokelainen may fill that role, but considering our young players, i would have preferered going or a vetern option. I don't like giving up on Trotter - a guy with a lot of offensive potential - for a fourth line role player who is himself a journeyman and hasn't proven himself to be an everyday player.

Great - i just posted early this morning in the leafs game thread, that i wanted Palushaj out and Trotter in and the habs trade him. Don't know anything about Noelainen, but looks like we traded a longshot prospect for a career minor league prospect. Yippy, I think this move will turn things around.

if we end up moving AK46 or weber, I'm going to be pretty pissed.

Typical Peckland. There may be a trade is not the same thing as trade has occured.

What you are saying is contrary to the story reported by Stubbs. Stubbs quoted Robinson saying that he called Gainey and asked for an assistant coach role - not interested in being a head coach and gainey said that he would talk in the off season and never returned his call. Robinson called again, got no response and the finally went to NJ as an assistant coach when he got nothing but silence from the habs. Robinson is still coaching. St Louis also had issues with their young players. They didn't trade them for UFA's, they suspended and disciplined them. In SK74's case, his missing practices occured AFTER JM singled him out in camp after SK74 came back from an injury in camp.

PeckLand says the habs and coyotes have made a trade - anyone hear about this, is this true??? Wet dream would be Gomez for Turris, but that ain't happening

From what I read at the time, the habs offered 4.5M, Carolina offered $4M and then the habs also sweetened the offer by adding an extra year, which was the clincher for Cole. How much of Colorado's cup win can be attributed to Hartley. I think the Avalanche won in spite of Hatley, then him leading them to the finals. I have the same opinion of the penguin.

There is a big difference in benching a guy, or sitting a guy for a while and the way that Martin was handling him. Subban did not improve until Martin had no choice to use him. when he could play without fear of being benched for every mistake. You have to EXPECT a 21/22 year old to make mistakes and learn from them. At that age, you don't let a guy rot on the bench or the pressbox. either you send them down or play with the guy and teach him - which of course is a problem with the penguin, he seems to talk more to his players through the media (i.e. shot at AK46 last year and Cole this year), or for effect (ie. singling out SK74 as his whipping boy in training camp two years ago). Another bonehead move by Gainey was ignoring and brushing off Robinson, when the big bird asked for an assistant coaching job. JM and Pearn are so much better then a habs legend who has a proven track record as an NHL all-star, norris winner, cup champion, Conn Smythe winner, Cup winning coach and developer of young defencemen.

I have been saying, since JM came on he is the wrong man for the job. His handling of SK74, O'Byrne, treatment of AK46, Cole, idiotic use of Darche, Moen, love for Pyatt and free passes to Gomez, spacek and Hamrlik show how stupid of a coach he is, as well as terrible in DEVELOPING players. Subban and Macpac developed IN SPITE of Martin. Subban would not have got a chance to demonstrate the player he CAN be, if Spacek and Gorges didn't get hurt. MaxPac pretty much said as much last year, before being recalled. Even thought the habs went to the final 4, I said that offseason we should fire JM and hire Boucher and everyone here said I was nuts. I'm actually hoping we lose against the panthers - and I'm about as die hard of a habs fan as you can get. We need to make a move NOW. If that means losing to the lowly panthers, so be it. I don't want the habs to make a move too late like the devils did last year. As for Gainey, he is done. He had is chance. Loved him as a player hated him as a GM. The fact that he even considered offering Kovolev a deal and went to Gionta as a backup plan, shows he is not the guy to lead the team - even in an interim role. The Gomez trade was utter stupidity - Sather should have been offering the habs his #1, #2 and #3 picks to take Gomez off his hands, instead we gave him Higgins and one of our best defensive prospects. Hiring JM was desperation. people keep on harping going to the final four. I say we went to the final four in spite of the penguin, not because of him.

Yep. When we signed him, I said 4 years was too long of a deal, especially since we were already paying him at least $500k more then he was worth. Gainey already made the same mistake with Spacek, his protege the goat followed it up by giving Cole more money AND a longer contract then he is worth. Cole CAN be a solid 25 goal scorer with the habs with the right situation, but I would have been MUCH happier if the habs had spent $4M/year on a 5 year deal for AK46.

By what definition is he a good coach. The penguins regular season record is 601W, 549L, 119L. Hardly good an impressive record. He's won over 600 games, but lost well over 500 games. Not what i'd consider a hall of fame coach even if you ignore his utter failure and inability to win in the playoffs (to me winning is winning the cup). He was NEVER going to get another coaching job, if Gainey didn't come knocking. Florida was thrilled to dump him as their GM when Gainey made the number four and number five all time WORST decisions in canadians history in one summer when he traded for gomez and signed Martin (#1 being passing over Bowman for the GM job, #2 trading Roy, #3 Corey hiring Houle/Tremblay).

That would never happen with JM - Bouwmeester didn't like the Penguin in Florida. while I want the penguin gone, not sure if I want Bouwmeester - very talanted no doubt, but what does it say about a guy who has NEVER made the playoffs, despite being in the league almost 10 years. I think if we did trade for him, we definitely miss the playoffs.