Brian Mulroney attacks a dead man

[Pierre the Great]

really does this guy ever admit his fault in something? seriously.

attacking a person who is no longer alive is the lowest of the lows. If you have a beef you tell it to them when they're alive.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[smon]

Mulroney is really nothing more than a very bitter old man.

It appears he blames Trudeau for just about everything that went wrong in his political career.

[Pierre the Great]

Yeah, super bitter indeed. But gosh you don't trash the departed that makes you look like a weasel. If you didn't have the balls to come out and do this when he was alive then that's it, don't talk about it now.

I wonder who he blames for the death of the PC party? Didn't he blame Campbell for it in his 'tapes'? Something like she was messing around with her russian boyfriend or something. What a loser.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I am a fan of Mulroney but I'm confused about this. What is he hoping to accomplish? Heck, we all know about the two being rivals. Maybe he is angry at Harper and wants him gone. Well, what better way to do it than to paint yourself as an idiot thus drawing more ugly light on Harper. I doubt it though. It seems to me that Mulroney is scrambling to overcome the tapes from the Newman book. I find this totally strange because the general public has a bad memory. Who cares about what Newman wrote about now all this time later? What does Brian do? He unearths it all over again.

Totally confused. Maybe it's as simple as making sure the headlines are, "Mulroney a goof" versus "Airbus". Heck, if Canadians hate him, what difference to his popularity is this going to cause? Maybe he's thinking bad publicity is better than no publicity at all thus increasing his book profits

Edited September 7, 2007 by Athlétique.Canadien

[Mont Royale]

I am a fan of Mulroney

There's something you don't hear everyday!

Whatever may be said of Mulroney (and he's earned plenty of justified criticism), nobody can deny that he had political courage during his time at the top. But, I too am taken aback, not by the criticism of Trudeau (it's his memoirs and his viewpoint, after all), but by the evident bitterness of it.

[Pierre the Great]

What I don't get is waiting so long to publish your memoirs, if you're going to attack a dead person do it when the person is alive. I was watching Newsnet and Newsworld and they all showed Mulroney's comments on Trudeau after his funeral and then the excerpts. lol funny.

At least its not as bad as Bush's biography where he says straight out "I'm going to cash in" on his presidency.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Bush's

Truly gone and beyond defending.

Austria?

[Pierre the Great]

hmm? what? Austria. Opa lived there before and during the war drove a truck in the army.

[Trizzak]

Is he criticizing or attacking? I think there is difference. People don't get let off the hook from criticism just because they're dead.

[InsaneHABSfan]

Is he criticizing or attacking? I think there is difference. People don't get let off the hook from criticism just because they're dead.

Yup, but the phoney one had to wait until his enemy died to post boring dribble. A dead man cannot make an arguement and that is what Mulphoney waited for.

Funny how this guy destroyed the PC party. Now the only shadow left is the fake reform/alliance redneck party trying to pass itself off as conservative. What a joke, they are as pathetic as the Liberals.

[zumpano21]

From the arguments posted here, it is evident that most people think Mulroney only criticized Trudeau post-humously. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those two went toe to toe daily while occupying office. To suggest that Mulroney is only doing it now is unfair. Whether he should be "attacking" Trudeau now is another subject all together but I will say this:

1- Mulroney ravaged the PC party while PM while instilling the GST and free trade which were wildly unpopular at the time. But let me ask you where Canada would be now without those two policies. We are currently running on a very hot economy and running a surplus (the only G8 country to do so at the moment). While I hate paying taxes as much as the next guy, free trade and the GST have only been positive for the country.

2- Trudeau, while certainly a charismatic and magnetic character, was far from perfect. He ran up wild deficits, savaged the economy in Western Canada and apparently threatened the stability of Canada (if you believe Mulroney and other premiers from the time). Also, this stuff about refusing to fight in WWII and riding around Quebec wearing a Nazi helmet just seems a little odd.

The canadian media have always served up Trudeau as the perfect canadian. It would certainly seem to not be the case and to hear a different opinion is certainly refreshing and makes Trudeau more believable as a human being.

