Lafleur Criticizes Samsonov & Kovalev

[smon]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=182324&hubname=nhl

In his weekly column in Le Journal de Montreal, likely written before Saturday night's game, Lafleur, who never minces his words, blasted both players for putting themselves ahead of the team.

And he urged head coach Guy Carbonneau to assert his authority, even scratch them from the lineup for some games if he must, to prevent dissension from spreading on the team.

"Me, myself and I, that's Kovalev's motto," Lafleur wrote. "He punishes everybody because he's not playing up to his expectations."

Lafleur added: "I say without exaggeration that Samsonov and Kovalev are very talented, but they are very, very, very capricious."

And he concluded with: "If they're not happy, they should be scratched for some games. It should be avoided at all cost that one or two players takes control of the team."

"The only person who should be in charge on the ice is Guy Carbonneau. Kovalev's behaviour risks creating dissension in the ranks. Some players will defend him, others will keep quiet while blaming him on the inside, but the team will end up divided and weakened. Carbonneau absolutely must deal with this firmly."

"On a hockey team, there's nothing as useless as a prima donna who creates more problems than nice plays."

Whoa, take it the Flower is no big fan. Keep in mind this was written before Saturday's game - but still, some not so kind words from him.

[Aebischer4life]

Lafleur hates euros, its as simple as that.

I respect the fact that Guy is very honest, but I do not agree with him one bit.

[CoRvInA]

I dont see any anti euro remarks.... unless this has happened before WHICH I DOUBT!

I am a Fan favorite of Kovalev as I'm sure many ex Glorieux are.... I didnt read Lafleur saying Gainey should trade him! IMO Lafleur is wishing that threatning tactics of Samsonov dont repeat themselves... I hope this is the last episode!

Both players should realize that they have to respect the team's unity first... And that things that are said off and on the ice and also on and off camera might create havoc...

But I'm happy that the comments from Kovalev regarding Samsonov after the leafs game were fair and measured... Who knows maybe Carbo might have tricked Kovalev into the Centre position... imagine if Carbo had tried muting Kovalev first into the Centre position before playing around with Sammy... I think Kovalev might of had a fit.. "stating it wasnt his problem, just Sammy wasnt producing.

Now Kovy is happy to stick to this new Job ... we'll find out vs OTT if Carbo was playing around and got what he wanted or there's a new episode in this show!

[Aebischer4life]

I dont see any anti euro remarks.... unless this has happened before WHICH I DOUBT!

I am a Fan favorite of Kovalev as I'm sure many ex Glorieux are.... I didnt read Lafleur saying Gainey should trade him! IMO Lafleur is wishing that threatning tactics of Samsonov dont repeat themselves... I hope this is the last episode!

Both players should realize that they have to respect the team's unity first... And that things that are said off and on the ice and also on and off camera might create havoc...

But I'm happy that the comments from Kovalev regarding Samsonov after the leafs game were fair and measured... Who knows maybe Carbo might have tricked Kovalev into the Centre position... imagine if Carbo had tried muting Kovalev first into the Centre position before playing around with Sammy... I think Kovalev might of had a fit.. "stating it wasnt his problem, just Sammy wasnt producing.

Now Kovy is happy to stick to this new Job ... we'll find out vs OTT if Carbo was playing around and got what he wanted or there's a new episode in this show!

Yes he has. Last year I remember Guy saying something to the effect that Europeans are soft and floaters and that you dont win a stanley cup with them on your team. Something along those lines.

[CoRvInA]

hmmm...well, its a trend and it could be pointed out that way... I personally dont agree it should be termed that way...

Nevertheless the point Lafleur makes and what I drive upon is whatever Primadonna (regardless of origin) attitude should not be tolerated in the Habs team!

and that I completely agree

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

As far as I know, Samsonov never complained in all his years on a badly run, melting-down Bruins club. So while this is fair comment on Kovalev - who I like - it seems like a cheapshot against Sammy, who, after all, was NOT treated terribly fairly in this whole situation. (Not to say that he shouldn't have kept his mouth shut, but one incident should not be enough to condemn the man).

[huzer]

I respect what Lafleur has done for the team in the past, but it seems he's quoted when he's colorfully blasting the team, and ya hear nothing when the Habs are playing well. I take his words with a grain of salt. For the good of the team, the Habs shouldn't be benching, or making an example of, two of our highly skilled veteran players. I think they're old enough that that form of motivation is more detrimental than positive.

