100 Years!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Funny in 1989 I went to play baseball as well and listened to a walkman (a tape player with a radio for all those under 25 ). I kind of knew that it

wasn't going to happen that season. Calgary just had the mojo going, Gilmour, Macinnis, Vernon, Otto, Mullen were badly outplaying Richer, Corson, Courtnall,

Smith and Naslund. It did provide a great memory when Naslund knuckled one by Vernon with 40 seconds to go in Game 3 and Walter's OT winner though.

I was also spoiled in the 80s and thought nothing of missing a Stanley Cup Final game as the Habs made the Conference

Finals in 84 and 87 and made the Finals in 86 and 89.

I have ranted before about how underrated the 93 team was and how Roy's performance has been glorified and the rest of the team essentially disrespected.

People tend to forget that the Habs had 115 points in 1989 and had 90+ points in the next 3 years (No shootout points or OT loss points).

All around a great young core that either A. existed from the 86 Champs or B. players who were acquired from the 86 Champs.

Between 86 and 93 the Habs brought up Roy, Corson, Richer, Skrudland, Keane, Lemieux, Schneider, Desjardins, Brunet, Lumme, Leclair and Brisebois.

All these players were very young and would have formed the core of a powerhouse throughout the 1990s had they kept it together. That youthful core was

viewed differently in 1993 then they are now. Guys like Leclair were viewed as a 3rd and 4th liner. Desjardins and Schneider went on to very good careers with

other teams. Keane became an important member of the Avs and Stars Cup teams. etc etc. Claude Lemieux won a Conn Smythe and contributed to 3-4 more Cups.

Add in Chelios, Carbonneau and McPhee to the core and you see a great team with solid Goaltending, Great D and scoring punch.

I see the same thing happening right now with the Habs, and I am confident of another resurgence in the next 5-10 years.

I was SO disappointed in 1998. :puke:

This is a great post, partly because it punctures two myths: the first, being that the 1993 team was a garbage club rescued by Roy, which is total and absolute baloney. That myth arises from a long-since-disproven delusion of the era, which was basically that unless you had a superstar forward or two you couldn't possibly win. A holdover from the era of Gretzky/Lemieux. The Habs had a powerful all-around lineup with great leaders in their prime (Damphousse, Muller, Carbo) and a raft of young guns who rose to the occasion.

The second myth is that Serge Savard was a disaster at the draft table. This isn't true, and the perception exists only because of some high-profile first-round busts, and also because guys like Schneider and Leclair were dealt away. He can legitimately be assailed for that, but let's remember that he left us a team with Koivu, Damphousse, Turgeon - that's Pierre not Sylvain - and Mark Recchi, not to mention some guy called Roy.

[Wamsley01]

I was SO disappointed in 1998. :puke:

This is a great post, partly because it punctures two myths: the first, being that the 1993 team was a garbage club rescued by Roy, which is total and absolute baloney. That myth arises from a long-since-disproven delusion of the era, which was basically that unless you had a superstar forward or two you couldn't possibly win. A holdover from the era of Gretzky/Lemieux. The Habs had a powerful all-around lineup with great leaders in their prime (Damphousse, Muller, Carbo) and a raft of young guns who rose to the occasion.

The second myth is that Serge Savard was a disaster at the draft table. This isn't true, and the perception exists only because of some high-profile first-round busts, and also because guys like Schneider and Leclair were dealt away. He can legitimately be assailed for that, but let's remember that he left us a team with Koivu, Damphousse, Turgeon - that's Pierre not Sylvain - and Mark Recchi, not to mention some guy called Roy.

Serge also dropped one of the greatest Canadiens drafts of all time in 1984. His first 4 selections were Svoboda, Corson, Richer and Roy.

Two All-Stars and a Hall of Famer in his first 4 picks.