[Pierre the Great]

The problem with NAFTA zumpano is that nothing you see outside the window in Canada is in fact, Canada's. Read the whole treaty. From the oil, to the trees, to the water. Its not Canada's anymore. Nafta isn't just a trade deal its an attempt at the merging of cultures into one.

GST. GST is an attempt at a two class party country. That's what Mulroney's intent was. Yeah it makes a lot of surpluses now. But that wasn't the whole point of it. The GST is the equivalent to the republicans when they say they're going to ditch the IRS and put in a flat tax much like the GST. What will that accomplish? A class system of the super rich getting by and getting richer and the poor staying the same getting poor and not moving up.

And then for a person in the canadian right. He killed the canadian right forever. Now the canadian right is a powder keg just waiting to explode. They they're together now again but they're only together because one man has to act like a dictator to keep it together. That's Stephen Harper. The instant Harper is gone, the Conservative party will blow up like in '93, you're already seeing mutiny form. The cracking has started already.

Mulroney did that. Nobody else did. Mulroney killed the right of centre view point. If this wasn't the case, (which it is) why would the Green Party go around the country proclaiming themselves as the modern PC Party? Heck, Ms. May has said publicly thousands of times that's why she's running in Central Nova. She uses words like "Peter killed my party" and so on.

I've been saying this for 2 years since I've been on here, you can check in the search. But the Green party is more of a threat to the Conservatives then the NDP. Because the Green party isn't left wing. Its green capitalist centrist with a centre right economic views, and left of centre socially. Basically what the PC party used to be.

The Green Party is going to run on the environment and is going to go after people who killed the PC Party making everyone know they are the modern PC Party.

That's Mulroney's legacy and the fact that he can't accept it is sad. But its not like anyone is listening he left with 8% approval ratings. Bush is nowhere near that. (well outside of republican voters he is)

[zumpano21]

That sounds like a lot of spin PTG.

My post lists OBJECTIVE evidence that Mulroney's major policies are working. The irony is that most Canadians were suspicious of his policies when they were first implemented, myself included, but no one has the wherewithal to stand up and applaud Mulroney for doing the unpopular. Not yet at least. Historians will look back at Mulroney and describe him as having great foresight, and credit him with being instrumental in maintaining a strong economy. Not to mention that he occupied office during a time of sky-high interest rates and the front end of a recession which would test anyone's popularity.

This stuff about purposely dividing the country into rich and poor classes by the use of the GST is laughable at best. Prove your point that Mulroney is part of a nationwide scam, a la Illuminati, to keep single mothers and the poor on their heels.

The Conservative party in Canada has never been happier. They're past the Mulroney grievance stage and maintained one of the longest minority governments going. By contrast, the Liberal party elected a dorky-looking policy wonk that Canadians can't relate to even more than Harper. There is no trouble in the foreseeable future for the Conservatives.

Last time I checked, the Green party had yet to elect anyone to Parliament. Of course, they're going to say that they encompass the old PC values whether it's true or not - they need the votes.....

And might I remind you that although we both don't like american neo-cons, canadian conservatives are not the same animal at all. Not in the least - and they shouldn't be painted with the same brush stroke.

[smon]

NAFTA was obviously Mulroney's legacy and will be remembered in the history books, but it pales in comparison to Trudeau's crowning achievements in the repatriation of the Constitution and more importantly the Charter.

It appears Mulroney's bitterness stems from the fact that Trudeau in his mind "sabotaged" the Meech Lake Accord, which denied Mulroney the historical accolades he wanted as the man who brought Quebec into the Canadian Constitution.

Sure, it may seem petty, but never underrate the extreme value that politicans place on their legacies. They all desire to be remembered.

And because of that, regardless of Trudeau's faults (which he had, no doubting that), the most reasonable observer would have to conclude that Mulroney's vendetta against Trudeau is hardly justified and is hardly something that can be supported.

All in all, Mulroney did a fairly good job. But his lifestyle (and his wife's especially) was extravagant and flashy during what was a weak period in the economy, and this led to a lot of public anger against the man and his policies.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

In spite of all of Mulroney's corrupt acts. The reason I believe he is angry is that he's annoyed that Trudeau is seen as having a halo on his head while Mulroney is seen by Canadians as having 3 inch horns. Mulroney only wants us to realize that he should have 1 centimetre horns and Trudeau should be nothing more than mortal.

