Lawyer wants Team Quebec at the Worlds

[riker]

http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/news_sto...93&hubname=

[MAK]

riker, remember that guy's name...he's a moron. he's always looking for contraversy. he's a real clown.

as for a quebec team, I think it's a joke.

[jetsniper]

I'm fine with it.

As long as I get to see a Team Alberta.

[riker]

riker, remember that guy's name...he's a moron. he's always looking for contraversy. he's a real clown.

as for a quebec team, I think it's a joke.

Its funny how that lawyer loves to stir the pot... I know that Marty Brodeur has always said that he loves Team Canada and the thought of the Team Quebec wouldn't be a great idea.

I'm fine with it.

As long as I get to see a Team Alberta.

So should we show up with 10 provinces and two territories to play in the Worlds instead of one country?

[habsfan88]

It would be stupid. Quebec is part of Canada, and having their own team playing against Canada would make everyone else is Canada dislike the french, and be more for them segregating.

Canada is one, so they should play as one.

[Pierre the Great]

Go team Missouri!

Quebec is in Canada

As I've said before if they want a "Quebec team" make a "Canada Cup" where each province and territory has its own team make a tournament out of it and so on.

[option+]

Guy Bertrand is a clown. the guy ran for the PQ leadership in 1980s, decided he was a federalist in the 1990s, then decided he was a separatist again six years later. He is a joke as a lawyer; remarks he made during a trial (where he was defending a Rwandan war criminal) may end up getting him disbarred. He has little credibility.

He's just playing politics, anyway. If Quebec really wants a team in the 2008 World Championships, then they're barking up the wrong tree. Charest can't do anything - Bertrand may want to start lobbying people in the IIHF. Of course, that would require Bertrand to do something other than just run his mouth...

Edited November 2, 2006 by option+

[Pierre the Great]

I'm telling yeah want a team so bad with Quebec on it make an Stanley Cup playoff system around the provinces and territories. It would be a great get together moment for Canada.

Seeds:

1. Ontario

1. Quebec

2. British Columbia (I'd be rooting for them)

2. Alberta

3. Manitoba

3. Saskatchewan

4. Nova Scotia

4. New Brunswick

5. Newfoundland and Labrador

5. PEI

6. Yukon

6. NWT/Nunavut

It would work.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Pierre the Great

[option+]

I'm telling yeah want a team so bad with Quebec on it make an Stanley Cup playoff system around the provinces and territories. It would be a great get together moment for Canada.

Seeds:

1. Ontario

1. Quebec

2. British Columbia (I'd be rooting for them)

2. Alberta

3. Manitoba

3. Saskatchewan

4. Nova Scotia

4. New Brunswick

5. Newfoundland and Labrador

5. PEI

6. Yukon

6. NWT/Nunavut

It would work.

We would DESTROY Yukon. Geoff Sanderson scoring goals, Jordin Tootoo laying people out, Rob McVicar in net. NWT/Nunavut 5, Yukon 0.

[MAK]

We would DESTROY Yukon. Geoff Sanderson scoring goals, Jordin Tootoo laying people out, Rob McVicar in net. NWT/Nunavut 5, Yukon 0.

sanderson is from nwt ??

[TheBigRedC]

sanderson is from nwt ??

Yep. There is actually no one from Yukon that currently plays in the NHL, so I don't like their odds.

[Pierre the Great]

I was thinking more of minor league/junior players playing because I doubt NHLers would want to take part.

[Shu]

I'm fine with it.

As long as I get to see a Team Alberta.

thats such a good point, This is just furthering Quebec from Canada more (not good). Next thing you know in the olympics their will be team Quebec....................Next thing leads to next a then the seperatists are just where they want Quebec. This is a bad thing for Canada, it will seperate more.

[option+]

sanderson is from nwt ??

Yep. Sanderson was born in Hay River and grew up in Pine Point, a town that doesn't exist anymore.

Edited November 3, 2006 by option+

[shortcat1]

I'm fine with it.

As long as I get to see a Team Alberta.

and a team north-eastern Ontario too...

GO :hlogo: GO!

[markierung]

Horrible idea

Besides, international rule states that once a player has played for a country, he can NEVER play for another country.

For example, Bret Hull can never play for team Canada.

Also, guys like Brodeur, Luongo, Lecavalier, Gagne and all the great Quebec players would never be allowed to play for Quebec.