I remember I was disappointed in Savard's performance heading into 1995 and I lost it when he made the Leclair deal on the heels of Chelios for Savard 2 years earlier,

but if I knew what was coming in the Houle era I would have shut my mouth. In retrospect his 1993-1994 Draft's were pretty good as well with Koivu, Theo, Vokoun and Tucker.

It is amazing to think how quickly Houle dismantled that roster. Turgeon got us Corson who walked as a Free Agent, Roy returned nothing, Recchi returned Zubrus

and Damphousse nothing. sigh.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Wamsley01

[MAK]

Serge also dropped one of the greatest Canadiens drafts of all time in 1984. His first 4 selections were Svoboda, Corson, Richer and Roy.

Two All-Stars and a Hall of Famer in his first 4 picks.

I remember I was disappointed in Savard's performance heading into 1995 and I lost it when he made the Leclair deal on the heels of Chelios for Savard 2 years earlier,

but if I knew what was coming in the Houle era I would have shut my mouth. In retrospect his 1993-1994 Draft's were pretty good as well with Koivu, Theo, Vokoun and Tucker.

It is amazing to think how quickly Houle dismantled that roster. Turgeon got us Corson who walked as a Free Agent, Roy returned nothing, Recchi returned Zubrus

and Damphousse nothing. sigh.

I blame Corey more than houle or savard.

he's the one that asked for carbonneau to be traded, ditto chelios.

he's the one that fired savard and demers after only 5 freaking games and replace them with unexperienced muppets ( tremblay should have a second chance when lemaire leaves).

the only thing I will say against Savard is that he almost always failed the 1t round. (except for 84)

Man, I just don't want to go down the list, it's sickening...Matt higgins, brent bilodeau

his only two nhlers were koivu and stevenson...

the turgeon trade for corson was even worse than the roy trade.

Edited June 13, 2008 by marky_and_komi

[Wamsley01]

I blame Corey more than houle or savard.

he's the one that asked for carbonneau to be traded, ditto chelios.

he's the one that fired savard and demers after only 5 freaking games and replace them with unexperienced muppets ( tremblay should have a second chance when lemaire leaves).

the only thing I will say against Savard is that he almost always failed the 1t round. (except for 84)

Man, I just don't want to go down the list, it's sickening...Matt higgins, brent bilodeau

his only two nhlers were koivu and stevenson...

the turgeon trade for corson was even worse than the roy trade.

I don't see it. Turgeon didn't even average a point per game for the rest of his career and won

no personal awards and his teams achieved essentially nothing.

Roy won 2 Cups, a Conn Smythe and multiple All-Star teams. He was the final piece to that Avalanche puzzle.

Corson was more of a return than Rucinsky/Kovalenko and Thibault. Even though both deals essentially netted nothing.

The loss of Roy was also a blow to all Habs fans. He was the hero and the icon of the success of that generation.

As much as the Turgeon deal was a terrible deal, the Roy deal is one of the worst of ALL-TIME.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Wamsley01

[saskhab]

Thibault was a top prospect at the time that didn't pan out as expected (though he still had a moderately successful career before injuries killed it), so it's hard to begrudge getting that element back in the trade. But that's all that was... Rosy and Kovalenko were never considered as All-Star level talent.

[MAK]

I don't see it. Turgeon didn't even average a point per game for the rest of his career and won

no personal awards and his teams achieved essentially nothing.

Roy won 2 Cups, a Conn Smythe and multiple All-Star teams. He was the final piece to that Avalanche puzzle.

Corson was more of a return than Rucinsky/Kovalenko and Thibault. Even though both deals essentially netted nothing.

The loss of Roy was also a blow to all Habs fans. He was the hero and the icon of the success of that generation.

As much as the Turgeon deal was a terrible deal, the Roy deal is one of the worst of ALL-TIME.

houle gave them Conroy in the same trade. for an almost finished corson and a baron who cried all the way to montreal and until he left.

I think the Roy situation should've been dealt with more patience.

