Link67

I agree with the notion our D currently sits somewhere in the 14th - 18th position league wide, and if not for the fact we have one of the top 10 Dmen in the league on it, likely much worse than that. it is futile to argue this point, without Markov we fall out of the top 10, it just can't be any clearer than that.

This is still a building block season for him, he really needs to make sure he is ready for a full time job next season when Plekanec is gone and he is relied on as one of the bottom 6 centers on this team.

I think at this point it has to the 30 year old 2 million guy, he is the best of the bunch at the very least, and since Jerabek is an unknown with potential, perhaps he is the guy you groom for the job during the year. the bottom line is an NHL team is comprised of all its parts, in this case, even a less than ideal defense can be helped out by an elite goalie like Price on a nightly basis. Price however cannot help our forwards score goals, and that is why I believe the right thing to do, given the current state of things, is to move forward with this D and go get a true top 6 player up front. the sum of those parts should be more of an improvement, than reinforcing the part of this team our Best Player can mitigate by himself.

Philly just won't even sniffle at that one, there will be some bad contracts involved in such a trade, but it would be more likely Shaw than Plekanec. Because of his age and his style, Shaw would entice them more, we would need to throw in either a prospect and a pick, or a high pick with him to even start the foundation to that trade. Philly doesn't need another center coming back necessarily with Nolan Patrick in the fold. What they need is capspace and a team with the capacity to take Giroux while saving them loads of cap. We are that dance partner, We could save them 3 - 4 mill on the cap, and be able to take Giroux depending on if they decide to retain a million or so of his current salary. Giroux would be a nice pick up depending on what we have to give to get him, we still have to remain realistic though, Philly won't just take any old thing to get rid of him, but I doubt it would cost a top forward to get it done. Which is precisely why we should be circling this situation closely, because we have no top forwards to give, but we do have an accommodating amount of cap space to help a team in need of some relief with an expensive player. *Enter Jaws Theme Here*

so does Bergevin leave the Defense.. Alzner - Weber Schelmko - Petry Streit/Davidson/Jerabek - Benn and go for a top center, or does he leave the top 6 forwards as.. Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Drouin Lehkonen - Danault - Gallagher and go for a top 3 or 4 LHD with the available cap, one of these scenarios will play out, which one as a fanbase are we most comfortable with? I for one am in the camp that this team needs a top line center more than anything, and has needed that more than anything for a long time, so I know where i'd like to see the move take place.

Doesn't change the fact Schlemko is good enough for this defense corps, he is an upgrade over various Dmen we had playing on the ice last season, and has the tools to take on a bit more than he was intended to now that Markov is gone. That is the point I am driving home, if this Defense stays the way it is that means Alzner plays an increased role and Schlemko being the next best LHD plays an increased role, is it Ideal? No of course not, Can he do it? He certainly seems to have the tools and plays the game in a very new age defense style based on mobility and puck moving. I'm simply playing out the scenario in my head where this defense remains the way it is, but we add top 6 center in the coming months with our available capspace. Ultimately we are going to have to choose whether offensive lines remain the same or this defense corps remains the same and spend the available cap on one aspect.

what is good enough then? if good enough isn't good enough for you?

He doesn't need to breakout he is already a good player who was good enough for SJ and will be good enough for us. I'm just saying because of our current dilemma he is likely to have to fill a bigger role than expected, and based on what i've seen he might just be able to pull it off.

getting Giroux while we have this much cap space and possibly get Philly to retain some would be a solid move, using a guy like Galchenyuk to do it would be flat out stupid and a blunder of epic proportion.

He is without a doubt not a Markov replacement, he is ideally the #5 guy, however if Alzner has to move up to the top pair Schlemko is likely the best suited LHD to play 20 min a night with Petry, and he does seem to have the tools to possibly pull it off. In the current situation I am just glad we went out and got him, and I am glad we got him for cheap, he looks poised to end up being a more important acquisition than originally anticipated, much like Benn was.

