Michael Ryder for Team Canada?

[Dave from Vancouver]

Do I think Ryder should make the team? In a word, no. However, I bring this up because I find it perplexing that he has been virtually ignored by the big media players.

For instance, I was watching the Score and they had reps analyze each Canadian team and the chances of their respective players to make the squad. However, Montreal was completely ignored, not even mentioned! I understand analyzing Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, and Ottawa but if you're going to analyze Toronto (only McCabe comes close), I think the Habs deserve mention.

Conducting simple research, Ryder is tied for 5th among all Canadians in goals this season. He does this while playing in a market that demands perfection, and playing with linemates some consider subpar (consider how he looked with Kovalev). He has scored clutch goals and his future looks bright.

To reiterate, I can understand if Ryder doesn't make the team. But I can't understand why the networks feel he doesn't warrant mention.

- Dave

[KoZed]

I think its because Ryder isnt "proven" enough yet to attract the spotlight.

Its understandable when you look at what Ryder brings to a team. As much as I like him, he's somewhat one-dimensional. Aside from scoring goals, he's not making much plays, isnt exceptionnaly fast or reliable defensively. And most of his goals are scored on the PP. So right now, Ryder's a goal-scoring specialist. If you're going to only perform in one aspect of the game, you need to be extremely good at it. And in that category, Ryder is not in the elite of the league.

Not to say Ryder isnt deserving. If he was from any other country, he'd sure be a serious candidate for a spot on an Olympic team. But he's from Canada, where you could send 2 teams and both would end up with a medal.

[kaos]

I'd like to see what Ryder could do with a center that actually put forth a consistent effort, day in and day out. I think he'd be much more effective at even strength.

I think right now he's just destined to be a guy who scored 30 goals, but is forgotten about by the rest of the league. But as long as he's providing those 30 goals, I don't really care

[olematelot]

I'm predicting 40+ this season

[MAK]

I'd take marleau before ryder

[Ribeiro to Ryder]

Ryder is incredible but he is not there......... YET

[KoZed]

Ryder is incredible but he is not there......... YET

If he was that incredible, would'nt he have more impact on the fate of this struggling team?

Again, dont want to bash Ryder, but all he does is shoot pucks. He's not as much a one-trick pony as Zednik, but its the same category. If Ryder was bigger, a little slower and less accurate, he'd be Dagenais. The rest of his game is pretty average. You need guys like him to get secondary scoring, but I think its a far cry from "incredible"...

Edited December 30, 2005 by KoZed

[simonus]

ryder is a fine 2nd line center and I think he could be really good in that role with better company, but he is not team canada material unless he develops in a very unexpected way.

I am happy to have him on the team and am very curious to see what a player X - Plex - Ryder line could do.

[Ribeiro]

If Big "Cheapshot" Bert gets to represent the Canucks on Team Canada, then Ryder or Theodore should be allowed to represent Canada's most storied team.

How the hell do you have "Team Canada" without any Montreal Canadiens? And Theodore was robbed of a spot. Theo would be awesome with actual All-star defenders in front of him.

[JMMR]

ryder is a fine 2nd line center and I think he could be really good in that role with better company, but he is not team canada material unless he develops in a very unexpected way.

I am happy to have him on the team and am very curious to see what a player X - Plex - Ryder line could do.

Ryder does not play centre. But yes I would also love to see Plex with Ryder on a more consistent basis when he returns to the line-up.

[simonus]

Ryder does not play centre. But yes I would also love to see Plex with Ryder on a more consistent basis when he returns to the line-up.

yeah, that was a typo... note the fantasy line had ryder at wing...

If Big "Cheapshot" Bert gets to represent the Canucks on Team Canada, then Ryder or Theodore should be allowed to represent Canada's most storied team.

How the hell do you have "Team Canada" without any Montreal Canadiens? And Theodore was robbed of a spot. Theo would be awesome with actual All-star defenders in front of him.