I'll give credit where credit his due. I totally love the malakhov trade to the devils.

[Wamsley01]

Thibault was a top prospect at the time that didn't pan out as expected (though he still had a moderately successful career before injuries killed it), so it's hard to begrudge getting that element back in the trade. But that's all that was... Rosy and Kovalenko were never considered as All-Star level talent.

Thibault was a top prospect, but so was Eric Fichaud, Trevor Kidd, Stephane Fiset and Jamie Storr at the time.

Thibault was far from a can't miss prospect.

Tell me a team that 2 years removed from a Stanley Cup with a core of Pierre Turgeon, Mark Recchi, Vince Damphousse, Saku Koivu,

Malakhov, Brisebois and Roy all under the age of 29 that would decide to roll the dice on a 20 year old kid in goal in return for their biggest star?

Throw in your 28 year old captain for some 3rd liners and we got a deal?

I know the Turgeon deal is bad, but it returned a 3 time All-Star and 2 time Captain in return who was 30 years old and in his prime.

I am sure as hell that the Devils would not trade Martin Brodeur and Jamie Langenbrunner for Tukka Rask, PJ Axellson and Peter Schaefer,

let alone make that deal when Brodeur was in his prime at the age of 29.

The Roy deal is one of the worst NHL trades of All-Time. It gutted the heart of Canadiens fans, it ripped out the heart of the team and history

shows that in one of the worst 10 year stretches in team history from 1995-2005.

There was no backup plan, there was no imminent ascsension of Theodore at the time. It was not a calculated gamble like the deal Gainey

made to free up Carey Price. It was a panic move by an inexperienced GM and the end result was what was to be expected.

Turgeon is an above averege NHLer, Corson is an average NHLer. I can live with that.

Roy is an All-time great, a Hall of Famer and the All-Time WIns leader. Thibault is a dime a dozen, as are Rucinsky and Kovalenko.

That, I cannot live with.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Wamsley01

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Thibault was a top prospect, but so was Eric Fichaud, Trevor Kidd, Stephane Fiset and Jamie Storr at the time.

Thibault was far from a can't miss prospect.

Tell me a team that 2 years removed from a Stanley Cup with a core of Pierre Turgeon, Mark Recchi, Vince Damphousse, Saku Koivu,

Malakhov, Brisebois and Roy all under the age of 29 that would decide to roll the dice on a 20 year old kid in goal in return for their biggest star?

Throw in your 28 year old captain for some 3rd liners and we got a deal?

I know the Turgeon deal is bad, but it returned a 3 time All-Star and 2 time Captain in return who was 30 years old and in his prime.

I am sure as hell that the Devils would not trade Martin Brodeur and Jamie Langenbrunner for Tukka Rask, PJ Axellson and Peter Schaefer,

let alone make that deal when Brodeur was in his prime at the age of 29.

The Roy deal is one of the worst NHL trades of All-Time. It gutted the heart of Canadiens fans, it ripped out the heart of the team and history

shows that in one of the worst 10 year stretches in team history from 1995-2005.

There was no backup plan, there was no imminent ascsension of Theodore at the time. It was not a calculated gamble like the deal Gainey

made to free up Carey Price. It was a panic move by an inexperienced GM and the end result was what was to be expected.

Turgeon is an above averege NHLer, Corson is an average NHLer. I can live with that.

Roy is an All-time great, a Hall of Famer and the All-Time WIns leader. Thibault is a dime a dozen, as are Rucinsky and Kovalenko.

That, I cannot live with.

We all agree the Roy deal was catastrophic. But I'd argue that trading a guy who got 96 points the previous season - the team's leading scorer - for Shane Corson is also pretty debatable. Then you add the fact that Reggie "threw in" Conroy (!). But what really drives me crazy was the stated rationale for it. Turgeon was being used by that blithering idiot Mario Blueberry as a 3rd-line centreman and naturally wanted out. The Habs replied that they couldn't possibly make room for Turgeon to centre one of the top lines - this despite the fact that Damphousse was a natural winger. I mean, it is to weep.