The question now becomes what move is more important to make at this time, shopping and spending the cap on a top 4 LHD with some offensive upside, or spending the cap on a move that gets us a Center who can play on our top line. In my opinion we will now only be able to fix one of these 2 issues before the season, however the cap is there to pretty much accept nearly any contract to fill one of the voids. I feel deep down that i would personally prefer to enter the season with the defense as is but with a top center added in, but I am not entirely set on if that is in fact the right way to go. I guess it all comes down to who end up available at each position.

Don't underestimate him, he played some solid hockey in SJ all year including the playoffs, he was also a strong possession driver, his stats last year would suggest he would be a fringe top 4 guy and a very solid 5th for us. He looks like he will be a very cost effective addition to this blue line.

Unfortunately my friend, the sky does little but bring annoyances such as Rain and Snow, Bergevin is going to have to work hard to make good use of his cap space, and he is going to have to work even harder to fix whatever is left of his image as a GM. The only reason to be so stingy with the cap this off-season is if you know you had a grand slam move that would require cap room to allow for it. At this point anything less than such a move would just seal the deal on this offseason as being a bust, you know me, and my history of posting here, i'm a guy who tries balance optimism and objectivity in every discussion. Bergevin has left himself no room to breathe unless he pulls off something rather brilliant with his 8+ million. Quite frankly right now I sorta feel like Darth Vader, Force Choking Bergevin, while he frantically tries to show me his plans to build the Death Star so I can release him.

Never thought I would see this thread made, for the reasons it is made today, truly a sad day

the blacklash he is getting today was completely avoidable, unless he has something in the works behind the scenes that signing Markov to a 6mill or more for 1 year would interfere with, there was no reason why a one year deal around 6 million was not signed. He has a couple months to reveal the "See this is what I was trying to do" move, otherwise this was a wasted off season where the team took no progressive steps forward, big or small, and may have only moved laterally at best, or got a a little worse than last season. At this point, right now, as we speak, the blame for that lies at his feet. He better hope he gets something big done with his 8.5 million, otherwise the executioner should be sharpening his axe, and Price should be looking at him like "So this is the great contender you promised me if I signed long term". sooner or later, even the most optimistic people need to look at him and admit they are getting tired of loyally following him down a path only he seems to be able to see..

Of course Not, but that is also a very specific situation which does not often occur, that was a chemistry choice, based on Sidney's history with Kunitz. Seguin was young at the time, had just had an incredible season, but they were in no hurry to bring him in due to a lack of experience. Now it is easy to see Seguin even then was a more talented player than Kunitz, but Kunitz had a "Role" to play, and lucky for him was part of a specific strategy to play with Crosby. Speaking as recently as 2016 though, at the world cup, Giroux played primarily in a limited role along side Matt Duchene and Joe Thornton on Canada's 4th line. Answer me this, would you trade Shea Weber straight up for any one of the players on that bottom line? If the answer is no, then you will see a recent example of how a top pair team Canada Dman is worth more than a 4th line Team Canada forward, in a vast majority of cases anyway.

Not saying it is, but if both players are on the team and both have varying roles does it not have a bearing on how good/valuable they are as players?

I disagree, National teams are the best of the best, in comparison to an NHL team, a Natonal team would be a decade long Dynasty in the NHL, you would be comparing the best with the best playing on the same team. They are still the same players, but how good they are is showcased by how high on these super teams they still rank, are you a top guy on an NHL team AND a top guy on Team Canada? Then you are a special player among the very best at your position no ifs ands or buts about it. If one player on the same team is a top Dman, logs the most minutes, plays all situations and is playing a major role for that team. While the other is a 4th line center on the team, plays a very limited role and is at times not even dressed, Would you trade these players 1 for 1? Of course you wouldn't, their role and value to that team is very different, why would you trade a top Dman for a bottom 6 Center? Do you think Team Canada would ever consider scratching Shea Weber and dressing Claude Giroux? Then why the heck would we trade Shea Weber straight up for Claude Giroux. On a side note, i'm not entirely opposed to trading for Giroux, for the right price and some salary retention, but it Cannot and Will not cost us Shea Weber. Unless we are actively trying to get worse in a major way, then just go for it.

