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(Nov 27) , Roster/Lines stuff..


puck7x
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I dunno , bored so I'll take a look at our current lines and roster , with injuries....

Zednik - Koivu - Ryder

Perreault - Ribeiro - Sundstrom

Bulis - Juneau - Dackell

Langdon - Begin - Dagenais

Markov - Brisebois

Souray - Quintal

Bouillon - Rivet

Theodore

Garon

Extra : Kilger , Komisarek

Injured : Ward , Audette

The only one of the forward lines listed that I like is the first , and they arent even consistantly good! The 2nd is useless with Sundstrom on it , he may have once belonged on a top-2 line in his career , but not anymore! ... 3rd line isnt doing the job defensively , not to mention that they are completely non-existant physically (bugs the hell out of me , even though I realize I shouldnt expect hits from those 3 players) ... 4th line shouldnt have a soft guy like Dagenais on it , thats a waste of a spot that could be taken by a grinder , or someone who can play a grinding style (Kilger) ...

For the defense , we've got to get Bouillon out of there! Sure he had a good last game (didnt ###### up , thats good for him) , he's not helping us offensively , he's not key to our defense... So whats the point of keeping him in there? especially over a guy like Komisarek (Bench Bouillon , switch Quintal to LD... Put Komisarek in) ... All Bouillon is good for is his ONCE a game hit , that looks EXACTLY the same everytime he makes one... Forward coming down right side (right for fwr) , gets to blueline or so... Bouillon strides over to left (D's left) , meets him at blueline and powerslams him to the ice... ... EVERYONE SAW IT COMING! (except the forward I guess)...

So , whats everyone else think?

BTW , waiting patiently for Gainey to make a move... He's talked about us needing to have bigger forwards , so is he going to make it happen?

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About Sundstrom, seeing him there on the 2nd line doesn't make much more sense than when Dackell got the same opportunity not too long ago.

That said Dackell had been playing better than most, and he proved his coach right by scoring that night.

Now last game Dagenais started on the 2nd line but was quickly demoted.. because Sundstrom was having a strong game. Sundstrom was hot that night, Julien recognized it and gave him some 2nd line time.

And made things happen on that line.

Later he also scored, just like Dackell... but while playing with the 4th line.

I have no problem with Julien rewarding someone who had a good game, and hoping he might have a repeat performance.

As we've seen, the roster rarely ends as it had started... if Sundstrom is off again he won't stay there long.

[Edited on 28-11-03 by Habs77]

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I thinkl that Sundström COULD be the ideal sollution on the second line.

All he has to do is to make it work with Perreault.

Perreault is a sniper. And defensive unreliable. Ribeiro is good a deliver passing but I don't know if he will ever run for the Selke Trophy.

Sundström is a skilled hockeyplayer. A role player. If Sundström could figure out how to play with Perreault and Ribs we would have a good line there.

But maybe he just doesn't like to play in Montreal? I hope that Sunström get things going. If he could play as good as I know he can he would have a spot on the second line 82 games per season.

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Agreed with almost all said here, as always it will take lots of guts to go with something like an all youth lineup. I would be the first to applaud an effort to get rid of all the older and useless guys and build for the future, not just say it but actually build.

Bigger forwards has been talked about forever, it would be wrong to sacrifice many prospects for a bigger lineup and not many of the older guys can get a decent and big forward in a trade. I am afraid Gainey is stuck in the same situation as his predecessors on that one.

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puck7x, your post is too emotional but I like when people say what they really feel :clap: and it makes people to reply on you message.

First off all I want to say that I'm huge fan of Bouillon. And that's not because he is very talented

D-man, he has something that most of our players lack-heart! He can stand up for his teammate any moment. Sometimes even Langdon hesitate to start fighting when it’s needed. And most surprising thing that I notice about Frankie is his speed. Man, is he the fastest d-man in our roster? May be not, but surely one of them. I don’t like the idea putting him in PP, however if I had a choice between him and Rivet my choice would be

Bouillon.