Shortly after that Koivu blew out his ACL and was never the same again. That left us with a natural winger as our #1 C. Our offensive depth was shattered. Well done, ya f**king idiots.

[saskhab]

My point on Thibault was that he was the one part of the trade we got back that had real value. The other two were throw-ins/stabs in the dark.

And Thibault turned out a lot better than all the other goalies you mentioned... but of course, we had 2 goalies in juniors at the time that turned out a lot better than Thibault did. It was an idiotic move for sure, and evidence that the team didn't actually shop Roy around, they just took the first offer that included Thibault they got.

[Wamsley01]

We all agree the Roy deal was catastrophic. But I'd argue that trading a guy who got 96 points the previous season - the team's leading scorer - for Shane Corson is also pretty debatable. Then you add the fact that Reggie "threw in" Conroy (!). But what really drives me crazy was the stated rationale for it. Turgeon was being used by that blithering idiot Mario Blueberry as a 3rd-line centreman and naturally wanted out. The Habs replied that they couldn't possibly make room for Turgeon to centre one of the top lines - this despite the fact that Damphousse was a natural winger. I mean, it is to weep.

Shortly after that Koivu blew out his ACL and was never the same again. That left us with a natural winger as our #1 C. Our offensive depth was shattered. Well done, ya f**king idiots.

The Habs made some brutal deals throughout the 1990s.

1990 - Chelios for Denis Savard

1990 - Claude Lemieux for Sylvain Turgeon

1994 - Carbonneau for Jim Montgomery

1995 - Leclair, Dionne and Desjardins for Mark Recchi and Mark Lamb

1996 - Roy and Keane for Thibault, Kovalenko and Rucinsky

1997 - Turgeon, Fitzpatrick and Conroy for Corson and Baron

1998 - Tucker, Richer and Wilkie for Poulin, Ulanov and Vukota

1999 - Recchi for Zubrus

1999 - Damphousse for essentially nothing in a salary dump

These deals ripped the organization to shreds and Houle's deals set the organization back 10 years.

In the end Savard turned Chelios, Lemieux and Carbonneau into nothing by 1995.

Houle then turned Roy, Desjardins, Leclair, Turgeon, Recchi and Damphousse into nothing by 2000.

I don't know if it is possible to do a worse job than Canadiens management did in the mid to late 1990s.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Wamsley01]

My point on Thibault was that he was the one part of the trade we got back that had real value. The other two were throw-ins/stabs in the dark.

And Thibault turned out a lot better than all the other goalies you mentioned... but of course, we had 2 goalies in juniors at the time that turned out a lot better than Thibault did. It was an idiotic move for sure, and evidence that the team didn't actually shop Roy around, they just took the first offer that included Thibault they got.

I think Thibault was a shot in the dark as well. I think Rejean Houle was overwhelmed in his job, like the worst guy in

your hockey pool and sold his star for 10 cents on the dollar and was talked into Thibault as the next great Quebec goalie,

when the next great Quebec goalie was already in New Jersey.

I used the other goalies as they had relatively the same value at the time and similar accomplishments and hype. Houle

would have been fool enough to include one of those goalies under the same rationalization.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think Thibault was a shot in the dark as well. I think Rejean Houle was overwhelmed in his job, like the worst guy in

your hockey pool and sold his star for 10 cents on the dollar and was talked into Thibault as the next great Quebec goalie,

when the next great Quebec goalie was already in New Jersey.

I used the other goalies as they had relatively the same value at the time and similar accomplishments and hype. Houle

would have been fool enough to include one of those goalies under the same rationalization.

Even Houle has admitted that he didn't know what he was doing, especially in the early days. So your analysis is basically right. Here he was confronted with a challenge of historic proportions - the necessity of dealing Roy - but lacked the tools to analyze players properly, let alone know how to negotiate with other GMs. Thibault had a rep in Quebecois media circles as the Next Big Thing. So Houle acted, probably without much more information than the media hype.

