hab29RETIRED

Barraso was around 24 or 25 when he went to Pittsburgh. He broke in with the sabres after Bowman drafted him out of high school. He seemed to be "over the hill" after winning the vezina and calder as a rookie and then had a drop in his play. Personally, i really don't consider him to be an elite goalie, but l think he is more like Osgood or Fleury, benefited from playing on a stacked team. however, he did win two cups and along with Fuhr, Hextall, Roy, Hasak, Joseph, was considered one of the elite goalies of the eras he played in. To me he is more of a tier two like Moog, Lemelin, Peters who had a few dominent seasons, but really benefited from the team in front of him. I agree that Huet was over-rated - personally, I was never a fan - I'm still pissed at Carbo for playing him over Halak in that last game against the Leafs a few years back when the habs lost 6-5 and got knocked out of the playoffs. However, given his stats and play for the Habs (considered his breakout, he should have yielded more. Rumour is that he was part of Gainey's package for Hossa (hedberg was supposed to also come to the Habs), however that deal got killed when Pittsburgh picked up Hossa. Gainey who wanted to move Huet, then dumped him to the caps. Bryzzie, like Halak wanted more playing time, Burke was trying to dump his salary as he had cap issues. I would say he WAS a second tier goalie, he MAY become a tier one goalie, much the same way that Kipper did. The reason I've included them, is that like Halak, and around the same age, once they were given a chance they progressed to become #1 goalies and may arguebly become better goalies then the guys they backed up. Kipper has become a tier 1 goalie (hard to say who will be looked back 10 years from now as being the better goalie) and IMO, Bryzzie is on his way. I think when looking at Halak and Price, we have to wonder, is halak going to be like Kipper and be a legitimate #1 or be a flash in the pan like Jim Carrey the Net Detective??? Similarly with Price, will he ever have the focus to become a GREAT DOMINENT goalie, or will he be a guy like a Barrasso, who CAN be a GOOD goalie in the right conditions?? I think we have not seen enough of either goalie yet, to be able to make that determination, which is why I would hang on to both for another year.

watching Pkeks at the games and the chemistry he is showing with Elias. I can see Elias asking him to wait for July and sign with NJ. Is there any player who more embodies the Lou Lamirollo style then Pleks??? Great two way player, PP and PK specialist, great 5 on 5. I am REALLY afraid the habs are either going to give him away in a dumb trade at the deadline or lose him for nothing. They really need to move him. Capwise its going to be tough- but it is doable. SIgn him now, move Hamrlik at the deadline for an expiring contract and then move Gomez during the summer. I know people keep on saying moving Gomez would adversely effect the habs chances of attracting UFA's. Boston and NYR have consistently dumped bad signings and it hasn't hur their chances of signing more UFA's. I have a bad feeling that Gauthier is going to make bonehead moves that will see us lose one of our goalies, SK74 and Pleks at the deadline. IMO opinion all three of these moves would hurt us long-term. Our number one need is to give our youth a chance next year to become an integral part of the core (two goalies, Pouliot, SK74, Subban) and dump our epensive salaries (gomez, Hamrlik and Spacek). The guys that Gauthier should be trying to move are as I've already mentioned, Gomez, Hamrlik, Spacek, along with impending UFA's like Mara, Metro, Dags (not much of a cap hit, but waste of a roster spot that is still tied up with Laraque). Who knows, the Pens may also be interested in getting back Gill. The moves at the deadline NEED to be made with an eye towards next year, but still help us to get into the playoffs. However, we CANNOT afford to make dumb moves just to get into the playoffs this year.

Sign PLEKS!!

Agreed, I get lazy, or often reply on my iphone. The repetion was bcoz my keyboard is fxcd up! The habs traded Huet to a team in their conference for a 2nd round pick. which at the time seemed ridiciolus. Anaheim also traded Ilya Brzzxx (to lazy to look up the spelling) to Phoenix for a song. SJ gave away Kipper (prior to him breaking out). So these deals do happen. If you go back further Buffalo traded Barraso to Pittsburgh. Bottom line is that Teams like Philly and Ottawa have always underestimated the importance of goaltending, despite repeatly losing playoff series due to goaltending. The only team that has done well with average goaltending is Detroit. However, i would argue that last year, it finally caught up with them when Osgood wasn't up to par in the finals.