I don't quite see the logic here. If a team-worthy player with a bad behavioral history gets on the team, why can't a less impressive player make the team? Or are you saying Bert isnt good enough and so Ryder and Theo should get in too?

You can have a team canada without any habs when you think it would be a better team. I might agree that Theo is as good a goalie as those who made the squad, and it's not like some of those goalies are not having less than stellar years, but its not a ridiculous decision for Gretzky to pick the goalies he did. As to Ryder, that would be a real long shot for a spot.

Theo has possibly demonstrated a scary tendency which I might call the Luongo effect, or perhaps the reverse Brodeur: he seems to do better 'saving' his team when battered by a ton of shots, but is far less impressive when seeing less shots.... not exactly what you want on team canada. Now, I hope/think this is not the case, but it wouldnt be a ridiculous observation to make.

[shortcat1]

The odds of ever seeing Ryder on a Team Canada roster are pretty small... unless he becomes a perennial super scorer.

His strenght is as a shooter. His defense is adequate for the better part so if he was to be chosen, it would be to fill the role of a sniper.

The problem with that is that the NHL is loaded with Canadian snipers. They're almost a dime a dozen. He would have to stand out way above the others in a Brett Hull kind of way. I don't think he will.

As far as the Canadiens are concerned, he's a VERY important part of team, especially when he's fulfilling his role so, regardless of whether he ever becomes a Team Canada player, we can always say that he's a crucial part of our Team Canadiens.

:hlogo: :king: :hlogo:

[Ribeiro]

I don't quite see the logic here. If a team-worthy player with a bad behavioral history gets on the team, why can't a less impressive player make the team? Or are you saying Bert isnt good enough and so Ryder and Theo should get in too?

I'm sorry I didn't make my post clearer. I attempted to edit it, but had some trouble with the new forum.

Basically, I'm saying that Bertuzzi making the team is riduclous when the chance could have been given to a young guy like Michael Ryder. Bertuzzi has a tarnished image, and he's going out there wearing a Maple Leaf. Team USA basketball would probably avoid inviting Ron Artest to wear the red/white/blue, for the same reasons that Team Canada should avoid asking Bertuzzi to wear the Red Leaf.

As for Bertuzzi's skills - he's highly overrated. He had a great couple of seasons, but that was strictly during the regular season. He disappears fast come playoff time or even during big rival games during the regular season (a problem with a lot of Canucks). Bertuzzi is a nut, and a choker. Not what you want on an Olympic team.

Michael Ryder is young, has great scoring ability, and has worked hard to take a key position on his team when he was picked 216th. A lot of people would have went, "screw it", give up on hockey and apply for a different job or go back to school. Instead, Ryder worked really hard to earn himself an NHL spot. He deserves a chance over Bertuzzi - that's what I'm basically trying to say.

You can have a team canada without any habs when you think it would be a better team.

Personally, I think it's a disgrace to not have any Canadiens on the team. Montreal is Canada's most storied franchise, and most of their playoffs shine come post-season (as opposed to say, the Canucks). You want players that can handle pressure. Most of the Habs players can.

I might agree that Theo is as good a goalie as those who made the squad, and it's not like some of those goalies are not having less than stellar years, but its not a ridiculous decision for Gretzky to pick the goalies he did.

It is ridiculous.

Theodore is a multiple time All-star, a Vezina winner, a Hart Trophy winner, and has consistently carried his team in the regular and post-season. Luongo and Turco have never done what Theodore has done. And Theodore has never had Stevens and Niedermayer like Brodeur has had.

[shortcat1]

I'm sorry I didn't make my post clearer. I attempted to edit it, but had some trouble with the new forum.

Basically, I'm saying that Bertuzzi making the team is riduclous when the chance could have been given to a young guy like Michael Ryder. Bertuzzi has a tarnished image, and he's going out there wearing a Maple Leaf. Team USA basketball would probably avoid inviting Ron Artest to wear the red/white/blue, for the same reasons that Team Canada should avoid asking Bertuzzi to wear the Red Leaf.