While he did do the occasional decent deal (Thibault for Hackett comes to mind, as does Malakhov for Souray; and didn't he get two first-rounders for Damphousse - ?), Houle remains without question one of the worst GMs in the history of the NHL. This is a guy who let Turner Stevenson go on waivers because he didn't want to lose - wait for it - Patrick Poulin. Incidentally, you forgot to mention the Valeri Bure-for-Zarley Zalapski deal in his list of follies. Then there's giving away Donald Brashear. Or how about Lyle Odelein for Stephane Richer? :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: The only rival in recent memory is the guy in Boston who pissed away Joe Thornton. Even John Ferguson Jr. was better - at least he can legitimately argue that he had nothing to work with in the first place. Houle systematically dismantled a very strong nucleus: wasting in the worst possible way imaginable almost every single major asset the team possessed. And the organization he assembled, e.g., scouting staff, was equally inept. No wonder it took several years for Andre Savard and Bob Gainey to right the ship. I'll never forgive him.

Edited June 13, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Mont Royale]

Houle remains without question one of the worst GMs in the history of the NHL.... The only rival in recent memory is the guy in Boston who pissed away Joe Thornton.

Somewhere Mike Milbury is mad as hell that you ignored him.

[Wamsley01]

Even Houle has admitted that he didn't know what he was doing, especially in the early days. So your analysis is basically right. Here he was confronted with a challenge of historic proportions - the necessity of dealing Roy - but lacked the tools to analyze players properly, let alone know how to negotiate with other GMs. Thibault had a rep in Quebecois media circles as the Next Big Thing. So Houle acted, probably without much more information than the media hype.

While he did do the occasional decent deal (Thibault for Hackett comes to mind, as does Malakhov for Souray; and didn't he get two first-rounders for Damphousse - ?), Houle remains without question one of the worst GMs in the history of the NHL. This is a guy who let Turner Stevenson go on waivers because he didn't want to lose - wait for it - Patrick Poulin. Incidentally, you forgot to mention the Valeri Bure-for-Zarley Zalapski deal in his list of follies. Then there's giving away Donald Brashear. Or how about Lyle Odelein for Stephane Richer? :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: The only rival in recent memory is the guy in Boston who pissed away Joe Thornton. Even John Ferguson Jr. was better - at least he can legitimately argue that he had nothing to work with in the first place. Houle systematically dismantled a very strong nucleus: wasting in the worst possible way imaginable almost every single major asset the team possessed. And the organization he assembled, e.g., scouting staff, was equally inept. No wonder it took several years for Andre Savard and Bob Gainey to right the ship. I'll never forgive him.

I went for the more memorable deals. The Odelein for Richer deal was puzzling for sure, as was giving away a kid like Bure for nothing.

Did he really get back two 1sts for Damphousse? If he did, he probably just wasted it on guys like Buturlin anyway.

Milbury is the worst GM of the last 30 years by far, Houle is number 2. JFJ is unfairly maligned, he inherited an aging team that really

accomplished nothing and his biggest flaw was continually dealing away picks and undeveloped youth for quick fixes. At the end of the day

he never dealt Sundin for 10 cents on the dollar. But alot of his downfall has to be laid at the feet of MLSE and their board.

It is hard to develop a farm system when your management demands playoff dates.

Milbury dealt away Bertuzzi and McCabe for Linden, decided that Jokinen, Luongo and Heatley were not as good as having Dipietro, Kvasha and

Mark Parrish and dealt Spezza and Chara for Yashin.

