Sniper79 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 First of all, this is my first post as I am new to this forum, so try not to rip my opinions or you just might hurt my feelings. Regarding Montreal's defensive corps next season, I, like many other habs fans are looking for an upgrade from either the free agency market or via trade. However, I also believe that the habs, while not the strongest defensive unit in the league, do boast a fair amount of depth. Therefore, in order to upgrade at the position, at least one defenseman in our current lineup will have to be sacrificed. Currently, the habs have 7 defensemen who have played significant time with the big team this season: Markov, Souray, Komisarek, Rivet, Dandenault, Bouillon, and Streit. Additionally, there are fans who believe Cote could possibly be ready to make the jump (in my opinion, I don't think he'd be an upgrade on any of the previous 7 mentioned). Out of the 7 mentioned, at least one will have to be dropped or traded in order to make room for a free agent signing or trade in the offseason. Because Dandenault is signed to a long term deal, he will be harder to move in a trade. Therefore, the decision will likely come down to Bouillon or Streit. Given a choice between the two, who would you rather have on the team for next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
option+ Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 First of all, this is my first post as I am new to this forum, so try not to rip my opinions or you just might hurt my feelings. Regarding Montreal's defensive corps next season, I, like many other habs fans are looking for an upgrade from either the free agency market or via trade. However, I also believe that the habs, while not the strongest defensive unit in the league, do boast a fair amount of depth. Therefore, in order to upgrade at the position, at least one defenseman in our current lineup will have to be sacrificed. Currently, the habs have 7 defensemen who have played significant time with the big team this season: Markov, Souray, Komisarek, Rivet, Dandenault, Bouillon, and Streit. Additionally, there are fans who believe Cote could possibly be ready to make the jump (in my opinion, I don't think he'd be an upgrade on any of the previous 7 mentioned). Out of the 7 mentioned, at least one will have to be dropped or traded in order to make room for a free agent signing or trade in the offseason. Because Dandenault is signed to a long term deal, he will be harder to move in a trade. Therefore, the decision will likely come down to Bouillon or Streit. Given a choice between the two, who would you rather have on the team for next season? I'd like to see an upgrade to the D corps too, but I'm not going to complain if it doesn't happen. Once Komi and Souray sorted out their personal issues, it has been an extremely solid unit. I don't the D has gotten the respect they deserve. That's tough. Streit has been much, much better lately, and he gives the team a different look with his passing and PP ability. Bouillon though is much, much, much, MUCH better defensively. At this point I'm going to say Bouillon, but if Streit improves his play in his own zone, then I'd keep him instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 First of all, this is my first post as I am new to this forum, so try not to rip my opinions or you just might hurt my feelings. Regarding Montreal's defensive corps next season, I, like many other habs fans are looking for an upgrade from either the free agency market or via trade. However, I also believe that the habs, while not the strongest defensive unit in the league, do boast a fair amount of depth. Therefore, in order to upgrade at the position, at least one defenseman in our current lineup will have to be sacrificed. Currently, the habs have 7 defensemen who have played significant time with the big team this season: Markov, Souray, Komisarek, Rivet, Dandenault, Bouillon, and Streit. Additionally, there are fans who believe Cote could possibly be ready to make the jump (in my opinion, I don't think he'd be an upgrade on any of the previous 7 mentioned). Out of the 7 mentioned, at least one will have to be dropped or traded in order to make room for a free agent signing or trade in the offseason. Because Dandenault is signed to a long term deal, he will be harder to move in a trade. Therefore, the decision will likely come down to Bouillon or Streit. Given a choice between the two, who would you rather have on the team for next season? Hey don't worry about getting ripped, we all do it and you get used to it. As for who to keep, the choice would be easy. Bouillon over Streit. Not even close. Bouillon brings everything except for size, but he makes up for that with Heart. Streit brings nothing. As for Cote, after watching him over the weekend, and talking with seasons tickets holders in hamilton, it doesn't sound like would be ready to make the jump. He seems to have trouble doing something simply like skating backwards against an onrushing forward. You are correct, it seems he won't be an upgrade at all. Montreal definitley needs to bring in a top 3 defenseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) I think you will see Streit back next year. His play is getting better and better and he is our only defenceman with any real offensive creativity. I do like Bouliion and think if we trade him we wil get less than he is worth. I don't think Cote will be brought up. I wouldn't be surprised or upset if we start next year with the same 7 defencemen. Our need for an upgrade at forward is much more pressing. We don't score enough goals to be an elite team. Edited April 4, 2006 by Peter Puck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I think you will see Streit back next year. His play is getting better and better and he is our only defenceman with any real offensive creativity. I do like Bouliion and think if we trade him we wil get less than he is worth. I don't think Cote will be brought up. I wouldn't be surprised or upset if we start next year with the same 7 defencemen. Our need for an upgrade at forward is much more pressing. We don't score enough goals to be an elite team. I completely agree. Our defence seems to get a lot of complaints, but they've played quite well. Just because they have no big names doesn't mean they're not effective... the stats indicate they're very respectable. We need someone to put da puck in da net! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I think you will see Streit back next year. His play is getting better and better and he is our only defenceman with any real offensive creativity. I do like Bouliion and think if we trade him we wil get less than he is worth. I don't think Cote will be brought up. I wouldn't be surprised or upset if we start next year with the same 7 defencemen. Our need for an upgrade at forward is much more pressing. We don't score enough goals to be an elite team. So what your saying is that Markov doesn'thave any offensive creativity? Mmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Who you drop will really depend on who you get in exchange. If you get a player with strong offensive skills then you can afford to lose Streit - possibly? If you pick up a player who is a defensive oriented player then you can afford to drop Bouillon - possibly? Who comes and who goes are definitely intertwined. Currently Markov and Streit offer the most offensive upside amongst the defenseman. Despite some who have an obvious bias against Streit, the fact remains his game is much improved since Gainey has given him more playing time. Obviously Bob Gainey sees something that some either fail to see or just refuse to? And in the end that is all that matters. He's the manager so his opinion counts more than ours might. In the end I think you will see Streit back for the depth he offers offensively. Like Bouillon he will never be a top 3-4 defenseman. Both are expendable if a better alternative is provided, yet both can fill the depth chart according to certain needs. Because both bring quite distinctively different aspects of the game to the table, which one remains on the roster next year really depends on what the Habs add in the off season. In the end though I don't think it's just as easy as saying that Streit offers nothing. Gainey's read on players is far more trust worthy than the average fans - for my defense of that statement I offer the name Garth Murray! p.s. One player in the farm system who definitely piques my curiosity is Andre Benoit - I saw a lot of him here when he played with the Kitchener Rangers. While he isn't big, he definitely plays a big mans' game. Much like Bouillon does, and as a bonus he offers more offensive talent(at least it was evident here as a Junior.) He has the potential to surprize a lot of people. Only time will tell if he lives up to it though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lull Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 that's the exact question i asked myself while watching the game saturday night. Streit was making plays like none of the D on our team. sure we got great D, but Streit seemed to try to find offensive plays rather than stick to his position and shoot the puck. a few weeks ago i would've said Bouillon. i love the guy and feel he should be part of the team. but Streit has brouhgt his game up to his Olympic standards in the last couple of weeks. i'm very impressed. it looks as if he's gotten a handle on the new team and his confidence was brought up a few notches. very tough decision. maybe Souray (who's simply horrible when he's not on) could get sidelined somehow and give us some room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) that's the exact question i asked myself while watching the game saturday night.... very tough decision. maybe Souray (who's simply horrible when he's not on) could get sidelined somehow and give us some room Not a chance, unless the return on dealing him is exceptional. He struggled earlier adapting to the new game and had a lot of personal issues at the time as well, but has since returned to his true level of play. Trading him earlier would have been a mistake - doing it now would be even more so. He is a top four defenseman and they aren't available in great quantities...... p.s. welcome aboard Sniper79 = glad to hear from you! Hope to read more opinions from you? Edited April 4, 2006 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I would not be completely surprised if Streit decided to go get full-time minutes back in Europe rather than be a 6-7 in the NHL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I would not be completely surprised if Streit decided to go get full-time minutes back in Europe rather than be a 6-7 in the NHL... It's possible, but I think he's very motivated to play in the big league right now. He's reached the pinnacle of his game at home and it seems as if he wants to prove he can stayin the NHL. I wonder if that is probably what is driving him right now? However if he doesn't feel like it will get much better, or his role could be diminshed then I'd have to agree with you - maybe the situation will solve itself? So to speak..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 As of right now, I also believe Montreal's defence looks very good. Souray has really turned it on of late. Komisarek is playing with truck loads more confidence and looking like a first round draft pick. Markov, well he is just Markov and the team does have trouble winning when he is out. Rivet is a guy that would block a shot with hisw mouth if it would allow the Canadiens to win the game. This guy is a warrior in every sense of the word. Bouillon is a fast hard hitting little bugger, has really stepped up this year and played big minutes. Dandenault has been trying to create offence all year by carrying the puck up the ice, only recently has it started to result in goals. Streit looks better with each passing game, in fact he laud a few hits on Saturday night. If his confidence rises as Komisarek's did he has oodles of offensive potential along with being possibly one of the fastest Canadiens with the puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