Boy I can hear the pitch forks being sharpened from here.. I love how the Bergevin haters automatically assume this means HE is the designated replacement for Markov, he signed a 1 year 700k contract to come and play big minutes on the top pair and Quarterback the PP, what a failure of a signing, Bargain bin is sniffin the good stuff now....Get a god damn hold of yourselves, and stop breaking a sweat or even letting your temperature rise a degree over a freakin depth signing that means we have a veteran guy who can plug in some minutes on a 3rd pair and play some PP, and probably be in and out of the lineup like Boullion in his last hoorah. We still have 8 mill+ to fix some of the holes on this Roster, can we stop acting like a bunch of Tirading Toddlers in a Walmart about a move that has zero bearing on whether or not we can acquire some solid help to fill those holes?

it compares the 2 player's value to a team while they are playing on the same team, to put in perspective how much we lose Vs what we gained in straight up swap, did I really have to explain that?

"Dangling" a top pair Team Canada Dman for a fringe 4th line team Canada center, come on man you can't possibly think so little of Weber can you? that deal just plain and simply makes us worse and offers no cap relief or anything. Imagine this current D without Weber, Imagine this PP without Weber, imagine Petry forced to play 25+ min a night against the best of the best night in and night out. our movable assets lie on the wing, if the dance partner has different needs and the pieces don't fit, you have to move on and explore other options.

We have no use for Winnick, i'll just make that clear from my standpoint anyway. Duclair is on wobbly ground with his reputation much like Drouin was, perhaps now is the time to strike for a guy like him. Galchenyuk isn't going anywhere yet unless someone offers the moon for him, we should be leaving him to rebuild his stock again during this contract, and maybe in the near future after that value has been increased CONSIDER moving him for a dire need.

Of course I agree, I know currently this team is not in better shape than if it had Radulov and Sergachev. However that is a hypothetical situation, just like if we had hypothetically Traded for Drouin, re-signed Radulov, re-signed Markov, and signed Alzner. We would actually be much improved from last year, intention is hypothetical, what ifs are hypothetical, and when comparing one hypothetical situation to the other, the 2017-18 Roster would have been better with Drouin/Radulov/Markov than it would have been with Radulov/Sergachev/Markov. It fills more of our need, and Drouin would be much more impactful on the roster than a rookie Sergachev learning the ropes and being sheltered in a bottom pair role, if he even made the team. Now it remains to be seen what Drouin and whatever 9 million dollar worth of assets equates to, and if that equation remains an improved Roster over last year when taking into consideration the other improvements already made. Trust me if Bergevin does nothing, and for some dumb reason we enter the season with 9 million in cap space, I will be standing right beside you questioning what this management is smoking. I simply still have heavy doubts that it goes down that way, and until I get a clear picture of what way it does go down, it is premature to label this roster as anything but very likely incomplete.

What is your struggle with admitting that obviously what Bergevin was trying to achieve based on what he has done and who he has negotiated with, is going into the season with Drouin, Radulov, and Markov. A scenario that would have increased our offensive potency a fair amount, and that was identified by them and most of us as a pretty glaring reason for our early playoff exit. So yes the intention is worth noting, plans didn't work out, it doesn't mean Bergevin has locked himself in a closet and isn't doing anything else until October. But of course that narrative certainly fits the mold to paint him as completely incompetent across the board. To me, if he identified our lack of offense as a primary issue, and was aggressive in his pursuit for a top 6 forward to ADD to what he had in mind, which was bring back Radulov and Markov while also making a pitch for Alzner. That is not something commonly found in a completely incompetent GM, had he fulfilled his plan he would have upgraded the top 6 while solidifying our defense over the course of the offseason. It is easy to see what he was trying to do, discredit it for whatever reason you would like, but if he was active in getting this original plan going, i have a hard time believing now that it fell apart, he will sit on his hands and allow this team to enter the season with 9 million in cap space. He is waiting for the right opportunity, the right dance partners, and people obviously see he is currently in a position where he needs to make acquisitions, and that is also the time the sharks come into the water looking for blood. If he wants to take his time from now until October to navigate the waters as a hunter instead of the hunted, then so be it, I won't accept doing nothing, but I will accept a change of plan, and evaluate its effectiveness once I see what he does.

that would also work even better you are correct