l<OV4L3V Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 The topic is Kovy and Koivu. It's about high paid low rewards players. These two players shoull be pulled out of any leadership situation. The real leader of this team is Higgins, while Koivu is the honorary captain. The thing is that we have no idea what the team sill look like next year, but we all wish somewhere that a new flame will light the torch. Last season Koivu was in a whole other world than Kovalev, they dont deserve to be put in the same sentence as each other. I have never seen Saku play so good. I kind of wish that Mikko Koivu would be traded for Samsonov and some Picks. So, Koivu-Koivu-Ryder as first line. It would kind of be like the Sedin's in Vancouver all over again. However, Koivu rightfully so deserves his captaincy with putting up career stats this season. The only recent captaincy stripping in the NHL was from Mike Modano to Morrow, and that was because Modano did not want the role anymore. Higgins had a year where he never returned to normal after his series of injuries. Give him one more year to prove himself before giving him the 'A' too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Last season Koivu was in a whole other world than Kovalev, they dont deserve to be put in the same sentence as each other. I have never seen Saku play so good. I kind of wish that Mikko Koivu would be traded for Samsonov and some Picks. So, Koivu-Koivu-Ryder as first line. It would kind of be like the Sedin's in Vancouver all over again. However, Koivu rightfully so deserves his captaincy with putting up career stats this season. The only recent captaincy stripping in the NHL was from Mike Modano to Morrow, and that was because Modano did not want the role anymore. Higgins had a year where he never returned to normal after his series of injuries. Give him one more year to prove himself before giving him the 'A' too quickly. Just to clairify a bit, Modano did want the captaincy and was very pissed about being stripped, his on ice play showed that through the first month or two. Not a happy camper. Second , I love Higgins and his play, but everyone on here has a tendancy to blow his leadership qualities out of proportion. he might very well be a captain in the future but he is no where near it right now. people saying he is the leader and Saku is an "honourary captain" is laughable at best. If you ask any player on the team who the leader is they will give you one of two players.... Saku or Souray (Rivet when he was here as well). The only reason fans don't think about Souray as being a leader is because "he is terrible defensively" which is also exhaggerated for some reason (convenience maybe?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Koivu's achievement and leadership are two things completely different. I agree we can't pull off is C on the jersey but since he was the captain there has always been "clique" in the locker room. I don't expect all the players to be friends, i just expect a captain to bring everyone together instead of creating a group of friends around him and pull aside the other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Koivu's achievement and leadership are two things completely different. I agree we can't pull off is C on the jersey but since he was the captain there has always been "clique" in the locker room. I don't expect all the players to be friends, i just expect a captain to bring everyone together instead of creating a group of friends around him and pull aside the other players. Couldn't agree more with you on this issue. You got Saku and Friends, the French Clique, and the Russian Mafia. The team needs the chemistry like they had two years ago...I remember when Gainey took them out for a dinner and movie when he took over as coach to finish the season. It all starts at Saku, and they need to do things as a team outside the dressing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 man the views on Koivu ARGG!! people this is the dude that had an eye injury and still managed to play good if not great given the circumstances so cut him some slack please! regarding Kovalev yes there is something wrong.... u got to give him the benefit of doubt that the (coaching/Soviet players) synchro might have negated or enhanced Kovalev's worse season so far with the Habs. still he is the most talented player and Carbo has to find how to make his Soviet players (whats left of them and thos who are coming up) happy ... I rather play both Sammy and Kovy again before droping them for nothing... if they get traded ok good! if not good again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfposi Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) regarding Kovalev yes there is something wrong.... u got to give him the benefit of doubt that the (coaching/Soviet players) synchro might have negated or enhanced Kovalev's worse season so far with the Habs. still he is the most talented player and Carbo has to find how to make his Soviet players (whats left of them and thos who are coming up) happy ... I rather play both Sammy and Kovy again before droping them for nothing... if they get traded ok good! if not good again! I agree...in principle... I do not think that keeping both of them is a good idea. In the ideal world, we would keep Kovy and trade Sammy. Unfortunately I do not think Sammy is as valuable on the trade market as Kovy. Despite the fact that Sammy is younger...there are definitely teams that would rather Kovy over Sammy (i.e. Caps). Personally I think we will be without Kovy next year and Sammy will take his place. Personally I think this may be a good thing. With all due respect to Kovy's "tremendous skill", at least Sammy put forth an effort every-night! Edited May 23, 2007 by cfposi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 I don't know about you guys but I'm pretty tired of the traditional "wait until next year" on the Habs players. How many years have people said that? There is way more talent in the orginization