[Shu]

I agree with Guy on one point; that kovalev is an "me myself and I" type of guy. You rarly see him back cheking, he doesnt give much effort sometimes, (sometimes he does). Also another point he said that they were capricious, i totally agree, you can never really know if Kovalev will have a good game. In Lafluers qoutes you cant really tell yet about sammy, its to early. in the playoffs last year with edmonton he was great, all over the ice, as Kovy said its a new team who he must get accustomed to. 1 line must share the same brain

[jordi]

As far as I know, Samsonov never complained in all his years on a badly run, melting-down Bruins club. So while this is fair comment on Kovalev - who I like - it seems like a cheapshot against Sammy, who, after all, was NOT treated terribly fairly in this whole situation. (Not to say that he shouldn't have kept his mouth shut, but one incident should not be enough to condemn the man).

Agreed, I'm pretty surprised when he's suddenly painted as an arrogant self righteous bastard. People have been claiming about how he's a bad negative energy in the team etc. However he's been completely tactful and careful in his words. He's been a great guy in Boston and while Bruins fans don't really want him in the team, they can easily say that he's never been a pushy guy. He's become an easy target just because he's new to the team and people who don't like him get to voice about how much of a liability he's become after a couple of games.

I sincerely think the concept of Kovalev punishing people is a bit too extreme. He doesn't get himself thrown out every game.

I think openly showing the internal problems of the Habs organisation has become quite problematic. Many teams have problems with players not producing as expected however it seems that showing this vulnerability has made it tabloid fodder more than anything.

[PB]

As far as I know, Samsonov never complained in all his years on a badly run, melting-down Bruins club. So while this is fair comment on Kovalev - who I like - it seems like a cheapshot against Sammy, who, after all, was NOT treated terribly fairly in this whole situation. (Not to say that he shouldn't have kept his mouth shut, but one incident should not be enough to condemn the man).

Very well said.

Having Samsonov shifted two lines down after only 7 games during a practice right on the eve of his return to Boston,.....was unfair and needlessly provoquative.

I felt Samsonov's reaction was reveilling of Carbo's poor decision ( let's not forget that Samsonov is not a whinner and has always been perceived by the Boston press as a player with an ethic on par with his talent )

and when Carbo had Samsonov starting the Boston game on the third line as opposed of the fourth,.....it was clear that Carbo had made a mistake during practice on the previous days.

As Koivu said patience is needed when a player start in a new town with a new team.....specially I would add

when the player is working hard at it and has an history of always doing so.

Samsonov reaction was in proportion to Carbo's akward coaching decision in that moment........both where a

little off but neither should be juged without the just appraisal of the larger context.....which Lafleur seems to be unfaily doing in this article......anyway talking of Kovy and Samsonov as a pair seems stupid to me.

[beliveau1]

Lafleur was weaned on coaches who ran a tough ship - it was an era when you respected the coach and your teammates. There was a price to pay for selfishness and stupidity from both teammates and management.

By todays standards it seems antiquated and unfair, but it was the way things were done.

Today both the young fans and the young players find that approach a foreign concept - in short unacceptable.

Lafleur never said in this article that it was anti-Euro, and just because some say he may have said that in the past doesn't mean this statement automatically is.

This was plain and simple, a condemnation of two players attitudes and the fact that such behaviour has to be nipped in the bud - Samsonov should not have gone to the press & his agent was out of line, and Kovalev does not seem to live up to the wealth of talent he possesses on a regular basis. He seems to pout & sulk far more often than he produces - nothing new for him unfortunately. When he does show up there isn't any one out there much better at skating or niftier at moving the puck!

Lafleur spoke out on an issue that he felt could rip the Habs apart if left to fester - he defended the coach and so be it..... if you need any introduction to how hard coaches were prior to tne 'me' generation just read a few older hockey books that will open your eyes - especially guys like Eddie Shore & Scotty Bowman.

Shore once tied a goalies suspenders to the cross bar because he kept going down to early.......

Ever hear the stories about Bowman - 4th liner, superstar or career minor leaguer = didn't make a difference to him?

tough Sh#@*!%t if they didn't like being centred out for being asses - you happen to play for the greatest hockey organization in the world....... like the organization that exhudes class, they should have some too!

Edited October 31, 2006 by beliveau1

[jordi]

Samsonov should not have gone to the press & his agent was out of line.