Problem is that everytime he tries to get us to understand, it only gets worse. My advice would be to forget it. By the time history sets the record straight he'll have died anyway. What's the good if you're not around to see it, good or bad? Leave it alone.

[Pierre the Great]

The Conservative party in Canada has never been happier. They're past the Mulroney grievance stage and maintained one of the longest minority governments going. By contrast, the Liberal party elected a dorky-looking policy wonk that Canadians can't relate to even more than Harper. There is no trouble in the foreseeable future for the Conservatives.

Last time I checked, the Green party had yet to elect anyone to Parliament. Of course, they're going to say that they encompass the old PC values whether it's true or not - they need the votes.....

And might I remind you that although we both don't like american neo-cons, canadian conservatives are not the same animal at all. Not in the least - and they shouldn't be painted with the same brush stroke.

Never been happier? You've got all Atlantic Canada about to do a mutiny. I don't call that happy times. Plus the closer Harper gets in courting Quebec with pork, the more his base back home in Alberta gets angry that he's not going Reform-Alliance enough and becoming PCish or dare say Liberal.

The conservative party is in a lot of ways similar to Iraq when Saddam was in charge. You've got a bunch of factions due to the implosion in the early 90's and then re-organization. Factions that still don't get along per say. Harper is Saddam. Harper goes the party goes with it and '93 happens again.

Liberals can get away with not getting a charismatic leader because Harper is cold and calculating so there's no need to find a likeable figure. Because Harper is going to take himself out. Nobody else is going to take him down. The Liberals got a policy wonk because that's what Harper is as well.

Dion is a safe choice. Iggy is prone to gaffs and Rae has a checkered pass and Kennedy was too unknown. Who else were they going to pick?

There's different shades of conservatives here. The further east you go the more they become democrats and the further west the more they become republicans. Hence the exploding time bomb that was 1980's Progress Conservative Party. The west looked to Reagan and that movement while the East stayed the same and advanced in a whole different way. Then the split happened with the fall of the eastern conservative and the rise of the western conservatism.

That's why this party isn't going to last. It is and was doomed from the start. Only reason why the Conservative party exists is because of Harper. Then after Harper you'll see the party fracture again. Its inevitable.

Doesn't matter about Greens not having anyone in Parliament. Who would have guessed this time last year that a one person party would be the opposition in the National Assembly in Quebec.

The leaders are honestly scared of an election. BQ sees its grave ahead and the Tories know they can't win and the Liberals aren't making any inroads and the NDP well they just always have done there own thing. Out of all the parties they're the ones with the most to gain from a conservative implosion along with a BQ death (which is coming). Because that means official opposition which the party has coveted since its inception.

[Pierre the Great]

In spite of all of Mulroney's corrupt acts. The reason I believe he is angry is that he's annoyed that Trudeau is seen as having a halo on his head while Mulroney is seen by Canadians as having 3 inch horns. Mulroney only wants us to realize that he should have 1 centimetre horns and Trudeau should be nothing more than mortal.

Problem is that everytime he tries to get us to understand, it only gets worse. My advice would be to forget it. By the time history sets the record straight he'll have died anyway. What's the good if you're not around to see it, good or bad? Leave it alone.

Well here's why I think people like Trudeau more then Mulroney.

Trudeau went against the US showed that you don't have to follow lock and step with them. Mulroney got elected and sang with Reagan and signed Canada's soul way to the Americans.

People liked Trudeau's everyone is equal in provincial terms. No special status for Quebec even though everyone knows it is special and but then you could say the same thing about New Brunswick, Newfoundland, British Columbia and so on. Confederations work when they're is an understanding that we are all in this together. Meech Lake and Charlottetown said Quebec is different and more special. This goes against this view of we are in this together.

Plus there was the suspicion that it wouldn't be enough. That Quebec would want more and more and wouldn't stop with the Accords. I mean what is the m.o. of the PQ again? Even if those accords were passed. The PQ wouldn't stop its goal.

So in that sense it was black mail.

Plus you had the whole I'm going to do something that Trudeau never was able to do. Legacy.