option+ Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 About Dandeneault... I would also add that it took him a while to learn how to play without Niklas Lidstrom. You can take a few more liberties when #5 is covering your back. It took a while, but it looks like he's adapted to his surroundings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Dandenault has not been that bad recently and he is a perfectly fine guy to have anchoring the 3rd pairing. MTL is relatively good as far as GA (although you gotta thank Mr. CH for much of that) and I'm not too concerned about the D. Frankly, you need to generate like 30-40 more GF next yr. Now you can account for like 10-15 of those from increased production from current players (lets say +5-10 from Koivu-Kovalev tandem, + the rest from plek,higs,zhog), maybe more. You wanna get a +15-20 replacement via FA or trade. This improvement implies (as basically everybody has agreed) a top 6 winger and/or top 2 centre. The D will look a lot better when/if we can balance their performance against GF. Also, I wonder as to the positive relationship between GF and GA. IF the tricolore can get more GF in, it gives the O a better opportunity to backup the D when protecting those nice leads... or does it mean that we will allow more GA when the boys are concerned with scoring goals. I think that given the BG/GC philosophy, the former is more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 p.s. One player in the farm system who definitely piques my curiosity is Andre Benoit - I saw a lot of him here when he played with the Kitchener Rangers. While he isn't big, he definitely plays a big mans' game. Much like Bouillon does, and as a bonus he offers more offensive talent(at least it was evident here as a Junior.) He has the potential to surprize a lot of people. Only time will tell if he lives up to it though? I haven't seen him play much, but from what I've heard, Benoit has struggled quite a bit in Hamilton. He had a really great start, but the season progressed, things became more andmore difficult. I think the defenseman currently in the AHL that is most likely to play with the Habs is Archer, but if he ever does, it will be in a limited, Todd Simpson-like role. My feeling is that Benoit, Sanford, Coté, and probably even Archer are all career minor-leaguers. None of them has had much impact with the Bulldogs, the only ones were Hainsey and the Edmonton prospects. That's why I hope we bring in some of the other defensemen in our ranks, especially O'Byrne and Emelin, although I would love to also bring over Korpikari and Korneev even though the chances of that happening are very slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 As for who to keep, the choice would be easy. Bouillon over Streit. Not even close. Bouillon brings everything except for size, but he makes up for that with Heart. Streit brings nothing. Bouillon doesn't bring much to the table. Yes, he's very likable, and sometimes even inspiring. He's the Rudy Ruettiger of the Montreal Canadiens. He's a guy with very limited size and skills who tries to compensate what ghe lacks with amazing work ethics. Unfortunately, even at his very best he's nothing more than a bottom pairing defenseman. The one good thing about him is that even though he does nothing great, he does nothing terrible either. Ideally, I would love to keep Bouillon as the 7th defenseman, and if he's willing to accept such a role for around 750K so that we can insert a top 3-4 defenseman with some offensive upside on the roster, then great. We'll always have a very good backup in case of injuries, and we can sometimes play with 7 defensemen when the schedule is demanding... or just rotate a night off once in a while for the top 6 guys so that they are better rested. Bouillon would give us that flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I haven't seen him play much, but from what I've heard, Benoit has struggled quite a bit in Hamilton. He had a really great start, but the season progressed, things became more andmore difficult... I haven't seen or heard much about him either in Hamilton. I know he had a good start to the season but I haven't heard anything lately about his play. Based on his steady progression here in his Junior days it's possible that the same could happen in Hamilton. If he continued to progress the way he did with the Jr Rangers then it's a distinct possibility. He would be much like a Bouillon with a bit more offensive talent to add. He won't be a top 3 defender, but he could be solid #5-7 D somewhere in the new NHL? Developing solid #3-6 defenseman is for the most part a slow process. It takes time and patience...... Who really knows which of the current crop in Hamilton will blossom and which will eventually fade away? Judging them by their first year of minor-pro is definitely not a sound management strategy as defenseman take more time to develop. While I'm not suggesting he is going to make the NHL, however based on what I've seen in the past with Benoit, I think he has the tools and the potential to surprize a lot of people? Time will tell though...