I find this problematic, nothing proves that he explicitly went to the press to tell them that he wasn't happy. A lot of reporters generally work on post game morsels and press sound bytes along with what they can get from sources. Because the press decided to use his words into a huge story, his agent probably felt it was suitable to stand behind Samsonov - thus creating a misunderstanding where Samsonov doesn't want to leave but he feels insecure.

No biggie, it should just be packed away and forgotten because nothing really ended up happening in the end.

[geolink]

Lafleur and players from across the Atlantic dont Mix.

[KoZed]

Yes he has. Last year I remember Guy saying something to the effect that Europeans are soft and floaters and that you dont win a stanley cup with them on your team. Something along those lines.

Back it up with an accurate quote, or don't bother at all.

In the context of this limited column, Lafleur said nothing that concerned the two guys being Euros. He pointed out two guys who have produced below expectations, one that whined in the medias about playing on the 4th line in training and the other putting his team in a hole with a selfish hissy fit.

That's the bottom line, and I 100% agree with Lafleur... however its not realistic to scratch both of them. Today's NHL with its too many teams and high salaries makes it impossible for coaches to punish players by scratching them. Players know that if they pout, they'll always find another place elsewhere.

The one way to punish them is with special units time... because that's where they get their stats; and stats dictates contracts.

[KoZed]

Lafleur was weaned on coaches who ran a tough ship - it was an era when you respected the coach and your teammates. There was a price to pay for selfishness and stupidity from both teammates and management.

By todays standards it seems antiquated and unfair, but it was the way things were done.

Today both the young fans and the young players find that approach a foreign concept - in short unacceptable.

The Bowman-era Habs epitomized the team-first mentality. You played for your teammates, not for your stats or next contract, regardless of your talent. And that mentality was an endless chain, a franchise culture that could be followed all the way back to the 50's. It was passed down veterans to rookies for decades.

Lafleur's keeping that spirit alive when he points out those types of behaviors... because Carbo can't do it, Gainey can't do it, nobody in the organization can do it; and if it comes from medias its not taken seriously. But if it comes from an ex-Habs -- a superstar in his own era -- then it has more meaning.

Gainey played in the same team as Lafleur, he was breed on the same motto: team first. I'm sure he secretly likes to hear old truths being told.

[PB]

The Bowman-era Habs epitomized the team-first mentality. You played for your teammates, not for your stats or next contract, regardless of your talent. And that mentality was an endless chain, a franchise culture that could be followed all the way back to the 50's. It was passed down veterans to rookies for decades.

Lafleur's keeping that spirit alive when he points out those types of behaviors... because Carbo can't do it, Gainey can't do it, nobody in the organization can do it; and if it comes from medias its not taken seriously. But if it comes from an ex-Habs -- a superstar in his own era -- then it has more meaning.

Gainey played in the same team as Lafleur, he was breed on the same motto: team first. I'm sure he secretly likes to hear old truths being told.

Werent the players slaves to their organisation in the 50's, all of them desperate to fitt-in whatever the ovbious abuses they where subjected to by them ?

Wherent the slaves of the Red Army playing some of the best hockey any team could ever aspire to play in the early 70's ?

Things has evolved (was not Lafleur unhappy and rebelling against his coach Lemaire

late in his carrer ?)......and as kept evolving ever since.

The reality is much more complex today yet a good team spirit is still required today for any teams to performe strongly ( BUFF and CAR where good exemples last season ) but coaches required a different set of talents to succeed nowadays then needed in time past.........they still depend on having a descent bunch of well intentionned players from the start......and according to Souray Carbo has them........so now let's watch

how a smooth operator Carbo can be.

[justintb]

Well, Im going out to bat here for Kovalev and Samsonov. They may be Russian, but if it werent for their play on Saturday, the Habs wouldnt have even recorded a point (I was at the game Live). The only reason why the Habs got a point out of the Make Me Laughs is because of those two....Never thought Id say this but a hockey great could never be so wrong. But then again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[shortcat1]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=182324&hubname=nhl

In his weekly column in Le Journal de Montreal, likely written before Saturday night's game, Lafleur, who never minces his words, blasted both players for putting themselves ahead of the team.

And he urged head coach Guy Carbonneau to assert his authority, even scratch them from the lineup for some games if he must, to prevent dissension from spreading on the team.

"Me, myself and I, that's Kovalev's motto," Lafleur wrote. "He punishes everybody because he's not playing up to his expectations."