[Habsfan]

We all agree the Roy deal was catastrophic. But I'd argue that trading a guy who got 96 points the previous season - the team's leading scorer - for Shane Corson is also pretty debatable. Then you add the fact that Reggie "threw in" Conroy (!). But what really drives me crazy was the stated rationale for it. Turgeon was being used by that blithering idiot Mario Blueberry as a 3rd-line centreman and naturally wanted out. The Habs replied that they couldn't possibly make room for Turgeon to centre one of the top lines - this despite the fact that Damphousse was a natural winger. I mean, it is to weep.

Shortly after that Koivu blew out his ACL and was never the same again. That left us with a natural winger as our #1 C. Our offensive depth was shattered. Well done, ya f**king idiots.

I have to agree with the Cucumber on this. True that the Roy deal was the worst deal in the history of the NHL, the Turgeon deal wasn't much better. Turgeon was a 90+ point guy, and we got a Shayne Corson that was finished and a lousy Murray Baron. When that trade was announced, i was ######ing mad! I remember I had a baseball cap in my hands, and I chucked it at the T.V. The palet of the cap hit the screen and cracked the tv screen. Luckily for me the T.V was old and wasn't worth much, but i could've gotten into some real deep doggy do with my parents had it been a new TV!

Just imagine how koivu's career could have turned out had he not busted his knee back in 1996?!?! Had he not missed those 30+ games, he could have finished with 92 points! So unfortunate for saku!

Did he really get back two 1sts for Damphousse?

I found this on the Legends of Hockey website.

" Traded to San Jose by Montreal for Phoenix's 5th round choice (previously acquired, Montreal selected Marc-Andre Thinel) in 1999 Entry Draft, San Jose's 1st round choice (Marcel Hossa) in 2000 Entry Draft and San Jose's 2nd round choice (later traded to Columbus - Columbus selected Kiel McLeod) in 2001 Entry Draft,"

SO in the end he was traded for a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder!

Edited June 13, 2008 by Habsfan

[Wamsley01]

Anyways, to much negativity.

My memories are mostly great.

1980 - Sitting in front of the TV as a 7 year old praying for Denis Herron to play because they would win and not Laraque because they would lose

(and finding out 20 years later that Herron was 25-3-3 and Laraque was 17-13-8)

1981 -The debut of Rick Wamsley!!

1982 - The initial Battle of Quebec and a team that I could hate as much as the Leafs!

1983 - Getting to witness the swan song of Guy Lafleur. His last full season before his feud with Lemaire.

1984 - Steve Penney and his Dryden impersonation and my first taste of Canadiens success as well as the

great Good Friday brawl and 5 goal 3rd period to eliminate the Nords.

1985 - The emergence of Chris Chelios and the glint of a serious contender as well as the All time team and Joliat scoring on Plante.

Guy Lafleur night at the Forum

1986 - St. Patrick and the glorious run to the Stanley Cup!!

1987 - Another Conference Final run and The Battle of Quebec part 4!

1988 - 50 Goals by Stephane Richer and Lafleur's 2 goals in his Forum return for the Rangers

1989 - Another Stanley Cup run and a Vezina year for Patrick Roy and Norris for Chris Chelios as well as my first trip to the Forum

1990 - 50 Goals by Stephane Richer

1991 - Russ Courtnall and Shayne Corson with huge OT winners

1992 - Courtnall in OT Game 7 vs the Whalers

1993 - 10 OTs, Patrick Roy, 24th Stanley Cup!!

1994 - Kirk Muller in OT beats the Bruins but Roy's appendicitis contributes to a first round loss

1995 - Strike season. I pretended it did not happen

1996 - Damphousse on fire against the Rangers in the opening 2 games and Koivu showing a glimpse of what might be.

1997 - Koivu leading the league in scoring in November

1998 - Habs upsetting the Pens and temporarily giving me Stanley Cup hopes

1999 - 2001 - I pretend these years did not happen

2002 - Theo stealing one series and almost two before running out of gas. Also Theo winning the MVP

2003 - Sigh

2004 - Another first round playoff upset and the first 3-1 comeback in Canadiens history

2006 - Emerging young guns Plekanec, Higgins, Komisarek and stealing Huet from the Kings. Habs one of the hottest teams

down the stretch and pasting the Leafs back to back in Montreal to end their season.