The only goalie who has consistently been willing to resign for a hometown discount has been Marty Brodeur - and that's because he is smart enough to realize that part of his stats can be attributed to the insulated NJ system he plays behind. Post lockout, both Luongo was traded - becuase it didn't look like he was willing to resign with Florida, and Vokoum was traded from Nashville to Florida. Had idiotic GM's who have consistently lacked goaltending (hello Philly & hello Ottawa), not continously given stupid money to forwards having career years and continued their trend of skimping on goaltending, they could have obtained either - especially given the return for either. Luongo may as well have been traded for a bag of pucks then a washout like Bertuzzi. At least Vokoum went for a 1st and 2nd. I would much rather give up a 1st and 2nd for a PROVEN goalie then risk a High draft pick (read top ten) on an 18 year old goalie who probably won't be valuable until he is 24. Moreover, if that goalie was brought up at 18, he is a free agent at 25, otherwise will be a UFA at either 26 or 27 - which is when he will be peaking. There have been very few goalies that went on to instant success close out of their teens. Cam Ward backstopped the hurricanes to a cup (thanks to a non-call on Koivu almost being blinded ), but even he has been hot and cold since, and probably will be until he becomes more consistent with age. Bottom line is that for whatever reason, NHL Gm's seem unwilling to pay the big bucks or make a trade for a proven goalie (pre and post-lockout), mainly because for whatever reason, they are relunctant to give up cap room or players for a top notch goalie. They skimp out and are willing to spend between 4-4.5M to washouts or journeyman who had career years like Theodore and huet, but are generally unwilling to give more to a proven goalie who is on top of his game. Otherwise you have desperate GM's like Edmonton who are willing to pay for washouts like Khabibulin. However teams like Philly will sign guys to long term stupid deal (Briere), or trade for an aging Dman, but can't seem to realize that the need to be willing to either give up cap room or players for a top end goalie. I don't get the rationale, bcoz if you look at teams that get to the finals or teams that win the cup, its usually on the back of their goalie and it usually is the goalie that wins the conn smythe or is on the top of the list of conn smythe contenders. This year Nabakov will be available if the Sharks don't win the cup. If i'm a team like Philly I'd be dumping salary to pick him up. He will probably be blamed for SJ if they don't have a good show in the playoffs - despite the fact that they are being led by carefree Joe. If Price is still here by the time he is 26, I really don't see him resigning with the Habs. lets face it he already seems soured at the Montreal experience and despite whatever success he has, I think he will be gone at the first oppertunity he gets. So to all of the Dump Halak now crowd, be carefull what you are wishing for - bcoz, I just can't see price wanting to stay in the montreal fishbowl. Montreal like the romans eats its young and you have to be a special breed of player to realize that as bad as the fans/media can be when things are going bad or even so-so, there is no better place to be when you are on top of your game. Unfortanately, I really don't see the habs getting on top under Gauthier and martin.

Repeat

Repeat

I don't agree. Stacked teams like Ottawa, Philly or Washington, were a goalie short for a cup run, becuase they failed to trade for the right goalie. The Sens and Flyers always tried a cheap alternative in goal - Philly in particular was VERY stupid, spending big bucks in every position except for goal. Washington also has gone with trying to pick up a second tier goalie like Huet or a washed up one like Theodore. If they had tried to pick up a guy like Vokum they would be sitting pretty right now. Goalies just take too long to develop. Who would you rather have from the following: 1997 - Luongo in hindsight ended up being a better choice then the guys who went after him, but it took him a trade in 2000 before he showed the promise of a high draft pick and took him TEN YEARS to reach the playoffs (granted he had some pretty lousy gm's - starting with Mad mike who traded him to Florida)!!!! 2000 - Depietro or Heatley/Gaborik??? 2002 - Lehtonen or Bouwmeester??? 2003 - Fleury Stall/Horton - I would have taken Stall in a heartbeat. Granted by taking Fluery the pens were able to suck for another 3-4 years and were able to also get Malkin, Fleury and Stall, but I don't think that was really by design If you look at the following goalies have dominated over the past 20 years or so, you can see that despite being stud goalies, they weren't top ten picks, or even the first goalies picked in their draft years: -Dominic Hasek - 10th round in 1983 -patrick Roy, was the 3rd or 4th goalie taken in 1984 - 3rd round -Martin Brodeur - taken 2nd or 3rd (can't remember if Potvin was ahead of him), and was around 18 or 19 in the 1st round. -Ed Belfour - undrafted in mid-80's signed as a free agent -Ryan Miller - 5th round draft pick (was between the 15th and 20th goalie taken in 1999. If you look at his career path and age when he started emerging as an elite goalie, it is very similar to halak's development. I won't bother talking about guys like Osgood or Vernon (who like Fleury played on stacked teams), or Canada WOrld Junior studs and NHL duds like Justin Pogge, Marc Denis, Dan Cloutier, Trevor Kidd. The only high draft pick goalie and world junior stud that is a cup winner is Fleury and again, he played on a stacked team. IMO, I'd rather take a position player with a top ten pick, because judging goalies as 18 year olds is too much of a crap shoot (it is also a crap shoot with forwards and d-man, but the success rate is MUCh higher. Particularly when you are talking of a top 3 or top 5 pick. Frankly I was hoping the habs would have taken Kopitar instead of Price - don't understand how he slipped down so far as he was ranked between 5-7. Even now, who wouldn't trade Price+ up for Kopitar??? Too bad the Kings would laugh Gauthier off the phone. That's why I also don't want to trade Price or Halak. I'd rather give them another year, they are both RFA's, so I'd rather qualify them (I know Halak is arbitration eligible), but i don't buy the argument other have given that Halak is playing over his head. I have liked halak since he almost got them into the playoffs 3-4 years ago, when the habs lost the last game of the year against toronto - a game i still don't forgive Carbo for starting Huet instead of Halak who put the habs in a position to have a chance at the playoffs.

Totally agree - which is a reason I HATE drafting a goalie in the top ten in the draft. ALthough, it should be pointed tha Hasek was a starter and a star with the czechs and really never wa given a chance until he went to Buffalo. You can also add Belfour to the list of late bloomers as well.

Umm, have you heard of a little guy named Hasek??

Mario Lemiuex was not only a player, but also an owner with the penguins, when he did the same thing to play in the Olympics. Not the first time this has occured and certainly won't be the last. I've no doubt he was injured and the habs wanted to keep him out until he was ready to go. With respect to the Olympics, he has a little more leeway in the decision on whether or not he is ready to go. I am glad that Belarus scatched AK46. Hopefully that will give him more time to be ready for March 2.

sad part about you being right is that, while I doubt if the slovakian women would have scored against the flyers, they probably would have scored more on the habs :puke:

I'd like the habs sent someone after that Pronger. I really don't care that whoever it is would probably get pummelled, just so long as they get some shots in on Pronger.

Gomez, Gionta and Subban are the only ones have shown up tonight.

I can't believe I left Lake Louise early so I could get home for game time. What a turkey of a game. Love Subban though. Man this kid just oozes confidence. Having said that, I hope they send him back to Hamilton so he won't get infected by the rest of these turkeys. I also fear what Martin may turn him into. God, I hope next year they SUbban brings his coach in Hamilton with him!!

WTF, early start tonight? 3-0 already? ok 3-1 now. Subban with an assit

Is Markov in?? What's the talk about AK46 going to the Olympics??

I'm not referring to the players. I'm referring to the media - most of who are solidly behind halak, as well as the fans. Who will be on Price any time he let's in a weak goal - we've seen how well he has dealt with that before.

If the Hans were to move Halak, there would be a real backlash against Price - and I really don't know if he is up to the challenge of being able to succes being able to handle that kind of pressure. On the flip side I think Price is a guy who would instantly find his game if he was to get out of the Montreal fishbowl. I'd rather see how Halak does in the playoffs and then give them equal time for the first half of next year. You could also see if either goalie gets an offer sheet, in which we would get more then the lousy 2nd rounder we got for Huet. The only way I'd move either goalie at this stage is if we were offered a deal that was too good to turn down.

+1 actualy $4.5m is more then what Andrei AND Sergei make. Two years ago I thought SK74 can be a better player then AK46 and I still believe that. This year AK was starting to show he can be a dominating scorer, while SK has shown flashes of being an elite playmaker AND a solid PK guy. I wish Martin would give him a regular oppertunity on the PP.