Oh and why people hate the GST and then hate Mulroney. People loath taxes. I don't but people generally do. So everytime they see a bill and it has GST on it they know where it came from. Mulroney.

But honestly, nobody likes him. That's the main reason. Because he just doesn't get it a lot. He's so narrow minded, the public can see right through this.

[zumpano21]

Harper is Saddam.

That's why this party isn't going to last. It is and was doomed from the start. Only reason why the Conservative party exists is because of Harper. Then after Harper you'll see the party fracture again. Its inevitable.

Seems a little heavy handed. And again, a lot of extreme opinion. I'll entertain it though. How long do you give the conservative party before it blows up?

[Bacchus]

As a public figure, he has opened his life to history. It would be pretty hard for any Canadian politician to talk about historical context without touching on PET. Furthermore, it is never criticized when he is spoken about in flattering terms.

BTW, I have no opinion on the content of what Mulrooney said, as I really don't care. I just take exception with people trying to appear enlightened, when all they are doing is saying, "don't bad mouth my favorite politician".

[Pierre the Great]

Seems a little heavy handed. And again, a lot of extreme opinion. I'll entertain it though. How long do you give the conservative party before it blows up?

Open warfare will start when Harper loses the next election most likely and or resigns. Where's the successor? If its anybody it will be from Quebec which will piss of the West and boom its the 80's all over again with Manning and then '93.

Plus its only so long until Harper's tight grip on power and censoring of his own people slips.

I mean where are they going to dip from? The PC provincial parties have left the CPC. How long before the other shoe drops before the old PC party folks realize this isn't the PC party but Reform/Alliance talking. It was a hostile takeover and just now I think the PC voters are realizing this.

It's going to happen. Its going to be like the NDP fighting in the late 90's with NPI eventually winning over the Socialist Caucus. Or the Labour Party fighting of the Militant Tendency. (stupidest name ever, good grief as if you wanted people to lose the perception that you were commies. lol).

Its going to be more Labour-Militant then NPI-Socialist Caucus though. The Labour-Militant was out in the public in the city council meetings in Manchester. (Militant stronghold).

You remove Harper you'll have two sides. The Alliance/Reform and the PC part. They aren't going to get together. PC part has to win or the party will fall apart. (just like Labour almost did when you had mutiny and people created the Social Democratic party)

If both sides can't come to an agreement the party spilts. Labour survived but because they had leadership. Tories don't have that leadership. I don't see them having another Kinnock in their caucus who ultimately saved the party.

[Chips]

Seems a little heavy handed. And again, a lot of extreme opinion. I'll entertain it though. How long do you give the conservative party before it blows up?

IMO its surprising that the conservatives haven't blown up already. God knows there were many chances in the past months.

However, the current perception/image of the other parties and their shaky leadership, Harpers ability to keep all his "troops" in check, and an extremely calm and clear but highly private way of handling the media has seemed to payoff for the Conservatives. Will it last? only time will tell, I cannot time travel to the future.

However, if Harper is able to Lead effectively on the issues of the day. Climate Change, The North, The Economy and most importantly, if he lives up to his word! Then the Canadian public will give him another mandate and its quite possible that mandate may be much stronger than before.

My friends we are headed for some difficult times this fall. And politically speaking it may get rough.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Where is PTG's political thread? I am livid about this veil voting garbage

Why should I vote?

WHY?

Edited September 10, 2007 by Athlétique.Canadien

[Jean]

Where is PTG's political thread? I am livid about this veil voting garbage

Why should I vote?

WHY?

You know you went too far into the politically correctness zone when even the NDP is against

Seriously tough, what the heck was Election Canada thinking???? *shake head* How could they possibly think that was a good idea?

Thats litterally trowing oil on the fire on the whole reasonable accomodation debate. God know we dont need any more.

Thankfully tough Harper has shown strong leadership and is putting E. Canada in it's place.

[Pierre the Great]

You know you went too far into the politically correctness zone when even the NDP is against

Seriously tough, what the heck was Election Canada thinking???? *shake head* How could they possibly think that was a good idea?

Thats litterally trowing oil on the fire on the whole reasonable accomodation debate. God know we dont need any more.

Thankfully tough Harper has shown strong leadership and is putting E. Canada in it's place.

Hey! lol

:lool: