Aebischer4life Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) Let's look at our lineup. Offense: Not only are we a horrible 5 on 5 team (on par with Philly) but our forwards despite being good on the pp dont have a lot of points overall. Our 3rd line is a bunch of 10 goal-30 point scorers, our 2nd line has Pleks and Lats who are on pace for 38 points and Kovalev who is on pace for less then 60, then a top line consisting of Higgins who is on pace for 56 points and Ryder on pace for 55. ONLY PLAYER ON PACE FOR MORE THEN 60 POINTS ON THIS TEAM IS KOIVU! (71) Now... lets take a look at our d: Rivet: Horrible defensively, offensively, skating wise, first pass wise. Grade: D Souray: Good for one thing. Horrible mobility/lateral movement, first pass wise, skating wise. Grade: C Bouillon: A good body checker and skater. Grade: B- Komi: I dont see what the hype is about this guy. He's slow and has a terrible shot. Terrible first pass as well. Sure he hits... but what else does he do? Grade: C Dandenault: A good dman for his role (#6). Good skater. Grade: C Markov: He's the only great dman we have. So what do you expect? Just because we have a great goalie and a good captain and a dmen who can shoot + one great dmen... were all of a sudden a GREAT team? This team is a borderline playoff team. Only difference from last year is that we've had Huet full time which has made our pk much better. Our pp is as great (or a little better) as last year when we were 5th. Edited January 28, 2007 by Aebischer4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Well, yes I would hope everyone realized that the team overachieved for the first half. Even Guy Carbonneau said as much in interviews. The onus is on Gainey to shake things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesquik Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I don,t think that looking at stats is such a good thing... Look at Koivu you guys all love him, but 71.... He isn't in the top 30 of the league, don't get me wrong, but if you look at stats so much, Koivu isn't one of the ebst players of the league, points do not count at all depends on how you play, what I will be blaming is the time on ice, some players don't get any time on ice. Kovalev is always there it's like if he pays Carbonneau so he can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebischer4life Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 I don,t think that looking at stats is such a good thing... Look at Koivu you guys all love him, but 71.... He isn't in the top 30 of the league, don't get me wrong, but if you look at stats so much, Koivu isn't one of the ebst players of the league, points do not count at all depends on how you play, what I will be blaming is the time on ice, some players don't get any time on ice. Kovalev is always there it's like if he pays Carbonneau so he can play. HUH? If you dont score you dont win. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Aebischer4life makes some very good observations except I think he rates Markov to be a better player than he is. I like Markov and hope he and KREX can be Habs for a long time. Both are still fairly young and will have upside. The rest I could not care if they stayed. I am excited to see Montreal give their young forwards a chance, then dejected as Samsonov and Kovalev float. Ryder is threat once in a while, then disappears, but he was a late round pick so he gets a pass in expectations. (Unless he wants a raise ) Back to basics Habs players, entertain us and show up for games, its all we ask for. And please give us victories over Leafs!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I don,t think that looking at stats is such a good thing... Look at Koivu you guys all love him, but 71.... He isn't in the top 30 of the league, don't get me wrong, but if you look at stats so much, Koivu isn't one of the ebst players of the league, points do not count at all depends on how you play, what I will be blaming is the time on ice, some players don't get any time on ice. Kovalev is always there it's like if he pays Carbonneau so he can play. Koivu is more of a playmaker and when the guys you are making plays for don't finish you don't get points. I am not even gonna talk about Kovalev. Gainey should have a trade ready to go by now, the Habs have been predictable all season. I think if he doesnt make a big move at the deadline this team will be fighting for 8th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mils Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 HUH? If you dont score you dont win. Simple as that. I tend to agree with Nesquik to a certain point. Though points DO matter, they aren't always perfectly determinitive of who the best players are (though the two are very closely related). The best player on a team is the one who makes everyone around him better. So, I think I understand Nesquik's point of view, but it's tough when nobody on the team is producing. That's a case of "if you don't score, you don't win" for sure. Offense is only half the game though. Good defense and Huet-style goaltending allows you a little more room for offensive mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Well, yes I would hope everyone realized that the team overachieved for the first half. Even Guy Carbonneau said as much in interviews. The onus is on Gainey to shake things up. Give me a break. Why would you shake things up if you are in the position that the Habs are in right now? You wouldn't unless you are where the Bruins, Leafs, and possibly the Penguins are right now. Carbonneau saying that the team "overachieved" is nothing more then media fodder to keep his team on thier game. Don't believe me?, look at all the other comments he has made before the "half season report card" that media likes to use. Not once will you hear him say "wow!, I expected to lose all eight games to Buffalo and Ottawa this year. The hockey Gods must like us because we just aren't that good" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesquik Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 HUH? If you dont score you dont win. Simple as that. You got to score, we all know you do, but the points the player has isn't what makes him so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebischer4life Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 You got to score, we all know you do, but the points the player has isn't what makes him so great. If a player makes his teammates better then he would have a lot more assists then a mere 26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesquik Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 If a player makes his teammates better then he would have a lot more assists then a mere 26. If a player commes in the enemy zone and makes this great play, he prepares everything dekes to players, passes it to the center, center to the defense, defense to the right wing, shoots and goal, the player who deked both players and kept posession of the puck while the other players were getting place isn't going to get an assist, we can't give three assists to a goal, sometimes their should be but their isn't.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebischer4life Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 If a player commes in the enemy zone and makes this great play, he prepares everything dekes to players, passes it to the center, center to the defense, defense to the right wing, shoots and goal, the player who deked both players and kept posession of the puck while the other players were getting place isn't going to get an assist, we can't give three assists to a goal, sometimes their should be but their isn't.... Well if a player has the talent to deke around players and pass it to someone else, in the long haul he would have a lot more then 26 assists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Why would you shake things up if you are in the position that the Habs are in right now? Right now, the position the team is in is not an enviable one. At best, they're treading water. After the performance last night in TO, they certainly aren't progressing by any stretch of the imagination. They couldn't get out of their own zone with a police escort, and they way they make giveaways, they should be registered as a lottery. Chalk it up to the All-Star break layoff if you want, but we've seen it too many times in recent weeks. Souray said it after the game, they played soft and easy to play against and have been for a while. How many times were Leaf players either standing next to Huet when he froze the puck or when goals were scored? I swear we are the only team in the league right now that has any respect for opposing goalies, 'cause there's rarely, if ever, anyone bothering them too much. And that's why they average 30+ shots against per game. If Begin, yes Begin, doesn't get back into the line-up soon, the team could very well see the pack getting closer and closer to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesquik Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Well if a player has the talent to deke around players and pass it to someone else, in the long haul he would have a lot more then 26 assists. No, Kovalev or Samsonov can easily deke two players on their own, I saw them do it, but guess what? They don't have lots of points... What's wrong there? Two good players capable of dekeing two players on their own but can't even achieve 50 points... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Look guys...nobody likes losing to the leafs, and we can all agree, the team is not playing well. But lets not blame our captain. We just found out yesterday he is cancer free and have commented all season on how inspired he has been. Point being, there are a lot of problems at the root of this, and I dont believe Koivu is one of them....He may bring them out of this, but he is not the cause of it. So let's show a little respect, be less fickle, and dont jump on the captain as soon as the team lose......there are other so called "leaders" on this team that deserve more criticism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Look guys...nobody likes losing to the leafs, and we can all agree, the team is not playing well. But lets not blame our captain. We just found out yesterday he is cancer free and have commented all season on how inspired he has been. Point being, there are a lot of problems at the root of this, and I dont believe Koivu is one of them....He may bring them out of this, but he is not the cause of it. So let's show a little respect, be less fickle, and dont jump on the captain as soon as the team lose......there are other so called "leaders" on this team that deserve more criticism If there are, then they better step up and do a lot more leading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebischer4life Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 No, Kovalev or Samsonov can easily deke two players on their own, I saw them do it, but guess what? They don't have lots of points... What's wrong there? Two good players capable of dekeing two players on their own but can't even achieve 50 points... Samsonov doesnt pass when he dekes a couple guys. He tries to shoot and it gets blocked. Kovalevs the only exception but he doesnt have any finishers on his line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I think its a surprise to all of us that this team is doing so well, they they can compete with the best teams in the league. They arent perfect, but Id give them decent odds in a playoff series against most teams in our conference. That said, they are still building. This summer will give the habs a chance to shed some deadweight: http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/modules.p...le&sid=8086 Definitely gone: Ninemma & Rivet - treedle dee and tweedle dum, making a combined 5 mill a year. BYE Aebischer - has lost the habs a lot more games than he's won. We have much better young goalies in our system for a fraction of the cost. Maybe... Bonk & Johnson - Two of our best 5 v 5 players, havent put up great points (but do have a solid +/-), are they worth 4.5 mill to keep around another year or two? Tough call, but thats why we have Bob Gainey to make it. I guess their play down the stretch and into the playoffs will be a large factor in the decision (to be compared with the play of their potential replacements in the system). Keep... Downey - Paid minimum salary, can bang in the playoffs. Comfortable with reality as a scratch most nights. Trades... Wouldnt be opposed to shipping off one or two of our younger prospects if we can land a standout in return. All of Gainey's trades so far have paid off. Guys forget about trading Samsonov, While he's slumping it wont happen for anything other than draft choices or equally useless players. Unless we just want to dump his salary, it seems like it would be a waste too. We should trust Gainey's instincts and at least allow him the full 2 years of his contract to fit in and find his groove. To replace the D men, with the 5 mill we could bring up a kid from the AHL and sign a free agent (seems like quite a crop out there this year), hopefully someone who is good at breakout passing 5 v 5, cuz that seems like an area the habs are really deficient in. These things plus the general improvement from more league experience for the younger crop should result in an upgrade of our already decent team (and we are better than the majority of the league). Steady as she goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Let's look at our lineup. Offense: Not only are we a horrible 5 on 5 team (on par with Philly) but our forwards despite being good on the pp dont have a lot of points overall. Our 3rd line is a bunch of 10 goal-30 point scorers, our 2nd line has Pleks and Lats who are on pace for 38 points and Kovalev who is on pace for less then 60, then a top line consisting of Higgins who is on pace for 56 points and Ryder on pace for 55. ONLY PLAYER ON PACE FOR MORE THEN 60 POINTS ON THIS TEAM IS KOIVU! (71) Now... lets take a look at our d: Rivet: Horrible defensively, offensively, skating wise, first pass wise. Grade: D Souray: Good for one thing. Horrible mobility/lateral movement, first pass wise, skating wise. Grade: C Bouillon: A good body checker and skater. Grade: B- Komi: I dont see what the hype is about this guy. He's slow and has a terrible shot. Terrible first pass as well. Sure he hits... but what else does he do? Grade: C Dandenault: A good dman for his role (#6). Good skater. Grade: C Markov: He's the only great dman we have. So what do you expect? Just because we have a great goalie and a good captain and a dmen who can shoot + one great dmen... were all of a sudden a GREAT team? This team is a borderline playoff team. Only difference from last year is that we've had Huet full time which has made our pk much better. Our pp is as great (or a little better) as last year when we were 5th. The general point is credible, but the specifics are off the beam. Rating Bouillon ahead of Souray and Komi?? I love the attitude that focuses obsessively on what a player *can't* do. Sure, Souray is in the league's top-5 offensive defencemen, but who cares? He has weaknesses, so therefore he's crap. OK, Komi is still learning and he's a bone-crushing and effective stay at home D-man, but there are times when he struggles, so he's just crap. Etc., etc. Look, if this team could get production from its second line, the picture would be considerably different. Let's not go off the deep end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Not surprised to lose that game against Toronto, they are in adesparate situation and they played more desperate than we did. You're bitching about the defense and some front players is a complete lost of time. The whole team should take the blame and drive the opponent freaking net. This team just need a continuous kick in the butt to go to work that the biggest problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Right now, the position the team is in is not an enviable one. At best, they're treading water. After the performance last night in TO, they certainly aren't progressing by any stretch of the imagination. They couldn't get out of their own zone with a police escort, and they way they make giveaways, they should be registered as a lottery. Chalk it up to the All-Star break layoff if you want, but we've seen it too many times in recent weeks. Souray said it after the game, they played soft and easy to play against and have been for a while. How many times were Leaf players either standing next to Huet when he froze the puck or when goals were scored? I swear we are the only team in the league right now that has any respect for opposing goalies, 'cause there's rarely, if ever, anyone bothering them too much. And that's why they average 30+ shots against per game. If Begin, yes Begin, doesn't get back into the line-up soon, the team could very well see the pack getting closer and closer to them. I agree 100%. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if your team allows the 3rd most shots in the NHL per game then there's a problem. Trust me, unlike what some may think, Gainey knows that the team isn't fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Fickle fans we are. Trust me I am upset after the loss to the Leafs but it is just one game and the Habs have a chance to beat the Leafs three more times this season. If I were to ask you these questions what would your answers be. 1. The Habs after 50 games the Habs would be in 5th one point behind 4th place would you be happy? 2. The Canadiens have the 2nd best PP and 4th best PK in the league are you happy? 3. In their last three games against the Leafs and Division leading Sabres and Thrashers the Habs won two of those games are you happy? I do not know about you guys but I would say yes. Come on guys the glass is still more the half full. Go Habs GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 It's what happens after 82 games that counts not 50. The way they are playing in the last 20 is under 500. 20 games is a trend. A bad one at that. I just don't see any effort, that is my problem with these lazy slugs. In case any players read the board: I have a few tips Transition Game: This means clearing the puck quickly out of your end and giving your team a chance to forecheck or acore. This does not mean turning the puck over from one side of your zone to the other. Speed: This means using your legs to skate fast, not stand there and watch the other team skate around you. Physical play; This means initiating body contact with another player. Not standing there and getting hit, then turning the puck over. Just a few tips for the players. It's called dump and chase, not ice the puck and chase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Fickle fans we are. Trust me I am upset after the loss to the Leafs but it is just one game and the Habs have a chance to beat the Leafs three more times this season. If I were to ask you these questions what would your answers be. 1. The Habs after 50 games the Habs would be in 5th one point behind 4th place would you be happy? 2. The Canadiens have the 2nd best PP and 4th best PK in the league are you happy? 3. In their last three games against the Leafs and Division leading Sabres and Thrashers the Habs won two of those games are you happy? I do not know about you guys but I would say yes. Come on guys the glass is still more the half full. Go Habs GO Hell I enjoy wearing blinders as much as the next guy so sure. If you want to ignore reality and just stare at the positive and completely ignore everything else why don't we take the red out of our colours and call ourselves Montreal Maple Leaf JRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 We lost. It was to the Leafs and we are all just disgusted :puke: . What makes it worse is that we have waited a week for our Habs. So, that makes it sting even more. If the Buffalo victory last weekend had occured last thursday, would we be this gloomy? No TAKE A DEEP BREATH ALL, AND RELAX Tomorrow #29 and the win will make it better. We'll see you on February 26th Toronto. By then we might have made a trade that truly disgusts you . February 26th, we'll get it back. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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