As for Bertuzzi's skills - he's highly overrated. He had a great couple of seasons, but that was strictly during the regular season. He disappears fast come playoff time or even during big rival games during the regular season (a problem with a lot of Canucks). Bertuzzi is a nut, and a choker. Not what you want on an Olympic team.

Michael Ryder is young, has great scoring ability, and has worked hard to take a key position on his team when he was picked 216th. A lot of people would have went, "screw it", give up on hockey and apply for a different job or go back to school. Instead, Ryder worked really hard to earn himself an NHL spot. He deserves a chance over Bertuzzi - that's what I'm basically trying to say.

Personally, I think it's a disgrace to not have any Canadiens on the team. Montreal is Canada's most storied franchise, and most of their playoffs shine come post-season (as opposed to say, the Canucks). You want players that can handle pressure. Most of the Habs players can.

It is ridiculous.

Theodore is a multiple time All-star, a Vezina winner, a Hart Trophy winner, and has consistently carried his team in the regular and post-season. Luongo and Turco have never done what Theodore has done. And Theodore has never had Stevens and Niedermayer like Brodeur has had.

right now, Théodore is one place ahead of Brodeur in the goalie stats but that's just on the basis of total wins. Brodeur has a better goals against average and save percentage.

what rankles me the most is that, again, Tomas Vokoun is near the top of the goalies stats. to think that he was once a montreal player... yuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk :puke: :puke:

[Fanpuck33]

How the hell do you have "Team Canada" without any Montreal Canadiens? And Theodore was robbed of a spot. Theo would be awesome with actual All-star defenders in front of him.

Perhaps it's because the Habs' best players are not Canadian. Kovalev, Koivu, and Markov are this team's most valuable players this year.

Theo has been having a very average year. And if you are going to use that argument for Theo, then you've got to use it for Luongo, who has never played for a winner. And if you are going to say Theodore is a better playoff performer than Turco, why is Turco's career playoff GAA better than Theo's?

I've got nothing against Theo, he is one of my favorite players. Heck, I just spent 10 bucks on his McFarlane figure (yeah, I found one in OHIO!). I simply think he was not deserving of making Team Canada.

[Ribeiro]

Perhaps it's because the Habs' best players are not Canadian. Kovalev, Koivu, and Markov are this team's most valuable players this year.

Ribeiro and Ryder are only 1 point short of Koivu. They've been a huge part of the Habs this year, and them making the playoffs last season.

Theo has been having a very average year.

By Theodore's MVP standards? Yes. But his average is still good. People claim he was "average" last year, but he still made All-star. Obviously his talent is under appreciated.

And if you are going to use that argument for Theo, then you've got to use it for Luongo, who has never played for a winner.

Luongo isn't near as proven as Theodore. Like I said previously, Theodore is a Hart and Vezina winner. Also, like I said previously, he's never carried his team to the playoffs, and then the 2nd round against higher seeded teams.

[Fanpuck33]

Ribeiro and Ryder are only 1 point short of Koivu. They've been a huge part of the Habs this year, and them making the playoffs last season.

Yeah, but Koivu has also played in 10 fewer games than those two guys. Same with Kovalev. Both of them are averaging more than a point per game, while Ribeiro and Ryder are well under a point per game.

By Theodore's MVP standards? Yes. But his average is still good. People claim he was "average" last year, but he still made All-star. Obviously his talent is under appreciated.

By ANY standards Theo is having an average year. 18 goalies with 20 or more games have a betten SV% than Theo. If any Canadian goalies have a gripe, it would be Fernandez and Roloson, who have put up great numbers their last two seasons. Simply put, thus far in the new NHL, Theo is very average. I hope for him to establish himself as the All-Star that he is, but so far, he's nowhere near All-Star form.

Luongo isn't near as proven as Theodore. Like I said previously, Theodore is a Hart and Vezina winner. Also, like I said previously, he's never carried his team to the playoffs, and then the 2nd round against higher seeded teams.

