Martin Luther King would be so proud

[Pierre the Great]

He's rolling in his grave.

Injustice.

And Saint Louis doesn't have any problems according to my friend.

wake up!

and this is a bright spot! what a sad joke, it would be so funny if it wasn't true.

http://www.builtstlouis.net/northside/mlk04.html

I've been down these streets countless of times, the neighbourhoods look like bombed out cities from WWII in Europe. Just imagined years of decay after that and no attempt to rebuild at all and you've got North Saint Louis.

North Saint Louis looks like heaven compared to East Saint Louis.

http://www.builtstlouis.net/eaststlouis/eaststl00.html

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

The heart of the area is the battered but still active shopping strip that runs along Martin Luther King Boulevard

hahahhaha

[Pierre the Great]

hahahhaha

Exactly. For North Saint Louis, MLK blvd is Park Avenue. Its the 'bright spot'

after city demolishes all the abandoned houses neighbourhoods look like this:

creepy.

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

Sounds like cheap ground, you can buy it and build a palace there. No neighbours, you can built up a nice neighbourhood to again!

[Pierre the Great]

eh, that's not the greatest ideas unless you had your own army and security. These neighbourhoods are what give Saint Louis the distinction of being the most dangerous city in North America.

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

but there is nothing!! TOtally nothing...

i heared a song about that lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieT_lf9wK28

[habs_in_the_blood]

but there is nothing!! TOtally nothing...

i heared a song about that lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieT_lf9wK28

lol

hey dutch...some time ago you posted a youtube video of a guy singing about life...like facts of life i guess...saying like "do this blah blah ....cause when your older blah blah" ...do you know what im talking about?!

if you do could you post the link please?!

(obviesly i dont know what he says so i inserted "blah blah's")

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

lol

hey dutch...some time ago you posted a youtube video of a guy singing about life...like facts of life i guess...saying like "do this blah blah ....cause when your older blah blah" ...do you know what im talking about?!

if you do could you post the link please?!

(obviesly i dont know what he says so i inserted "blah blah's")

Ah you mean Baz Luhrman and his Sunscreen song!! Great one!

[Bacchus]

Why does St-Louis even exist? Is it a historical site, or is there actually something that keeps it off life support (industry, research, farming etc.)?

[Pierre the Great]

Why does St-Louis even exist? Is it a historical site, or is there actually something that keeps it off life support (industry, research, farming etc.)?

Well they have this:

but in the event of a moderate earthquake that thing is going to fall, nothing but gravity is holding it up.

Then there is this:

and then this:

but mostly its own for this:

rap music

de facto segregation (blacks live in the north whites in the south) (and you wonder how I get my political views)

But its more known for this:

Yes this is a real picture, not some staged thing.

and this:

[Pierre the Great]

but the residents are blinded by the harsh reality of what is going on in this area. They are oblivious.

District 4 is downtown where the ball park is

District 1,2,3 are the 'white' areas. This has the italian hill, the french quarter, german town

5,6.7 is North Saint Louis.

9 is midtown with the Central West End, Union Station, Scottrade Center, Barnes Jewish Hospital, SLU, and forest park

In 5,6,7 districts you are in danger of getting gunned down by a sniper if you walk the street at night

In 1,2,3 people play cops and robbers in the back alleys. Its a normal to here gun fire during the middle of the day.

7 and 9 are some of the most home security, neighbourhood security places in the country. Its all gated (its where the mansions are (meet me in saint louie ring a bell?) A family though was gunned down pulling out of their garage one morning a couple years ago.

6 and 5 are some of the poorest areas in the country.

My friend who grew up in a catholic boys home. He doesn't know his father, his mom is a heroin addict has 12 kids. A drug dealer was looking for his mom when he was 5, his grandmother answered the door, she got her throat slashed and was shot to death right in front of my friend who was 5. I took him by his old neighbourhood, a few years back. Its in district 6. His childhood home was near old Vashon high school where there was always a shooting after the basketball games.

When I was in high school in north county. The guys on the football team would talk about who got shot the weekend before at the clubs.

A basketball star was assassinated or had a hit on him after some gang learned that he was being recruited out of district.

North Saint Louis is so bad, its getting better only because nothing is left of it. The real bad areas are the suburbs just north of it in jennings (where my high school is), Wellston, River View, Kinloch, Cool Valley.