Sandstrom is very good player believe it or not. But our coach use him improperly. How can Sand play in the 4th line with checking line players like Langdon or Begin? The guy can’t simply hit. He looks really out of place when his partners start hitting. However, he is one of our best penalty killers and is really good skater. Give him a chance with offensive line.Sharks wasted his talent and we have started doing it. He is still able to put good numbers.

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Originally posted by Richard

Sandstrom is very good player believe it or not. But our coach use him improperly. How can Sand play in the 4th line with checking line players like Langdon or Begin? The guy can’t simply hit. He looks really out of place when his partners start hitting. However, he is one of our best penalty killers and is really good skater. Give him a chance with offensive line.Sharks wasted his talent and we have started doing it. He is still able to put good numbers.

Since you appreciate people saying what they think, you'll love this ;)

Despite supporting Julien's choice to start Sundstrom on the 2nd line for ONE game... I completely disagree with him being 1st or 2nd line material on this team.

This team lacks top end skill & size/toughness on it's top lines. You have to at least one of these to be on those lines IMO.

Koivu, Zednik, Perreault, Ribeiro all have superior offensive skill... for this team anyway. So despite their lack of size, they belong.

Ryder brings the toughness factor.

Sundstrom is not a top end offensive talent, he can do ok but that's not good enough... and he brings no toughness. Hence he has no business being on the top lines IMO, his only good offensive year came from playing with Gretzky... anyone of us would have a good year playing with Wayne.

We're presently so short on top line player material that we've tried the likes of Audette, Hossa, Bulis, Kilger, Dackell, Dagenais, Juneau... so in that context why not try Sundstrom.

I agree he's a terrible fit on a 4th line, that's obvious.

The best situation for him would be to play with 2 physical forwards WITH SKILL... but on this team that's just about what every small/soft player needs.

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I didn’t mean to say that Niklas is top offensive talent and he has to play at 1st or 2 line. All I wanted to say that he could be very useful when you put him with players like Perreault, Ribeiro. Both have problems playing defensive game and having Niklas along side they would be more effective and Niklas would have the opportunity to his game and to earn some points. To play with The Greatest one is a an honor for every player. And now tell me why did Niklas deserve it? :)

Moreover, if Julien wants to continue to play trap, the defensive-minded Niklas will be more useful than Perreault and Ribeiro whose offensive production is not perfect either. Don’t get me wrong I don’t say that Niklas is a better hockey player than those two. I’m trying to show that we underrate his abilities a bit. Everything written no more than (IMO)

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It will be interesting to see how will Mike Komisarek will perform, as he will be paired with Sheldon Souray. I have always thought these two guys would form a great duo. According to CKAC, here's the official line up for tonight's game:

Micheal Ryder - Saku Koivu - Richard Zednik

Yanic Perreault - Mike Ribeiro - Niklas Sundstrom

Jan Bulis - Joe Juneau - Andreas Dackell

Darren Langdon - Steve Begin - Pierre Dagenais

Andreï Markov - Patrice Brisebois

Sheldon Souray - Mike Komisarek

Francis Bouillon - Craig Rivet

Mathieu Garon

Jose Thedore

I can't say I'm really enthusiastic with Perreault playing on the 2nd line. While I do agree Bulis has done a fine job playing with his good old linemates (Juneau and Dackell), I think this guy deserves to be rewarded for his consistant play. Jan has shown offensive sparks in many games, but seems like he just can't finish the plays. Maybe playing with third liners is the reason why he just can't seem to buy goals. Perhaps playing with more offensive-minded linemates would help him taking advantage of his scoring chances. What do we have to lose anyways? We're not able to buy goals right now.

[Edited on 2003/11/28 by Higgsfan]

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Originally posted by Richard

puck7x, your post is too emotional but I like when people say what they really feel :clap: and it makes people to reply on you message.