Year in and year out, Luongo stops more pucks than any other goalie in the NHL. It's pretty tough to lead a team to the playoffs when your team is as bad as Florida. Not even the great Patrick Roy could win on that team the last few year. Luongo's career SV% is better than Theo, and he gets shutouts more frequently than Theo. I don't care how good Theo is, but I think Luongo is better.

[JMMR]

If you actually believe Ryder and Ribero are anywhere near as good at Kovalev and Koivu you don’t know this team. Ribero and Ryder rarely if ever win games for these teams on their own I wish this were not true but it is. Theo has no place on the Canadian roster this year and I don’t think he would want to be there as a number 3 anyway.

Edited December 31, 2005 by JMMR

[Ribeiro]

Yeah, but Koivu has also played in 10 fewer games than those two guys. Same with Kovalev. Both of them are averaging more than a point per game, while Ribeiro and Ryder are well under a point per game.

You should look at this as a testament to Ribeiro and Ryder's endurance as opposed to using it to disparage them.

You should be praising them for playing 10 more games than Koivu and Kovalev.

By ANY standards Theo is having an average year. 18 goalies with 20 or more games have a betten SV% than Theo.

I can't believe there are Habs "fans" griping about Theodore's numbers when he has a 3rd period bonehead (Craig Rivet), a rookie and a youngster (Dandenault, Komisarek), and a 1-season fluke (Souray, who currently is at -3), as his Defensemen.

Bring up his save percentage when he has some D-men who actually defend him as opposed to letting players waltz up to the friken' net.

I can't believe some 'fans.'

[shortcat1]

interesting that the title of this string has to do with Michael Ryder but the talk/arguments are now about Théodore... but I digress... I wander in my thoughts.

[BTH]

You should look at this as a testament to Ribeiro and Ryder's endurance as opposed to using it to disparage them. You should be praising them for playing 10 more games than Koivu and Kovalev.

Say what? Koivu is injury-prone which is a minus but is it their fault that they got injured? They're in shape (compared to weak Ribeiro atleast) so that's not the cause. Maybe it's because the opposing thugs aim for the best players on the team. You have an awfully strange theory. Koivu has played 10 less games than Ribs and still has more points than him. Even if Koivu is less durable he has still contributed more than Ribeiro over the course of the season and that is shown in the points column. Atleast we can expect a consistent 100% performance from Koivu in the rare games he plays. Ribeiro might physically show up to every game but he doesn't play every game. Kovalev has played 15 games less than Ribeiro and Ryder yet has only 4 points less than them. He also stole many points for the Habs and is a true leader. R&R are having good seasons but don't even try comparing them to stars like K&K.

I can't believe there are Habs "fans" griping about Theodore's numbers when he has a 3rd period bonehead (Craig Rivet), a rookie and a youngster (Dandenault, Komisarek), and a 1-season fluke (Souray, who currently is at -3), as his Defensemen.

Rivet is a 3rd period bonehead? If you're talking about something from a recent game I must have missed it. If you're talking about the last Toronto game then that was a horrid call from the ref.

Dandenault is a youngster? Dandenault is a veteran with multiple Stanley Cup rings and he's also a motivated leader who shows it on the ice.

And you don't mention Markov, a bonafide #2 defenceman? You can say something bad about all the worst players of any team while pretending the good ones don't exist and make them look bad.

I do mostly agree with you on Theodore though. He's having a good year. No more than good but not average no matter the numbers. Had it not been for his slow start to the season (in which he was adjusting to the new rules) he'd have much better stats and no one would be complaining about his bad season.

[shortcat1]

Say what? Koivu is injury-prone which is a minus but is it their fault that they got injured? They're in shape (compared to weak Ribeiro atleast) so that's not the cause. Maybe it's because the opposing thugs aim for the best players on the team. You have an awfully strange theory. Koivu has played 10 less games than Ribs and still has more points than him. Even if Koivu is less durable he has still contributed more than Ribeiro over the course of the season and that is shown in the points column. Atleast we can expect a consistent 100% performance from Koivu in the rare games he plays. Ribeiro might physically show up to every game but he doesn't play every game. Kovalev has played 15 games less than Ribeiro and Ryder yet has only 4 points less than them. He also stole many points for the Habs and is a true leader. R&R are having good seasons but don't even try comparing them to stars like K&K.

Rivet is a 3rd period bonehead? If you're talking about something from a recent game I must have missed it. If you're talking about the last Toronto game then that was a horrid call from the ref.

Dandenault is a youngster? Dandenault is a veteran with multiple Stanley Cup rings and he's also a motivated leader who shows it on the ice.

And you don't mention Markov, a bonafide #2 defenceman? You can say something bad about all the worst players of any team while pretending the good ones don't exist and make them look bad.

I do mostly agree with you on Theodore though. He's having a good year. No more than good but not average no matter the numbers. Had it not been for his slow start to the season (in which he was adjusting to the new rules) he'd have much better stats and no one would be complaining about his bad season.

we musn't forget Souray who's beginning to come unto his own. he's had some adjusting to do too, nevermind the personal distractions.

[Strummerman]

Micheal Ryder has excellent speed and a great shot. Unfortunately playing with Ribeiro has hampered his production. I think he has 50 goal potential if he had a real center ice man. Let's just say if Forsberg was his center he might get 60 in the new NHL. He should have been chosen ahead of Bertuzzi Nash Draper Doan based on performance. However, so should Shanahan kariya Crosby etc been picked ahead of those

Edited January 1, 2006 by Strummerman

[Ribeiro]

He should have been chosen ahead of Bertuzzi Nash Draper Doan based on performance. However, so should Shanahan kariya Crosby etc been picked ahead of those

Exactly.

If Team Canada wants to go young(er), then go with hardworking scorers like Michael Ryder.

But, if they want experience and chemistry, then Shanahan and Kariya should have been chosen since they were from past Team Canada. Having someone like Bertuzzi out there who commits idiotic penalties and chokes in the playoffs is about as stupid as the Canucks resigning Dan Cloutier.

However, the real injustice here is Jose Theodore not making the team. I mean, I just can't get over this. It's absolute robbery.

[simonus]

You should look at this as a testament to Ribeiro and Ryder's endurance as opposed to using it to disparage them.

You should be praising them for playing 10 more games than Koivu and Kovalev.

are you serious? I should praise Ribeiro because he hasnt been injured? That's the standard?

Ribeiro is -10, Ryder is -7.

Koivu is +5, Kovalev is +2.

The K's score more and do it without giving up GA. A meaner man than myself might argue that it is easier to not get injured when you are scoring less and not contributing to the defensive end of the game.

I can't believe there are Habs "fans" griping about Theodore's numbers when he has a 3rd period bonehead (Craig Rivet), a rookie and a youngster (Dandenault, Komisarek), and a 1-season fluke (Souray, who currently is at -3), as his Defensemen.

Bring up his save percentage when he has some D-men who actually defend him as opposed to letting players waltz up to the friken' net.

I can't believe some 'fans.'

Way to disparage people for pointing out less than spectacular play.

Is Dandenault the youngster? He's 29 and some cups to his name... I thought he had accumulated some experience over his 10 seasons in the league.

It's kinda funny - based on your explanation of Theo's troubles you should be blasting Ribs and Ryder for having that huge +/- problem - evidence that they are the liability on the ice rather than Theo.... but I don't see them listed in your diatribe.

Is theo a bad goalie? Of course not. Has he been playing fantastically? At times, but he often seems to change between fantastic and regular mid-game. Should he be traded? I don't think so. I don't think we would get back an equivilant goalie, nor do we have one in our system ready to go. Are you no longer a fan if you think Theo ought to be traded? No.

I'm curious if you are able to argue without being reduced to just making personal attacks.

Edited January 3, 2006 by simonus