MAK Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 The Hall of Fame is for players who were among the elite in their era. Koivu has always been a key player on the Habs and their captain, but there is no way he has ever had even a single season where he would be listed among the league's elite players. the closest was in 95 when he sprained his ankle against chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_glorieux Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 This has been my wallpaper for the last little while: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 The Hall of Fame is for players who were among the elite in their era. Koivu has always been a key player on the Habs and their captain, but there is no way he has ever had even a single season where he would be listed among the league's elite players. The year of his first injury when he was leadiing the leage in points he would have been Also he is a PPG player in the playoffs. Also he has finished near the top in scoring in many international events. I would consider Havlat one of the leagues elite players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Do Koivu's career production and achievements make him worthy of having his number retired? No way in hell. Do the intangibles; Koivu's dedication, long term as captain and leader of the team, his comeback from cancer to play a complete season the following year, his comeback from an almost career-ending injury to put up career highs in goals and points the next season (while only missing 1 game), his Saku Koivu Foundation, his many visits to local hospitals, etc, etc... overrule his lower production? Possibly. That's what's up for debate. He may not even be comparable to the other honoured greats in some ways, but in other ways - there is not another soul comparable to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 (edited) If he is worthy of the NHL hall of fame, he is worthy of having his sweater retired....though he is neither as it stands now. I'm glad to see all the positive comments about Koivu, but it makes me kind of sick to see that half of you will be calling him out after the next loss. I know most of you are true fans of his, like myself, but I'm sure some of the posters on this thread were his nay-sayers.. Actually the retirement of a habs sweater is a MUCH more selective honour than Hall of Fame membership. Here are habs in the Hall. I've put an asterisk next to the retired sweaters. Martin A. (Marty) Barry Jean Arthur Beliveau* Hector (Toe) Blake Emile (Butch) Bouchard Harold Hugh (Harry) Cameron Sprague Cleghorn Yvan Serge (Roadrunner) Cournoyer* Gordon Arthur Drillon Kenneth Wayne Dryden* Dick Duff William Ronald (Bill) Durnan Anthony James (Tony) Esposito Robert Michael (Bob) Gainey Herbert Martin (Herb) Gardiner James Henry (Jimmy) Gardner Bernard Joseph Andre (Boom Boom) Geoffrion* George Hainsworth Joseph Henry (Joe) Hall Douglas Norman Harvey* Thomas Christian (Tom) Johnson Aurel Emile Joliat Elmer James Lach Guy Damien Lafleur* Edouard (Newsy) Lalonde Rod Corry Langway Joseph Jacques Hughes Laperriere Guy Gerard Lapointe Jean Baptiste (Jack) Laviolette Jacques Gerard Lemaire Francis William (Frank) Mahovlich Maurice Joseph (Joe) Malone Sylvio Mantha Richard Winston (Dickie) Moore* Howard William (Howie) Morenz* Edward Reginald (Reg) Noble Herbert William (Buddy) O'Connor Murray Bert Olmstead Didier Pitre Joseph Jacques (Jake the Snake) Plante* Kenneth Joseph (Kenny) Reardon Joseph Henri (Pocket Rocket) Richard* Joseph Henri Maurice (The Rocket) Richard* Larry Robinson Patrick Roy Denis Savard Serge Aubrey Savard* Stephen John Shutt Albert Charles (Babe) Siebert Thomas J. Smith Georges Vezina Lorne John (Gump) Worsley Roy (Shrimp) Worters If Steve Shutt deserves to be in the Hall - which he does - then so does Saku Koivu. Edited April 5, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Didn't Steve Shutt put up 60-goal seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Didn't Steve Shutt put up 60-goal seasons? One. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 (edited) In a different era, man. One where 60 goal seasons were not the freakishly good aberration that a 60 goal year would be considered now. Edited April 5, 2007 by smon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 One. Yeah I think he did something crazy like. 15 30 45 60 +15 each season in 4 staright seasons. It could have just been the final 3 but somethng along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Koivu's meant a lot to the team, but his stats just aren't good enough for the Hall of Fame. Sure, if some of those injuries never happened, or he puts up some consecutive 70+pt years in the future it might be different, but what-ifs just don't cut it. Great player nonetheless though, and right up there in the history of Habs captains. He's easily had one of the weakest supporting casts of the team's history during his tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 One. I figured. I looked up his career production and he broke 45 goals 3 more times. 11 times he played over 50 games in a season. He broke the 30-goal mark 9 of those times, once playing only 57 games. It doesn't really compare with Koivu's newfound career-high of 22 in 79 games, so far. His points-per-game is also a respectable amount higher than Koivu's. As I wrote in my last post, Koivu's a great player and deserves consideration to be honoured - but that consideration has absolutely nothing to do with his goal and point production. And that Steve Shutt is worthy of being a Hall of Famer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 In a different era, man. One where 60 goal seasons were not the freakishly good aberration that a 60 goal year would be considered now. 60 goals happened about once every 2 or 3 seasons back then, I would say. The mark has only been past about 30 times in all of history, I believe. 