First off all I want to say that I'm huge fan of Bouillon. And that's not because he is very talented

D-man, he has something that most of our players lack-heart! He can stand up for his teammate any moment. Sometimes even Langdon hesitate to start fighting when it’s needed. And most surprising thing that I notice about Frankie is his speed. Man, is he the fastest d-man in our roster? May be not, but surely one of them. I don’t like the idea putting him in PP, however if I had a choice between him and Rivet my choice would be

Bouillon.

Ahhh another Bouillon fan , people love rooting for the underdog I guess...

About him defending his teammates , yeah its nice... But hundreds of players in the NHL do the same thing , just so happens that Bouillon is one of the only ones who does it on the habs , does that mean we should keep him in the lineup? No! It means we should find a more skilled player who ALSO defends his teammates to replace him (Komisarek...)

And btw : Bouillon only looks fast because he's so small... He uses more strides :) , nah I'm kidding... he is pretty fast.

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Originally posted by Habs77
Originally posted by Richard

This team lacks top end skill & size/toughness on it's top lines. You have to at least one of these to be on those lines IMO.

Yup. Enter Jason Ward. While many posters seem determined to relegate Ward to the 4th line, I think he's being grossly underutilized in that role. I would love to see what Ward would do on RW with Ribiero and Perrault. Good size, energy, toughness, decent hands and vision, good and TOUGH along the boards. I think he'd compliment Ribs and Perrault beautifully. He'd be my choice for RW on this line, at least until he showed he didn't fit. Frankly, I think he would add some real grit and back bone to this line.:-^

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Very much have to agree with you, Fisher King.

We don't have a second line right winger, until Ward gets back.

When Gainey speaks of wanting to evaluate the team before making any move, I think he's speaking in reference to Mr. Ward. Gainey is smart enough to realize that Ward has played well at every level. He owns everything Bob looks for in a player. We constantly see these reports from media outlets such as RDS, where Gainey is courting a talented body with size. Hello? Do they forget that we have the AHL's MVP on the injured list? Who gives a flying Richer whether or not he can skate, or that Anson Carter and Mark Parrish may be available, look at Ward and tell me he doesn't want to play.

Let's forget about his horrid skating style, his label as a underachiever, or the fact that he's 23-years-old. You can't deny his talent. I love Ryder as much as the rest of you, but if he, who came from the depths of the ECHL, is given such a golden oppurtunity, than goddammit I can't wait to see Wardo doing the exact same thing.

We know he can provide energy, penalty killing abilities, and some toughness, but that's only because noone has given him a chance, yet.

There's nothing Ward does that will negatively affect our team. He's only a positive.

--------------------------------------------------

When Ward, Hossa, and Hainsey return to Montreal, here's what I'd like to see Julien throw out.

20 Zednik - 11 Koivu - 73 Ryder

38 Bulis - 71 Ribeiro - 17 Ward

81 Hossa - 90 Juneau - 24 Dackell

25 Kilger - 22 Begin - 15 Langdon

I like Sundstrom alot, but it seems he's just not the right fit for the Habs. I think we'll see him let go in the same way Czerkawski was, only to see him flourish in another organization.

79 Markov - 43 Brisebois

44 Souray - 08 Komisarek

65 Hainsey - 52 Rivet

Quintal is my seventh defenceman. At $450,000 he's a bargain, but his skills just aren't that of a regular anymore. Bouillon can hustle all he wants out there, but the best players play.

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Originally posted by jl.roberts

When Ward, Hossa, and Hainsey return to Montreal, here's what I'd like to see Julien throw out.

38 Bulis - 71 Ribeiro - 17 Ward

Ummm, well, we agree on Ward anyway.