now. I have problem letting them both go. I can think of several others to go as well. Great point CFposi, atleast Samsonov hustles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfposi Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Great point CFposi, atleast Samsonov hustles. Yeh...my feeling is: When you see effort from a talented player...the points will follow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revin5 Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 You know what, if the Habs had 3 # 2 lines next year, and 1 shut-down/energy line, then I would think that was dandy. I'd be surprised if we end up getting a quality A-1 center via trade this summer. I don't think that Gainey wants to mortgage the future quite yet. Higgins-Plecks-Kostitsyn Ryder - Koivu - Latendress Samsonov - Grabovsky - Kovalev (don't think those two are heading anywhere unless we get junk back) Begin - Chippchura -Johnson No problem with those players, but Samsonov and Kovalev cannot be put on the same line. Higgins-Plecks-Kostitsyn Samsonov-Koivu-Ryder Latendresse-Grabovsky-Kovalev Begin-Chipchura-Lapierre ... I just think Lapierre brings more to the game than Johnson does. He plays exactly the same game as Jan Bulis except not as many highlight reel crossbars. I'd be happier with Bulis back. I'm just looking at that fourth line again... I really hope that's what we line up with next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Yeh...my feeling is: When you see effort from a talented player...the points will follow! Samsonov's effort was not really the question, it was his decision making. He'd continually pass up high quality scoring chances and look to dish to a linemate who was either covered on in a far worse position than he was. Sometimes the playmaker has to make the play himself and not just set up his linemates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Not to mention his permiter play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Yeh...my feeling is: When you see effort from a talented player...the points will follow! Which is great but Samsonov doesn't want to be hear! He wants out so we may as well show him some respect and trade him. Even if we played him on the 1st line he wouldn't be happy with Carbo. We're better off buying hi out than keeping him. He's just another distractoin - our team has enough as things are, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Which is great but Samsonov doesn't want to be hear! He wants out so we may as well show him some respect and trade him. Even if we played him on the 1st line he wouldn't be happy with Carbo. We're better off buying hi out than keeping him. He's just another distractoin - our team has enough as things are, It's true. I really can't foresee either Carbo or Sammy give the other another chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfposi Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 It's true. I really can't foresee either Carbo or Sammy give the other another chance. It truly is a shame...I was so excited whent he Habs signed him last summer. Although I was disapointed throughout the season, I secretly hoped he could come back next season in a way similar to Bonk. He is still young...I just know he has many good years ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 It truly is a shame...I was so excited whent he Habs signed him last summer. Although I was disapointed throughout the season, I secretly hoped he could come back next season in a way similar to Bonk. He is still young...I just know he has many good years ahead of him. I'm in the same boat. When they signed him there wasn't another player on the open market that fit montreals playing style like Sammy did. or so we thought. Sammy's failure (IMO) should be directly linked to Carbo and his misuse. Sammy is not a flash in the pan player and has consistently been an offensive threat since his calder winning days in Beantown. What other explaination is there really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Well i have some explanations: 1. Hasn't done much since being away from Thornton 2. He is over rated (like all habs players) 3. Couldn't find line mates or a center to match his style. There are many reasons for not performing to blame Carbo is wrong. Many players in interviews and the coaching staff have been on record (the latest is Lats) as stating that Carbo LET's the offensive players be creative and pretty much do what they want offensively. The commitment to play is always there but he doesn't want to choke off the offensive players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 2. He is over rated (like all habs players) Big generalization there, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Well i have some explanations: 1. Hasn't done much since being away from Thornton 2. He is over rated (like all habs players) 3. Couldn't find line mates or a center to match his style. There are many reasons for not performing to blame Carbo is wrong. Many players in interviews and the coaching staff have been on record (the latest is Lats) as stating that Carbo LET's the offensive players be creative and pretty much do what they want offensively. The commitment to play is always there but he doesn't want to choke off the offensive players. Ok. I'll concede a bit on the first point, but the rest are speculation. Especially on the third and final point, Sammy was never put on the first line. Hell even Perezhogin got a quick shot there. there is no way we can say we didn't have anyone to match his stlye if we didn't try them together. (there is no way Latendresse is gonna do anything but tow the company line as a rookie either) For the rest, Have you been to a practise lately? they are given "freedom offensively" as long as they do as they are told and do not leave themselves out of position for a counter attack. Not much freedom afterall huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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