My friends grandmother was shot and killed in cool valley just because she was getting gas at a gas station. They never found the killer.

A person at my church 95 year old grandmother was beaten to death by a guy wanting her purse.

These people are calling out for help and no one is on the other line wanting to pick up the phone.

Its only going to get worse if that's even possible. We had mass riots a couple years ago. North Saint Louis is lawless. People are trying to get out but they can't.

When you leave district 9 you go by the old Fox Theatre and SLU. You go oh what a nice cool area. You continue 10 more blocks down the street on Grand Ave. and you are thrown into another world of burned out buildings, abandoned buildings, and sheer poverty. For the life in you, you can't believe that you are in the same city let alone on the same street.

That's what life is like in Saint Louis, its a sad reality.

[Pierre the Great]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_and_soc...Louis,_Missouri

notice that the city lost half its population in 20 years. white flight after the civil rights act.

1950 856,796

1960 750,026- start of the white flight period

1970 622,236

1980 453,085- end of the white flight period

1990 396,685

2000 348,189

2005 352,572

750,026-453,085= 296,941 lost residents mainly from the south part of the city to the suburbs

Saint Louis County population

1960 population was 703,532 people

10 years later

1970 population was 951,671 people a 35.27%

Saint Charles County (county next to Saint Louis County)

population

1960 52,970

1970 92,954 75.48%

1980 144,107 55.03%

1990 212,907 47.74%

2000 283,883 33.34%

my guess from the growth of Wentzville which had 5,000 residents around 1990 and now has over 30k is that Saint Charles County will have 500,000 residents by 2010 at least.

[Bacchus]

One more reason I hate the American Political System. There is no way a country as affluent as that should have such neighbourhoods!

:puke:

[Dirty Harry]

Every country does, there are now neighbourhoods like that in Toronto, and areas of NDG in Montreal that you do not want to be walking in at night, or even during the day. How many police have been attacked in the Banlieu's of Paris this year?

The problem with cities like St Louis and Detroit is too much welfare and socialism. People get paid to sit around in a ghetto and everything is taken care of for them by the government, why would they have any motivation to leave. Over the last 30-40 years of this system everything has massively declined in places where it exists.

[Pierre the Great]

The problem with cities like St Louis and Detroit is too much welfare and socialism. People get paid to sit around in a ghetto and everything is taken care of for them by the government, why would they have any motivation to leave. Over the last 30-40 years of this system everything has massively declined in places where it exists.

The problems that plague North Saint Louis have nothing to do with 'socialism' or the welfare system.

It starts and ends at racism and segregation.

The population of the city before and after the civil rights era proves it.

lol

first you've got guns

and gangs

they recruit in the schools. Last year a bunch of 10 year olds sexually assaulted an 8 year old for example.

The gang leaders know that the little kids are expendable.

The problems with Saint louis are more of City of God in Rio with a mix of racism.

The city doesn't even try to have patrols in North Saint Louis for example.

You can't tell me that this:

ABOVE: 1900 Montgomery, circa 1909

1900 Montgomery, circa 2003

is due to 'socialism'

where in Montreal have neighbourhoods completely disappeared? Blocks after blocks torn down, left vacant.

[Dirty Harry]

The problems that plague North Saint Louis have nothing to do with 'socialism' or the welfare system.

It starts and ends at racism and segregation.

The population of the city before and after the civil rights era proves it.

lol

Unless there is legislatively enshrined racism and segregation you can't blame the plight of blacks on that. There are plenty of successful black people in the USA, so to say the nation has racist policies not to employ blacks doesn't fly. Why is it that SOME blacks are stuck in inner city ghettoes?

The population drop is a long term effect of poor governance. Like I said, Michagan has the same decline going. The main force of their economy (auto industry) is in trouble due to competitive problems and legacy problems (gave too much up to unions), what is the legislatures response? Raise taxes. Yeah that will help.

first you've got guns

and gangs

they recruit in the schools.

So what do you suggest doing about it?

[huzer]

There is urban decay in most, if not all, major metro areas. Even here in Denver, there are places like Commerce City and 5 Points that you aren't going to wander around in. LoDo, before the Colorado Rockies baseball team, was an absolute pit. Now it's a hip area to hang out in. I know St Louis has quite the rep, and I'm not saying Denver is as bad...but situations such as this exist all over the country.