Dunno about removing the much maligned Perrault from this line in favour of Bulis. Perrault and Ribiero seem to have something going, although for the life of me I don't pretend to understand how or why, but it seems to be working. Although admittedly Bulis is a much more "complete" player than Perrault, Perrault is a far superior sniper (arguably the only true natural goal scorer on the Habs), and you want a sniper playing with someone with Ribs playmaking abilities. As my Dad always used to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Like I said, I have no idea how or why it works between Ribs and Perrault; logically, it shouldn't. If I were the coach, I would never have even CONSIDERED putting these two on the ice at the same time, but I never argue with success. Guess that's why Julien is coaching and I'm writing ill-informed commentaries.

I think as long as it keeps working, we should leave Perrault where he is. Put Ward on the other wing for size, toughness, work along the boards, as well as his vastly under-rated finishing and playmaking skills, and I think we have a winner.:/)

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I'll third the motion for Ward on the 2nd line.

The reason he didn't get it before was because AUDETTE was healthy and Zednik automatically got the other RW spot.

But since Ward has been out a lot has changed... Zednik has moved to LW, but Ryder is there now so that doesn't help Ward any.

Then you have Audette out, and since then Dackell, Sundstrom and Dagenais have taken turns playing with Perreault & Ribeiro.

The key will be for Ward to get back into the lineup, and get his timing back BEFORE Audette gets back. He has to get that shot on the 2nd line RW before Donald gets back and then force them to keep him there with his performances.

Its really too bad Ward got hurt, if he didn't he would have had more time to impress the coach... and Dagenais would not have gotten his chance and become one more hurdle in Jason's way.

It's all about timing, and taking advantage of your opportunities.

Ward is both more physcial and has a better scoring touch than Kilger... his only drawback is speed, but if that was a deal breaker Perreault & Ribeiro wouldnt be there either.

Plus Gainey said he liked the kid, and I personally loved the way he blossomed into a leader last year in Hamilton while a guy like Hossa just disappeared.

Ward apparently is about to start skating and expects to be ready in about a week or two. Audette on the other hand was injured the game before the classic(nov20), and was supposed ot miss 3-4 weeks.

That means he'd due back between dec 15-22... let's hope his return is delayed until after the holidays. I mean c'mon, let the man spend the holiays with family ;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

As for a lineup I'd be looking for after some house cleaning is done:

Zednik-Koivu-Ryder

Bulis-Ribeiro-Ward

Hossa-Juneau-Dackell

Langdon-Begin-Kilger

Markov-Breezer

Souray-Komisarek

Bouillon-Quintal

Perreault, Sundstrom, Rivet can be dealt... even Hossa (if they're not going to use him at center)... and hopefully somewhere in there we can land a good forward with size.

P.S. If they are going to finally use Hossa at center next year... I'd go with Bulis-Hossa-Kilger/Ward for the 3rd line next year.

Bulis & Hossa are very good defensively, have good size and speed, and have offensive skill to boot. When we're matching up against the top lines, I'd much rather see these guys get heavy minutes than the likes of Juneau & Dackell.

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Agreed - if Hossa can't play centre, trade him.

Here's my idea lineup next season. This coutns on Dagenais scoring 10+ goals (20 preferably, but can't get greedy), Audette/Perreault/Juneau/Dackell/Sundstrom/Rivet/Quintal getting traded/released

Zednik-Koivu-Ryder

Higgins-Ribeiro-Dagenais

Kilger-Hossa-Ward

Langdon-Gratton-Begin

Markov-Komisarek

Souray-Brisebois

Beauchemin-Hainsey

Theodore

Garon

Sure, i'm expecting big things from Dagenais and Higgins. Hell, a 20 goal season from Dagenais, a good jump to the NHL from Higgins and solid 2-way play from Gratton would be a godsend (IMO). Maybe even Hainsey can pick up the play. Or we can keep Bouillion on there.

But we can't live on hopes. And surely those players could afford to aquire a RW of decent physical and scoring potential.

Ah, BG, why do you tempt us so much?

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