2007 - More youth and Souray's monster season

2008 - Return to glory and the arrival of the saviour Jesus Price

[Wamsley01]

I have to agree with the Cucumber on this. True that the Roy deal was the worst deal in the history of the NHL, the Turgeon deal wasn't much better. Turgeon was a 90+ point guy, and we got a Shayne Corson that was finished and a lousy Murray Baron. When that trade was announced, i was ######ing mad! I remember I had a baseball cap in my hands, and I chucked it at the T.V. The palet of the cap hit the screen and cracked the tv screen. Luckily for me the T.V was old and wasn't worth much, but i could've gotten into some real deep doggy do with my parents had it been a new TV!

Just imagine how koivu's career could have turned out had he not busted his knee back in 1996?!?! Had he not missed those 30+ games, he could have finished with 92 points! So unfortunate for saku!

I found this on the Legends of Hockey website.

" Traded to San Jose by Montreal for Phoenix's 5th round choice (previously acquired, Montreal selected Marc-Andre Thinel) in 1999 Entry Draft, San Jose's 1st round choice (Marcel Hossa) in 2000 Entry Draft and San Jose's 2nd round choice (later traded to Columbus - Columbus selected Kiel McLeod) in 2001 Entry Draft,"

SO in the end he was traded for a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder!

Last thing I will say about this. It is not the player you traded that makes you regret a deal. It is the player he becomes.

Roy maintained his Hall of Fame career in Colorado. Pierre Turgeon never cracked 83 points and never saw an All-Star game again.

If Turgeon had a final 10 years like Leclair did I would rank it up there, but he didn't.

The Leclair/Desjardins trade is worse to me and the Habs landed an All-Star in return. Only problem is, they gave up 2 All-Stars to get 1.

Worst Habs trades for me:

1. Roy - Hall of Fame career and arguably best of all time for scraps

2. Chelios - Hall of Famer who would play 17 more years for an over the hill player who did not fit in the 90s NHL

3. Leclair/Desjardins - Two All-Star for one All-Star. Missing one All-Star in this transaction

4. C. Lemieux - Mr. Playoffs would have a great post Habs career

5. Recchi for Zubrus - Nothing like making the Lecalir deal hurt even more!

6. Damphousse for picks - Pure salary dump for picks that Houle pissed away

7. Turgeon - Leading scorer for declining Power forward

8. Carbonneau - Ridiculous dump. Short sighted arrgogant idiocy

9. Langway/Engblom/Jarvis - returned some solid players, but none close to the calibre of Langway

10. Ribiero - Was OK with the salary dump, but has grown up in Dallas

Edited June 13, 2008 by Wamsley01

[BTH]

Last thing I will say about this. It is not the player you traded that makes you regret a deal. It is the player he becomes.

Roy maintained his Hall of Fame career in Colorado. Pierre Turgeon never cracked 83 points and never saw an All-Star game again.

If Turgeon had a final 10 years like Leclair did I would rank it up there, but he didn't.

The Leclair/Desjardins trade is worse to me and the Habs landed an All-Star in return. Only problem is, they gave up 2 All-Stars to get 1.