Yep. I'm not questioning that Moore wouldn't help in the faceoff circle. We may even recover the 2nd round pick in further trades. But there are a number of things that don't make sense. 1) EVERYONE thinks a 2nd rounder was too high of a price to pay. Moore is not having a good season and is a UFA. IF he was at least signed beyond this season, it may even be worth it. 2) Overpaying would have made sense if he was a depth move for a club that is a contender and is missing depth at the center position, so they may be willing to overpay. We are not in that position. 3) If this is precursor, for another trade that includes Moore in a package and are looking at moving 2-3 other regulars, considering the back to back games against key playoff implication games against Philly, you would want to compelte the other deals tonight, so you can have fresh bodies in for tomorrow. That doesn't appear to te the case. 4) If this is a precurser for a trade that doesn't include Moore, why wouldn't you make the key or bigger trade first - same reason as 3 - to ensure we aren't undermanned tomorrow, when we are already missing so many guys to injuries. 5) The habs ARE NOT contenders. Gauthier should have four goals. i -Resign Pleks. ii- Hang on to both goalies for next year (unless someone makes an offer you can't refuse - and I don't mean a Don Corleone offer made with a gun pointed at Gauthier ) iii- fix the cap situation - to me that can only be done by moving Gomez, Hammer and Spacek (I still don't like having a guy over 35 signed for an over-age contract when the habs are going to be up against the cap) iv-Move some of your older assets or waivable assets that probably don't fit into future plans. The objective should be to pickup picks or youth to build for next year- to me that means moving Metro, Mara, Dags I know all year people have been saying to move SK74 and there are still rumours now. I didn't agree then and don't agree now. You don't move a guy his age. Same thing for Ak46. He is a free agent next year. I would try and give SK74 every chance to stay on the top lines, get secondary PP time (which for some reason Martin refuses to do), and keep SK74 happy, so that it may factor in to make it easier to resign AK46. The guys that the habs should be identifying as their core for next year are: Goal: Halak/Price Defencemen: Markov/Gorges/O'Byrne/Gill - in the summer pick up a good SOLID defensive dman to help mentor guys like Subban and give guys like Carle a LONG look at camp. If it looks like Gill or Gorges are expandable, you can move them. But both are serviceble bottom end d-man. I'm also assuming that O'Byrne continues to progress. Centre: Pleks, I hate to move Pouliot back to center given his success at the wing, but I think we potentially have some good wingers, so lets see if Pouliot can take Gomez's positon. The other option would be to keep Pouliot on the wing and see if Cammy can play center. For the 3rd line center, send Laps home in the summer with clear instructions what the expectations are for next year, if he doesn't get a good start and have a good attitutude next year - you cut him loose. Unless Laps falters, you promote someone from Hamilton to the 4th center position Wings: I 'd like to see AK46/SK74/Cammy/Gionta as our top 4 wingers. If MaxPax is progressing have him and a guy like Deshanrais play with Laps (get a kid scoring line going). Have Moen/White on the 4th line. IF you can resign Pleks and the goalies AND pick up a good SOLID vetern D-man AND still have money for a decent centre, then I'd pick up another forward. BUt lets face it, most of the issues this year were on D. We need a TRUE #2/#3 that fits our cap. Hammer was great for most of the year and Spacek at times has been very good. However, Hammer eats up to much cap room and Spacek's age scares me - from what I understand of the CBA, since he was signed to a multi-year deal when he was over 35, the Habs are stuck with his contract regardless if he is injured or ends up having to retire. It seems like for most of the last 15 years the habs lineup has been filled with 3/4th liners and bottom pairing dman. The majority of the trades or signings seemed to be for bottom end talent. That has to end. We need to develop young players to come up in those positions. They are cheap and in a salary cap world, you need to fill you lineup with cheap guys that can play those roles. The problem with the habs is that they have been overpaying guys to play fringe roles for far too long.

I can't get rid of this sick feeling that Gauthier is going to sink us even further. I hated the signing, but two things he said kept a flicker of hope that he wouldn't be another Houle - Stating he wanted to resign Pleks and keep both goalies and they had been negotiating with Pleks. To me that meant that Gomez and/or Hamrlik would be moved - becuase that is really the only way they could afford to keep Pleks. Then Pleks in an interview states that they only had one conversation with the team and no numbers or anything specific was discussed. Reading that got me worried this morning. Then a dumb move like this.

I don't know how they can make a big 3-4 player trade, when they got a big back to back weekend against a conference rival that they are battling for. If you take 3 guys out of the lineup (not including weber if the frolov rumour is true), do you play under-manned in 2 key games before the break?? Aside for paying so much for Moore, I also don't get the timing of the move. Unless Moore was going to be involved in the subsequent trades, why wouldn't you make your big move first??? It's not like somene is going offer more for Moore??? Funny I'm just just listening to sportsnet and they can't understand how much the habs paid for Moore. How do idiot clueless GM's get hired and keep their jobs when everyone else can see how stupid of a move they are making??

If frolov was a done deal, i can't see LAK keeping him in the lineup. It happened with Joikinin, but Sutter is an idiot.

What I don't get is if this a precurser to another trade, why woudn't you make the main trade first. WHo else is going to offer a 2nd rounder for 3rd line UFA??? I could understand it if the habs were a cup favourite and needed depth as center to fill the last holes. BUt this team is playoff roadkill - if they get in! Unless they play Ottawa or Buffalo - I can't see them winning a round. And i'm even being generous about Ottawa, who I believe are over acheiving right now. The talk is that a second rounder is probably what the leafs will get for Pornikowsky or whatever his name is and he is a big scoring winger.