70 was eclipsed 14 times. Just last season Cheechoo put up 56 goals and that was playing half the year without Joe Thornton, who put up 136 points. Jagr put up 135. Things are not so different between then and now, except that some teams were ridiculously stacked so certain players had inflated stats. But Shutt was a consistant 30-40 goal scorer throughout his entire career and there's no sense ignoring his 60-goal season just because of the era he played in. How many other Habs in that era scored 60 goals? I don't think any other habs ever has! Another thing about Shutt is that he has 98 playoff points in 99 games. Those aren't ordinary numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Shutt's stats are better than Koivu's, although he really only had that one ferocious year. But think about it - which player would you rather have on your team? Shutt was a fine player and worthy Hall of Famer but Koivu is, all around, a more valuable player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Shutt's stats are better than Koivu's, although he really only had that one ferocious year. But think about it - which player would you rather have on your team? Shutt was a fine player and worthy Hall of Famer but Koivu is, all around, a more valuable player. regardless... i'm glad that shutt played with lafleur & co... he was a fine fit. GO :hlogo: GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 al ot of apples and oranges here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 al ot of apples and oranges here..... true enough... but i'm glad to have been able to taste both the apple and the orange... both are healthy for my team and pleasing to my canadiens 'diet' GO :hlogo: GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOOPAVILLIN Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 As one of those who complained when Koivu was playing poorly earlier this season, it wouldn't be right if I didn't acknowledge that he has been exceptional lately - when we need him most. I love the little guy to bits, and am impressed at how he has raised his game. And, to achieve career highs in goals and (probably) points after a major injury is spectacular. My hat is off to the captain. I couldn't have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I'm glad he has woken up of late. We sure can use his energy, creativity, scoring and play making on SAT against Toronto! GO KOIVU GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I'm glad he has woken up of late. We sure can use his energy, creativity, scoring and play making on SAT against Toronto! GO KOIVU GO! Koivu has scored 5 goals on the Leafs this season. Prior to that he only scored 4 in 35 games lets hope he continues this years trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I had to come back to this thread and revive the discussion a bit. Now that the Habs are out of the playoffs, everyone's pointing fingers, but there are a few members of this hockey club that do not deserve this crap. One of them is Bob Gainey, another is Saku Koivu: STOP WITH THE KOIVU BULLCRAP I'm sick of hearing some ignorant Habs fans out there burning this guy at the stake for "not being a leader", "not having the offensive production we expect", being "useless to the team", etc. The guy's one of the best leaders in the NHL, and don't take my word for it. Ask anyone who's played with him. His offensive production? He just had the best season of his career (despite a serious eye injury last spring. Oh yeah, remember that?) For crying out loud. How can you ask more from this guy? Sure he's not perfect (his usual penalty is the hook; seems to be his achilles heel.. he also has some dry spells, but who doesn't?) but he gives it his best every night, and even though he doesn't score a great deal, he sets up the plays (and for that reason often goes unnoticed and underappreciated). Koivu is, and always has been, above all else, a playmaker. And he's a damn good one at that (not to mention a shoot-out superhero). It just boggles the mind how some fans out there can possibly hate on this guy. Whether or not you think he's worth 4.75$million is a question of opinion, (i personally think he is, and then some) but to hate on him for what he brought to the table this year... is nothing short of asinine. If you want to rip on someone, rip on Kovalev, Samsonov, Aebischer, etc. Leave Koivu out of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House11 Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I had to come back to this thread and revive the discussion a bit. Now that the Habs are out of the playoffs, everyone's pointing fingers, but there are a few members of this hockey club that do not deserve this crap. One of them is Bob Gainey, another is Saku Koivu: STOP WITH THE KOIVU BULLCRAP I'm sick of hearing some ignorant Habs fans out there burning this guy at the stake for "not being a leader", "not having the offensive production we expect", being "useless to the team", etc. The guy's one of the best leaders in the NHL, and don't take my word for it. Ask anyone who's played with him. His offensive production? He just had the best season of his career (despite a serious eye injury last spring. Oh yeah, remember that?) For crying out loud. How can you ask more from this guy? Sure he's not perfect (his usual penalty is the hook; seems to be his achilles heel.. he also has some dry spells, but who doesn't?) but he gives it his best every night, and even though he doesn't score a great deal, he sets up the plays (and for that reason often goes unnoticed and underappreciated). Koivu is, and always has been, above all else, a playmaker. And he's a damn good one at that (not to mention a shoot-out superhero). It just boggles the mind how some fans out there can possibly hate on this guy. Whether or not you think he's worth 4.75$million is a question of opinion, (i personally think he is, and then some) but to hate on him for what he brought to the table this year... is nothing short of asinine. If you want to rip on someone, rip on