[Shu]

okay who voted three times yes......................

You guys are looking at the soft side of this thing, (the hockey part)

Please people look at the political part and the way it will affect Canada, whoever voted yes...........

[smon]

Who cares, like that clown Bertrand there's obviously going to be some people here who like to create something out of nothing.

[option+]

Horrible idea

Besides, international rule states that once a player has played for a country, he can NEVER play for another country.

For example, Bret Hull can never play for team Canada.

Also, guys like Brodeur, Luongo, Lecavalier, Gagne and all the great Quebec players would never be allowed to play for Quebec.

Brett Hull could have played for Canada if he wanted, he just chose not to out of loyalty to USA Hockey. Lots of guys have played for two different countries internationally. Petr Nedved comes to mind, as does Peter Stastny, who actually switched allegiances twice - Czechoslovakia to Canada to Slovakia.

[KoZed]

I voted yes.

Before reactionaries starts labeling me separatist (which I'm not), let's just make one thing clear: Quebec is already "seperated" from the rest of Canada, in the sense that its different, distinct, Aside from the very obvious linguistic & historic divide, there is countless facts & statistics that serves as proof of that reality. Quebec is not "just a province like any other". Never was, never will be. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

Quebec is a nation. Not a nation in the judicial-legal sense (ie. sovereign Nation-State, ie. a country) but a nation in the political-social sense (ie. a semi-sovereign federated nation-state with its own unique set of laws, cultural characteristics and social traits). Quebec is a nation, it views itself as such and acts as such.

This not a political ideology, this is an undeniable reality.

2008 will mark the 400th anniversary of the foundation of Quebec City and the creation of the subsequent Quebec nation. This is an historical event, which happens to coincide with the World Cup that will be presented in that very same city.

That is the context of the Team Quebec idea. A one-time exception to use the coincidence of the World Cup being presented in Quebec City at the same time as the 400th anniversary as a way to commemorate the history of the city and the birth of Quebec; which happens to be a hockey nation who made a significant contribution to the game. I think it is a good idea because it is an occasion to celebrate the anniversary on an international scale. It is not the best idea, maybe not the most practical idea, but it is definitely a good, legitimate one.

One-time exception to celebrate a significant historical event, I have no problem with that.

All that being said, I dont expect anyone to agree. I'm used to the same old traditional dismissal when it concerns Quebec "stepping out of line" or asking for "favored treatment". Its just how these things always goes... :glare:

[Pierre the Great]

I will not judge for its not my place, but when it comes to the Quebec issue I don't want to see either side get hurt. Its like a wound that will not heal no matter what you do to it.

Because in the end we are all brothers and sisters. I personally don't like the anti Quebec attitude in the West nor do I like the anti West attitude that sometimes comes out in Quebec.

We need to come together and sit together and just talk things out. Break these predijuces that plague our society.

If Quebec wants to become an independent state and they vote for it great good for them. I'll support you 100% but I just don't see how it could work.

The best way would have Quebec be semi automonous like Catalan in Spain. Thats where I see Quebec eventually going if it wants to go there its the only way. But I don't think Quebec can handle its share of debt.

As for the Quebec team, I understand where you are coming from KoZed. I just don't see it happening. Maybe on the Worlds the Quebec players can have the Quebec flag on there jersey or something. Quebec just isn't there yet, in my opinion.

[smon]

Well, it's a ridiculous situation if Quebec becomes semi-autonomous from the rest of Canada and starts icing their own national teams, etc, so forth.

Think about it folks! Canada is a BILINGUAL country! Why? So as to reflect the two founding cultures of the country. English and French. I mean what more recognition does Quebec need? It has already secured that in the Constitution.

The main resentment that the rest of Canada has for Quebec is that with bilingualism people believed that Trudeau had solved the problem. I certainly think he did. It ensures that French Canadians in every single part of Canada are assured the right to recieve federal service in their preferred language, and ensures their place as equal partners with anglophones. But therein lies the crux of the problem. Anglophones feel that they have done everything they can to help francophones join Canada, but obviously a significant number of francophones in Quebec are still not satisfied and don't consider themselves Canadian.

And that truly is a shame.

[KoZed]

The main resentment that the rest of Canada has for Quebec is that with bilingualism people believed that Trudeau had solved the problem. I certainly think he did. It ensures that French Canadians in every single part of Canada are assured the right to recieve federal service in their preferred language, and ensures their place as equal partners with anglophones. But therein lies the crux of the problem. Anglophones feel that they have done everything they can to help francophones join Canada, but obviously a significant number of francophones in Quebec are still not satisfied and don't consider themselves Canadian.

And that truly is a shame.

The Trudeau doctrine was simple: transferable individual rights (rights attached to individuals that follows them anywhere in Canada) would be better than collective rights (meaning rights attached to groups or communities). Its a doctrine directly inherited from the liberal philosophy, as opposed to collective rights which is from social-democrat creed, which always been prevalent in Quebec; another major difference. s

The problem with the Trudeau doctrine, as it became evident latter, is that equal individual rights, when applied to individuals of unequal collectivities (majority vs minority), are ineffective in assuring the minoritie's survival. That's why, even with the Official Languages Law written in the Constitution; francophone communities outside of Quebec kept declining and getting assimilated, while only the French in Quebec thrived; while similary anglophone minorities in Quebec kept declining and getting assimilated; all that even if language were protected by the Constitution. Francophones outside Quebec migrated to Quebec, and Anglophones in Quebec migrated outside.

So basically, Trudeau's doctrine is almost useless, except for slightly slowing down what it seeks to stop. Canada's not more bilingual, its just more polarized: more French in Quebec, more English outside of it. That's just how life happens. Politicies are imperfect solutions to permanent problems,

I think the actual crux of the problem was rather found in the Meech Lake Accord. That's what was supposed to fix the whole constitutionnal debate. The 5 minimum demands from Quebec would have satisfied basically everyone in Quebec by giving it the minimum self-determination powers it always seeked; without screwing or changing anything for the rest of Canada. But the 7/50 Rule being the aberation it is, we all know what happened. Some middle ground was found in Charlottetown, but it was too much for some, too little for the others.

The one solution is that the 5 articles from Meech Lake -- distinct society recognition, veto right for all provinces on constitutionnal amendments, right to pull out of any Federal program in a provincial field with compensation; increased power over immigration; and naming the 3 judges on the Supreme Court) be applied to all provinces in the Federation.

BTW, Quebec, like any province, is already semi-autonomous. Powers are divided between Federal and provincial governments. The problem is that the Federal government, as of Trudeau's Canadian nation-building doctrine, has to centralize and invade provincial fields of competence to maintain its predominance. The Meech Lake demands was basically just Quebec to say: "Butt out of our business, leave us the share of the money that belongs to us and we'll spend it ourselves."...

Loads of hair-pulling for very small issues...

[Pierre the Great]

If Canada gave veto powers to all the provinces then for example a gay couple in Quebec I garuntee would not be recognised as a married partner in Alberta.

You have to have a strong central government or the country will end up like Spain or an EU where only certain things apply here and certain things apply there.

That also leads to regionalism. For example when I move to BC, if something like that happend my primier would be more important then the PM who would mainly act like a figure head? Is that what we want as a country?

It should be 50/50 provincal/federal and not 75/25 provincal/federal.

[KoZed]

If Canada gave veto powers to all the provinces then for example a gay couple in Quebec I garuntee would not be recognised as a married partner in Alberta.

You have to have a strong central government or the country will end up like Spain or an EU where only certain things apply here and certain things apply there.

That also leads to regionalism. For example when I move to BC, if something like that happend my primier would be more important then the PM who would mainly act like a figure head? Is that what we want as a country?

It should be 50/50 provincal/federal and not 75/25 provincal/federal.

Back up, you're going too far there.

We're talking about minimal constitutionnal admendments here. Not a complete re-writting of the criminal code. If anything, provinces in Canada have less autonomy than States in the US where you can have Death penalty in a State but not in another.

Its been proven that the Supreme Court always tilt in favors of the central government. Add that to residual powers and Canada will always be garanteed to be strong. But Canada is a small population spread over a large territory with plenty of differences. But it can't be as strong as its trying to be without spending and spending. Regionalism is already omnipresent anyway, like it or not, and it's not gonna change. That's just how things are.

Better have a system adapted to reality than to fight what will never change anyway. Just like you don't try to play the trap when your goalie sucks and none of your forwards likes to backcheck. You work with what you've got and try to make the most of it. Sadly too many people get all feely-touchy about politics rather than just try to figure out what is the best interest for everyone in the bottom line.