[Pierre the Great]

Unless there is legislatively enshrined racism and segregation you can't blame the plight of blacks on that. There are plenty of successful black people in the USA, so to say the nation has racist policies not to employ blacks doesn't fly. Why is it that SOME blacks are stuck in inner city ghettoes?

The population drop is a long term effect of poor governance. Like I said, Michagan has the same decline going. The main force of their economy (auto industry) is in trouble due to competitive problems and legacy problems (gave too much up to unions), what is the legislatures response? Raise taxes. Yeah that will help.

So what do you suggest doing about it?

first call in the national guard because what they are doing in North Saint Louis now is not working.

Continue to tear down old homes that are used for drugs.

Go after the gangs

Install a curfew in certain districts

The residents who care about the city want these things inacted but they never will get there way.

You've got to go block by block, house by house.

The STLPD refuses to do this. Their little 'pet' projects don't work.

Then the bigger issue is the city schools. They aren't accredited anymore and have been taken over by the state. And kid who is trying to get out of poverty can't now because universities do not accept students from unaccredited schools.

Instead of having a surge in another stupid country we are in, we need a surge in north saint louis, and the residents would applaud the action too.

If you can't walk across the street because you are in danger to get killed by a person shooting at you, you have to come down on with an iron fist.

Problem is right now we have a white mayor and if he does anything people will go up in arms. (Think of a white man running south Africa, whites are the minority in the city.) For example the Chief of Police is white and people protested that as well.

But that's more or less a side issue.

The majority of the residents in North Saint Louis want this type of turning the place into a police state.

Before you can think of rebuilding a century of decay you've got to rid the place of the problems first.

Crime

Gangs

Guns

School

Safety

It will cost billions to change North Saint Louis, billions the state will never pay for because the state hates Saint Louis and Washington has never cared about the citizens of the country it runs. They like going on crusades in the middle east.

[shortcat1]

wow, ptg... praises to you for your dedication in issues...

what you could do in canada if you decide to move up here...

GO :hlogo: GO!

[Dirty Harry]

first call in the national guard because what they are doing in North Saint Louis now is not working.

Continue to tear down old homes that are used for drugs.

Go after the gangs

Install a curfew in certain districts

The residents who care about the city want these things inacted but they never will get there way.

You've got to go block by block, house by house.

The STLPD refuses to do this. Their little 'pet' projects don't work.

Then the bigger issue is the city schools. They aren't accredited anymore and have been taken over by the state. And kid who is trying to get out of poverty can't now because universities do not accept students from unaccredited schools.

Instead of having a surge in another stupid country we are in, we need a surge in north saint louis, and the residents would applaud the action too.

If you can't walk across the street because you are in danger to get killed by a person shooting at you, you have to come down on with an iron fist.

Problem is right now we have a white mayor and if he does anything people will go up in arms. (Think of a white man running south Africa, whites are the minority in the city.) For example the Chief of Police is white and people protested that as well.

But that's more or less a side issue.

The majority of the residents in North Saint Louis want this type of turning the place into a police state.

Before you can think of rebuilding a century of decay you've got to rid the place of the problems first.

Crime

Gangs

Guns

School

Safety

It will cost billions to change North Saint Louis, billions the state will never pay for because the state hates Saint Louis and Washington has never cared about the citizens of the country it runs. They like going on crusades in the middle east.

You could replace st louis with iraq in that post and it would be mostly accurate.

[shortcat1]

You could replace st louis with iraq in that post and it would be mostly accurate.

are ;you kidding?

GO :hlogo: GO!

[Pierre the Great]

wow, ptg... praises to you for your dedication in issues...

what you could do in canada if you decide to move up here...

GO :hlogo: GO!

I've got ton of ideas for Vancouver's downtown eastside.

Out of all the canadian cities I've studied Winnipeg looks to be the most similar to St. Louis in terms of problems etc.

The problem is containing the urban decay. Don't let it spread.

But you can fix homeless problems.

You can't necesarily fix what is going on in St. Louis.

Too many people in this world want quick fixes, silver bullets. North Saint Louis can't be fixed with a snap of the fingers. Its been neglected for over 50 years. You can't fix 50 years of neglect in a day.

Its like environmental politics. You can't automatically change over night. Its takes many years and commitments.

Before you want to rebuild the old north of the city you've got to fix the problems plaguing it first. Until you do that there is not much you can do. Habitat for Humanity can only do so much at the intersection of Grand and St. Louis. You need government support.

I've always believed in fixing our own problems here in America instead trotting off to war in a far away land preaching to people when we back home are a little hypocritical.

You know they always teach you in school to finish one thing before you go on to another. If we can't fix our own problems why do we preach to other nations to do things we don't do at home.

We were against South African Apartheid, yet we had segregation, separate but equal. Isn't that apartheid?

We promote democracy around the world, yet we installed South American dictators and assassinated and installed people we liked against the sovereignty of the country involved.

We care about Africa and Aids yet HIV infections continue to rise in this country

We were taught to hate the Berlin Wall as it was a force of oppression, yet we support the walls in Israel and on the southern border between Mexico and the US.

We criticize China for human rights abuses when we ourselves have secret prisons, gitmo, abu gahirab

I never have gotten this holier then thou attitude of my country.

Mother always told me to mind my own business when it came to other people's affairs because, you're just as guilty.

So why do we continue to criticize people abroad, countries abroad, when life in this country continues to be a struggle for more then 1/3 of this country.

We need to fix our own problems first before going off to preach to other countries on how to run a country.

[shortcat1]

I've got ton of ideas for Vancouver's downtown eastside.

Out of all the canadian cities I've studied Winnipeg looks to be the most similar to St. Louis in terms of problems etc.

The problem is containing the urban decay. Don't let it spread.

But you can fix homeless problems.

You can't necesarily fix what is going on in St. Louis.

Too many people in this world want quick fixes, silver bullets. North Saint Louis can't be fixed with a snap of the fingers. Its been neglected for over 50 years. You can't fix 50 years of neglect in a day.

Its like environmental politics. You can't automatically change over night. Its takes many years and commitments.

Before you want to rebuild the old north of the city you've got to fix the problems plaguing it first. Until you do that there is not much you can do. Habitat for Humanity can only do so much at the intersection of Grand and St. Louis. You need government support.

I've always believed in fixing our own problems here in America instead trotting off to war in a far away land preaching to people when we back home are a little hypocritical.

You know they always teach you in school to finish one thing before you go on to another. If we can't fix our own problems why do we preach to other nations to do things we don't do at home.

We were against South African Apartheid, yet we had segregation, separate but equal. Isn't that apartheid?

We promote democracy around the world, yet we installed South American dictators and assassinated and installed people we liked against the sovereignty of the country involved.

We care about Africa and Aids yet HIV infections continue to rise in this country

We were taught to hate the Berlin Wall as it was a force of oppression, yet we support the walls in Israel and on the southern border between Mexico and the US.

We criticize China for human rights abuses when we ourselves have secret prisons, gitmo, abu gahirab

I never have gotten this holier then thou attitude of my country.

Mother always told me to mind my own business when it came to other people's affairs because, you're just as guilty.

So why do we continue to criticize people abroad, countries abroad, when life in this country continues to be a struggle for more then 1/3 of this country.

We need to fix our own problems first before going off to preach to other countries on how to run a country.

you might also want to look at moving to regina saskatchewan...

there was a recent article in macleans (our national weekly mag) about the fact that a district in that city has the WORST living conditions & drug abuse level in the whole country... wow... (one wouldn't think so from a relatively small city in provincial birthplace of so many canadian political innovations (universal health care, etc...)

GO :hlogo: GO!

[Pierre the Great]

well it wouldn't surprise me that drugs would be high in Saskatchewan. I mean its just one giant farming community basically with mines in the north for uranium.

Regina also suffers from not being Saskatoon. The bigger more important city even though Regina is the capital.

They need to promote business to come, tech jobs etc. But its really hard with those brutal winters and Calgary just a days or so drive away.

[shortcat1]

well it wouldn't surprise me that drugs would be high in Saskatchewan. I mean its just one giant farming community basically with mines in the north for uranium.

Regina also suffers from not being Saskatoon. The bigger more important city even though Regina is the capital.

They need to promote business to come, tech jobs etc. But its really hard with those brutal winters and Calgary just a days or so drive away.

calgary's about a six hour drive away but that's splitting hair...

the winters might very well have an impact... my dad knows someone who's from winnipeg and she said that winnipeg is a great city 'to move from'...

GO :hlogo: GO!