Lafleur added: "I say without exaggeration that Samsonov and Kovalev are very talented, but they are very, very, very capricious."

And he concluded with: "If they're not happy, they should be scratched for some games. It should be avoided at all cost that one or two players takes control of the team."

"The only person who should be in charge on the ice is Guy Carbonneau. Kovalev's behaviour risks creating dissension in the ranks. Some players will defend him, others will keep quiet while blaming him on the inside, but the team will end up divided and weakened. Carbonneau absolutely must deal with this firmly."

"On a hockey team, there's nothing as useless as a prima donna who creates more problems than nice plays."

Whoa, take it the Flower is no big fan. Keep in mind this was written before Saturday's game - but still, some not so kind words from him.

I know that this is somewhat flippant but all I can say is: "So?"

Go :hlogo: Go!

[Doktor Kosmos]

I think this whole thing has been blown so far out of proportion...

[Aebischer4life]

Back it up with an accurate quote, or don't bother at all.

In the context of this limited column, Lafleur said nothing that concerned the two guys being Euros. He pointed out two guys who have produced below expectations, one that whined in the medias about playing on the 4th line in training and the other putting his team in a hole with a selfish hissy fit.

That's the bottom line, and I 100% agree with Lafleur... however its not realistic to scratch both of them. Today's NHL with its too many teams and high salaries makes it impossible for coaches to punish players by scratching them. Players know that if they pout, they'll always find another place elsewhere.

The one way to punish them is with special units time... because that's where they get their stats; and stats dictates contracts.

Sorry I dont have a freakin quote its not lke I'm in love with Lafleurs racist remarks. I rememeber him saying it like it was yesterday. 100% sure.

[huzer]

Back it up with an accurate quote, or don't bother at all.

The only thing I remember being said last year, or whenever it was (and it isn't attributable to Lafleur, although he may have made mention to it, I'm unsure) was that no team with a European captain has won the cup. That is verifiable.

[redondo]

I don't see this as a big deal. He's just giving his opinion, with which I by the way don't agree.

Agree 100% that Lafleur's remarks come from being bred in a different era. But that's the problem, these times are not these, and tough-love approach with a veteran like Kovalev would be risky at best.

Plus he's not really helping Carbo's situation by saying he should do one thing or another. All it does is open the door for second-guessing the coach and his decisions. And while I can see this kind of opinion coming from media (because they need to stir shit up from time to time to get some material), it's a different thing coming from an ex-great.

Is Lafleur still involved in hockey, btw? Anyone know?

[shortcat1]

I don't see this as a big deal. He's just giving his opinion, with which I by the way don't agree.

Agree 100% that Lafleur's remarks come from being bred in a different era. But that's the problem, these times are not these, and tough-love approach with a veteran like Kovalev would be risky at best.

Plus he's not really helping Carbo's situation by saying he should do one thing or another. All it does is open the door for second-guessing the coach and his decisions. And while I can see this kind of opinion coming from media (because they need to stir shit up from time to time to get some material), it's a different thing coming from an ex-great.

Is Lafleur still involved in hockey, btw? Anyone know?

So far as I know he plays old-timers games.

Go :hlogo: Go!

[CoRvInA]

After the Habs Ott game the commentators (on another post game show) from RDS... were wondering if Lafleur's comments had in fact touched base on Kovalev and co...

I think it was also brilliant how carbo gave kudos to Kovi on a job well done specially on his defensive attitute and work... that sealed Kovalev into a work ethic and responsability that he wont be able to get out of that easily anymore! perfect strategy by the habs.... I actually think this was all conceived not to make Sammy play better (cause it was too early wasnt it?) but to make Kovalev set up a cruise control at a higher tempo than previously done! I think it was brilliant!

enough said on the Flower... Lafleur is and always will be helping the Habs!!!... not individual players but the TEAM the GLORIEUX ... and of course his pals Gainey and Carbo hehehe

[CerebusClone]

Maybe I'm wrong - I'm just a little too young to have followed Lafleur during his best years with the Habs - but didn't he threatened the team back in his years to not play (basically go on strike) if he didn't get something like half a million, which was a heck of a lot of money back then? If so, so much for the "team first" mentality.

Lafleur was a great player, one of the best in NHL history, but listening to his quotes over the years, and especially during the lockout, I get the feeling he's a big hypocrite and certainly not any "better" than today's athletes.