Fanpuck33 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hahaha, this is what I predicted all along! The Yankees decided to bring back Joe Torre and he said no! http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Av4s...p&type=lgns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 good for Joe. They were really screwing with the guy. Now he can go and run another bullpen into the ground </red sox fanboyism> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I figured that would happen, what with the Yankees having their thumbs up their ass over what to decide. Now lets hope A-Rod leaves too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I figured that would happen, what with the Yankees having their thumbs up their ass over what to decide. Now lets hope A-Rod leaves too. I think A-Rod is totally out. The question now is Rivera, Pettitte and Posada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think A-Rod is totally out. The question now is Rivera, Pettitte and Posada. Think we're gonna ditch Lowell and bring in A-Rod? I keep hearing rumblings but I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Does it really matter who the Yankees lose if they have the ability to sign just about everyone on the open market? You'd think losing a star or two might actually help them out (aside for A-Rod, who is probably an exception) though I'm not sure how that works out in baseball where each player plays individually. I'm never going to understand this sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Does it really matter who the Yankees lose if they have the ability to sign just about everyone on the open market? You'd think losing a star or two might actually help them out (aside for A-Rod, who is probably an exception) though I'm not sure how that works out in baseball where each player plays individually. I'm never going to understand this sport. whats on the open market is not always better than what you lose. Losing a "star" and replacing them with a role player is rarely a good thing. Baseball is for the most part a game of 9 guys connected by a uniform. A-Rod is a great ball player. There is nobody on the market who is going to produce as well as he will. Posada is basically the best offensive catcher in the league. He is getting older, but he is still a fantastic bat to have out of that position. Rivera is anchors a pretty mediocre bullpen, even if he has declined, he is still a top 5 closer. Building a bullpen is almost a crap-shoot, having a high quality arm that will perform year in, year out is a fantastic commodity. Pettitte is perhaps the one guy they wouldn't miss that much. Pettitte's peripherals suggest an upcoming decline and the Yanks have a bunch of good arms coming in. BTH, may I commend baseball to you. It has a lot of depth. Think we're gonna ditch Lowell and bring in A-Rod? I keep hearing rumblings but I hope not. I'd do it in a second, but I am not that confident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Really? After the season Lowell just had? Obviously he doesn't have A-Rod's production but he's cheaper and has a better attitude. I'm still not sure I'd like A-Rod on my team, he just doesn't seem to care about the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Really? After the season Lowell just had? Obviously he doesn't have A-Rod's production but he's cheaper and has a better attitude. I'm still not sure I'd like A-Rod on my team, he just doesn't seem to care about the team. Lowell is great, but A-Rod is a cut above. Also, Lowell has to regress - he's getting old. Then again, it's not my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Another question - how can their bullpen be mediocre if they can almost literally get any UFA they want? Why couldn't they beat the Blue Jays to guys like BJ Ryan and AJ Burnett? Also, why does it matter what position your best hitters are coming from? If Posada is the best offensive catcher does that make any more valuable than the 10th best offensive third basemen, assuming they are about equal in talent? I'm talking about your "fantastic bat to have out of that position" comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Another question - how can their bullpen be mediocre if they can almost literally get any UFA they want? Why couldn't they beat the Blue Jays to guys like BJ Ryan and AJ Burnett? Also, why does it matter what position your best hitters are coming from? If Posada is the best offensive catcher does that make any more valuable than the 10th best offensive third basemen, assuming they are about equal in talent? I'm talking about your "fantastic bat to have out of that position" comment. Yankee team is a bunch of high price primadonnas. All want to be the star and all are overrated(when games mean anything). This so called all star team is not as tight as when the Yankees won their last pennant. Rocket Roger sure looked good this year... :puke: Biggest problem with NY is no pitching. Which is why No World Series again next year. But that is OK as most people on the planet hate them as much as Leafs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 But my question is that if they have first pick on just about every player on the UFA market, how can they have any problems at all? You'd think they'd wind up with 9 of the top 20 players in the majors or something ridiculous like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 analogy for BTH. They're the NYR's before the lock out. They throw money at overrated and past the hill players. "The Boss" is taking a back seat now in the franchise giving it to his sons or something. End of the Yankees. They're in the 1980s period where they threw money and lots of it, for not very good players. Winfield ring a bell? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Then you're saying it's because their manager is crap and they're identifying the wrong players as the best of the bunch - ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Another question - how can their bullpen be mediocre if they can almost literally get any UFA they want? Why couldn't they beat the Blue Jays to guys like BJ Ryan and AJ Burnett? Also, why does it matter what position your best hitters are coming from? If Posada is the best offensive catcher does that make any more valuable than the 10th best offensive third basemen, assuming they are about equal in talent? I'm talking about your "fantastic bat to have out of that position" comment. Well, A.J. Burnett doesn't pitch out of the bullpen, so that's another issue. Sure there are Bullpen Aces, but they aren't always available in free agency. They are not always willing to pitch behind another Bullpen Ace. Gagne had to be coaxed to pitch behind Papelbon (and he most certainly will not resign in Boston). Tom Gordon got tired of pitching behind Mariano Rivera, etc... Relief pitchers are by almost by definition worse than starting pitchers (why pitch a guy for an inning of relief when they are better than the guy you have pitching 6 innings of start?). Relief pitchers pitch less than half as many innings as a starter, so their body of work is less predictive than that of a starter. Relief pitchers tend to have shorter effective careers and many are significantly less consistent than starters. As relievers generally make far less money and are less respected than starters, starting pitchers are generally unwilling to be converted into a reliever unless they are on the downside of their careers. Many teams (such as the Red Sox) have spent tons of money to buy a bullpen, only to have their free agents outperformed by rookie up-and-comers. The Yankees did not have a particularly cheap bullpen this season, but ended up only getting effective middle relief from mid-season callup Joba Chamberlain - who is probably good enough that he will soon be converted into a starter. It matters what position your hitter is coming from because at bats are a limited resource - there are only nine spots on offense. With the possible exception of the pitcher (in the American League), all your at-bats must be allocated to position players. If there are a bunch of slugging 1B, you can pick one up relatively cheaply and thus fill one slot. The slugging catcher is a much rarer phenomenon, there are four catchers in all of baseball with an above average bat: (in descending order by OPS) 1) Posada 2) Victor Martinez 3) Russel Martin 4) Jason Varitek Posada is 12th in the league in OPS, Martinez is 34th. By contrast there are 19 above average 1st basemen, 13 above average 3Bs, 13 above average LFs. You get Posada, you have good offense from a lineup spot where most teams have mediocrity. You can probably still find a good bat at 1B or 3B or LF. I don't know how much of that made sense. I'm watching my Sox play for their postseason lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 analogy for BTH. They're the NYR's before the lock out. They throw money at overrated and past the hill players. "The Boss" is taking a back seat now in the franchise giving it to his sons or something. End of the Yankees. They're in the 1980s period where they threw money and lots of it, for not very good players. Winfield ring a bell? lol they've been a hell of a lot better than the Rangers were. They've gone to the playoffs for more than a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 i'm talking spending power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 The slugging catcher is a much rarer phenomenon, there are four catchers in all of baseball with an above average bat: (in descending order by OPS) 1) Posada 2) Victor Martinez 3) Russel Martin 4) Jason Varitek Don't forget Joe Mauer when he's healthy. I'd take him over any of those guys, the best all-around catcher in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Don't forget Joe Mauer when he's healthy. I'd take him over any of those guys, the best all-around catcher in baseball. yeah. I wasn't really going in depth, I just grabbed the OPS rankings off espn. If I were a GM I would double the value of OBP and factor in youth, cost control, etc. Mauer is definitely an A level catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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