Worst Habs trades for me:

1. Roy - Hall of Fame career and arguably best of all time for scraps

2. Chelios - Hall of Famer who would play 17 more years for an over the hill player who did not fit in the 90s NHL

3. Leclair/Desjardins - Two All-Star for one All-Star. Missing one All-Star in this transaction

4. C. Lemieux - Mr. Playoffs would have a great post Habs career

5. Recchi for Zubrus - Nothing like making the Lecalir deal hurt even more!

6. Damphousse for picks - Pure salary dump for picks that Houle pissed away

7. Turgeon - Leading scorer for declining Power forward

8. Carbonneau - Ridiculous dump. Short sighted arrgogant idiocy

9. Langway/Engblom/Jarvis - returned some solid players, but none close to the calibre of Langway

10. Ribiero - Was OK with the salary dump, but has grown up in Dallas

I don't think how well the player did afterwards should really decide how bad the trade was. It will make it more painful but it doesn't affect how smart or dumb the idea was. For example, Ribeiro - it wasn't a dumb move but he became one of Dallas' stars and it was robbery for them. Yet it's possible for a team to win a deal without the other team losing. And it's possible for both teams to lose as well.

I would say that Desjardins + Recchi for Leclair was the dumbest trade because it just made the least sense. You're trading a star and a high-pot powerforward (something the team sorely lacks) that's just starting to hit his stride for one All-Star. It should be obvious to anyone that can count that trading two good players for one good player is not a good move.

[Wamsley01]

I don't think how well the player did afterwards should really decide how bad the trade was. It will make it more painful but it doesn't affect how smart or dumb the idea was. For example, Ribeiro - it wasn't a dumb move but he became one of Dallas' stars and it was robbery for them. Yet it's possible for a team to win a deal without the other team losing. And it's possible for both teams to lose as well.

I would say that Desjardins + Recchi for Leclair was the dumbest trade because it just made the least sense. You're trading a star and a high-pot powerforward (something the team sorely lacks) that's just starting to hit his stride for one All-Star. It should be obvious to anyone that can count that trading two good players for one good player is not a good move.

Claude Lemieux was traded for other reasons outside of his hockey ability, they did not maximize their return.

As was Carbo, as was Roy, as was Ribiero, as was Langway. They failed to bring back tangible assets and they far outperformed

the player that was received in return.

The Ribeiro deal fits into a different category for me because of cap implications. Players will be traded

to free up salary and offer minimal return and could still turn out to be a strong move. ie. Brad Richards.

But all the deals I was looking at preceded the cap era and are judged differently from my point of view.

The fact that Houle traded Turgeon for a player 2 years away from being a UFA and then let him walk is

absurd and typical of his lack of vision throughout his tenure. If the Habs could not compete financially then

he should have gone the route that the Sens did and acquire guys who were emerging young players who

you could financially control for 8-10 years.

The guy was a boob, simple as that.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The guy was a boob, simple as that.

I could expound on this theme all day, but just a tidbit to underline Wamsley's point about Fooule's boobery. They brought up Ribs as a rookie in 1999 and there was a threshold of about 10 games before that counted as a "year" for free agency purposes. In other words, if they kept him for more than 10 games, he'd become a free agent one year sooner. Guess what. They kept him for 19 games of minimal ice time. Then sent him down. Which means that if Ribs had become a big star we'd have lost him or else had to pay him big dollars one year sooner than necessary.

It wasn't just the big boneheaded moves like Roy or Turgeon. It was little things like that...or letting Stevenson go on waivers so they could keep Patrick Poulin...or "throwing in" players like Keane or Conroy in trades in which he was already getting fleeced...or dumping Brashear or Tucker...lord, lord, lord.

[Psycing]

This is a truly sad tale. The generation born after about 1989 is the first generation in the history of the Stanley Cup to come to adulthood without childhood memories of a Montreal team winning Lord Stanley's Mug. There was a long dry spell for the Habs between 1931 and 1944, but at least the late lamented Montreal Maroons won one in the interim.

Mac, for you to say that your "glory days" involve Oleg Petrov...man, it makes me want to weep. :puke:

It's time to end this tragedy. BRING IT ALL BACK HOME, BOB!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, and the date can be made even earlier. I was born in 87, and that's the best I remember

[BTH]

I'm not denying that he sucked. The only move I defended was a Gainey move.

[Wamsley01]

I'm not denying that he sucked. The only move I defended was a Gainey move.

I am with you on that. Gainey = good