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Developing solid #3-6 defenseman is for the most part a slow process. It takes time and patience...... Who really knows which of the current crop in Hamilton will blossom and which will eventually fade away? Judging them by their first year of minor-pro is definitely not a sound management strategy as defenseman take more time to develop. None of them seem to have much upside for the NHL. Benoit is probably the one with the most overall upside, and Archer might have some as a reliable stay-at-home defenseman. As for the others, they all seem to have some serious limitations that would prevent them for being anything more than emergency backups in case we had tons of injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 None of them seem to have much upside for the NHL... For the most part that's true..... Then again I'm old enough to remember what was once said about Larry Robinson who also played here in Kitchener. Tthere were a lot of people who questioned that particular choice? Few if any saw what old Sam Pollock and his staff apparently did when they picked the Big Bird! Defenseman just need to be evaluated over a longer time frame - and the Habs have been the masters of that philosophy over the years. :hlogo: B) (p.s. I'm not even daring to suggest that Benoit is comparable!!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 So what your saying is that Markov doesn'thave any offensive creativity? Mmmm... Yes that's what I'm saying. How many times have you seen Markov jumping up and being involved in a 2 on 1 or seen him go in alone on a breakaway? I don't think either has happened this year. How many times have you seen him deke an oncoming forward and walk in from the point for a shot from the top of the circle? These things are not his style of play. I think Markov is an excellent defenceman among the top 5-10 in the league but he is not an offensive defensman. I would not be completely surprised if Streit decided to go get full-time minutes back in Europe rather than be a 6-7 in the NHL... Simonus, this post is not up to your usual quality. :?- Streit has been getting a lot more than 6-7 minutes per game and I dont see any reason to expect his time to fall off. In the 18 games since Jan 1 he has had 9 games with more than 18 minutes (including over 23 minutes once), 7 games with between 15 and 18 minutes, and 2 games (including the game we played the whole way with 7 defencemen) with between 10 and 11 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) Yes that's what I'm saying. How many times have you seen Markov jumping up and being involved in a 2 on 1 or seen him go in alone on a breakaway? I don't think either has happened this year. How many times have you seen him deke an oncoming forward and walk in from the point for a shot from the top of the circle? These things are not his style of play. I think Markov is an excellent defenceman among the top 5-10 in the league but he is not an offensive defensman. Keen observation..... if one watches Markov his offensive talents are not of the Orr/Coffey variety. Instead, his strengths are in the breakout support & passes that he provides, and the blueline puck control he demonstrates inside the oppositions end. He does provide offense, but it is of a somewhat less noticable sort. He is a master at taking the blueline away from the opposition at both ends of the ice. It is a simple philosophy that wins hockey games. When you control the blueline, especially your own, then you can contain the other team much easier. If you give them the last 5-10 ft and the first few inside it then you are usually in constant hot water! Markov is very strong on the bluelines and can spring the attack as a result - and this makes the backcheckers job so much easier. Edited April 4, 2006 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Lung Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Just spend our windfall from the Theodore trade and sign Zdeno Chara. It`s all about Chara... he makes everyone around him better... and is one scary player to play against in so many ways! Forget about Streit and Francis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 peter, I did not mean 6-7 minutes. I meant that Streit was a 6th or 7th d-man in mtl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper79 Posted April 4, 2006 Author Share Posted April 4, 2006 (edited) I also believe that Montreal's D is largely underrated, partly due to our lack of names, and partly due to our goaltenders overshadowing their work in the media (Theodore, Huet). However, given the maturation of Markov into a true #1 or #2 defenseman, we no longer have a pressing need to go after a Chara or Redden and spend a chunk of our salary cap on one of them. Rivet has also been solid all season long. Additionally, after their early struggles this season , Souray and Komisarek have improved enough to be top-4 defensemen. The reason I asked who would you pick between Streit and Bouillon is because I myself would have trouble deciding. I enjoy watching both play and feel they both have something to offer the team. Streit has recently grown confidence on the smaller ice surface and has been playing smart both offensively and defensively. His game on defense resembles Markov in that he often uses his stick to breakup plays rather then his body. His weaknesses still remain the same though, he is unable to take the body in front of the net and clear the traffic in front of the net. While I really like Bouillon, his physical presence is mostly felt on the boards when players try to skate around him. He also gets outmuscled in front of the net by bigger players. If I had to make a choice between the two I think I'd lean towards Streit in the end because he still has some untapped potential that we could use. Our lack of defensive puck movers makes him more likely to stay at the end of the season in my opinion. Of course this could all be a moot point, and Gainey could keep the same defense together for next season, which I would be satisfied with. oops, edited, meant underrated. Edited April 4, 2006 by Sniper79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 sniper, do you mean overrated or underrated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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