Kovalev, Samsonov, Aebischer, etc. Leave Koivu out of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfan88 Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I have never understood the Koivu bashers out there... Koivu is always going to be my favorite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze53 Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I had to come back to this thread and revive the discussion a bit. Now that the Habs are out of the playoffs, everyone's pointing fingers, but there are a few members of this hockey club that do not deserve this crap. One of them is Bob Gainey, another is Saku Koivu: STOP WITH THE KOIVU BULLCRAP I'm sick of hearing some ignorant Habs fans out there burning this guy at the stake for "not being a leader", "not having the offensive production we expect", being "useless to the team", etc. The guy's one of the best leaders in the NHL, and don't take my word for it. Ask anyone who's played with him. His offensive production? He just had the best season of his career (despite a serious eye injury last spring. Oh yeah, remember that?) For crying out loud. How can you ask more from this guy? Sure he's not perfect (his usual penalty is the hook; seems to be his achilles heel.. he also has some dry spells, but who doesn't?) but he gives it his best every night, and even though he doesn't score a great deal, he sets up the plays (and for that reason often goes unnoticed and underappreciated). Koivu is, and always has been, above all else, a playmaker. And he's a damn good one at that (not to mention a shoot-out superhero). It just boggles the mind how some fans out there can possibly hate on this guy. Whether or not you think he's worth 4.75$million is a question of opinion, (i personally think he is, and then some) but to hate on him for what he brought to the table this year... is nothing short of asinine. If you want to rip on someone, rip on Kovalev, Samsonov, Aebischer, etc. Leave Koivu out of this. Holysmokes, nobody else could have said that better than you bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I had to come back to this thread and revive the discussion a bit. Now that the Habs are out of the playoffs, everyone's pointing fingers, but there are a few members of this hockey club that do not deserve this crap. One of them is Bob Gainey, another is Saku Koivu: STOP WITH THE KOIVU BULLCRAP I'm sick of hearing some ignorant Habs fans out there burning this guy at the stake for "not being a leader", "not having the offensive production we expect", being "useless to the team", etc. The guy's one of the best leaders in the NHL, and don't take my word for it. Ask anyone who's played with him. His offensive production? He just had the best season of his career (despite a serious eye injury last spring. Oh yeah, remember that?) For crying out loud. How can you ask more from this guy? Sure he's not perfect (his usual penalty is the hook; seems to be his achilles heel.. he also has some dry spells, but who doesn't?) but he gives it his best every night, and even though he doesn't score a great deal, he sets up the plays (and for that reason often goes unnoticed and underappreciated). Koivu is, and always has been, above all else, a playmaker. And he's a damn good one at that (not to mention a shoot-out superhero). It just boggles the mind how some fans out there can possibly hate on this guy. Whether or not you think he's worth 4.75$million is a question of opinion, (i personally think he is, and then some) but to hate on him for what he brought to the table this year... is nothing short of asinine. If you want to rip on someone, rip on Kovalev, Samsonov, Aebischer, etc. Leave Koivu out of this. hear hear The people who constantly bitch about koivu would probably still find reasons for moaning even if we had sakic, heatly and kovalchuk as our first line. He is a top 20 centre in the league, plays with grit, makes others look good, and we've seen how quickly the wheels fall off without him. Saku is at the core of the team, and at 4.5 mil he is infact a bit of a bargain compared to a lot of 6-7 mill players of similar calibre who bring the same qualities to the table, or big name 3.5-5 mill players who are disappointments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I had to come back to this thread and revive the discussion a bit. Now that the Habs are out of the playoffs, everyone's pointing fingers, but there are a few members of this hockey club that do not deserve this crap. One of them is Bob Gainey, another is Saku Koivu: STOP WITH THE KOIVU BULLCRAP I'm sick of hearing some ignorant Habs fans out there burning this guy at the stake for "not being a leader", "not having the offensive production we expect", being "useless to the team", etc. The guy's one of the best leaders in the NHL, and don't take my word for it. Ask anyone who's played with him. His offensive production? He just had the best season of his career (despite a serious eye injury last spring. Oh yeah, remember that?) For crying out loud. How can you ask more from this guy? Sure he's not perfect (his usual penalty is the hook; seems to be his achilles heel.. he also has some dry spells, but who doesn't?) but he gives it his best every night, and even though he doesn't score a great deal, he sets up the plays (and for that reason often goes unnoticed and underappreciated). Koivu is, and always has been, above all else, a playmaker. And he's a damn good one at that (not to mention a shoot-out superhero). It just boggles the mind how some fans out there can possibly hate on this guy. Whether or not you think he's worth 4.75$million is a question of opinion, (i personally think he is, and then some) but to hate on him for what he brought to the table this year... is nothing short of asinine. If you want to rip on someone, rip on Kovalev, Samsonov, Aebischer, etc. Leave Koivu out of this. Couldnt agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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