Crawford ordered Bertuzzi to attack Moore

[smon]

It's fairly obvious what happened in this scenario - Crawford wanted Bertuzzi to fight Moore, and that's what Bertuzzi was trying to get Moore to do. But in a parallel to the McSorley scenario, the issue is that Bertuzzi crossed the line in trying to get Moore to fight. He was never told to go out there and jump him from behind like some kind of prehistoric mugger.

Frankly, Bertuzzi has not paid the price and he should be sued. There's no question of liability in the lawsuit, it's simply a matter of how much he'll pay Moore.

[Pierre the Great]

yeah i played high school sports/university rowing. state champions in football. And if I wanted to I could walk on to the basketball team and get a spot and the rugby guys are always after me.

I had two football coaches, one was like bobby knight. One november day, it was sleeting and he made us all roll around in the mud and water, we froze. We were getting blown out and he was playing everyone but me. I didn't get to play because I had a scheduled doctors appointment that I told him about 2 weeks in advance. I froze was sick for a week after that. If you didn't do what he said, you would of had stuff thrown at you, insults and you'd be benched. He was vicious, but he had ultimate power, he was also the dean in the school. Playing for him was not fun, it was boot camp. You lose your ability to be a free thinker under that kind of coach.

So yeah I've had abusive coaches and laid back ones.

[johnnyhasbeen]

It's fairly obvious what happened in this scenario - Crawford wanted Bertuzzi to fight Moore, and that's what Bertuzzi was trying to get Moore to do. But in a parallel to the McSorley scenario, the issue is that Bertuzzi crossed the line in trying to get Moore to fight. He was never told to go out there and jump him from behind like some kind of prehistoric mugger.

Frankly, Bertuzzi has not paid the price and he should be sued. There's no question of liability in the lawsuit, it's simply a matter of how much he'll pay Moore.

Moore was not unaware of his presence or intent, it was not that much of an unseen punch, which he turtled from and fell to the ice to draw the penalty. He didn't foresee, and neither did Bertuzzi the awkward way they fell to the ice. Watch the replay, I see that as a very viable defence.

Not a blind sucker punch by the true definition. Very dirty and stupid, but the league lost a premier player in the incident. At the time of the incident, Betuzzi was one of the most dominant in the game. He never regained that. That is a shame for all hockey fans. He was known as being dirty. So was Howe. How about The Rocket? Should have been banned for life! BS

How much does someone have to lose to appease you bleeding hearts. He lost an unpresidented amount of game time. His carrer and personal life were destroyed. He would be earning more per season now than most in the league which I believe was the idea of the blood thirsty lawyers when they got the Moore family to sue. He never regained the competitive edge that made him the dominating player I was envious of Burke landing. He would have made a great habs, before the mistake of a lifetime.

Edited December 22, 2007 by johnnyhasbeen

[sbhatt]

Moore was not unaware of his presence or intent, it was not that much of an unseen punch, which he turtled from and fell to the ice to draw the penalty.

Wow...put the crack pipe down.

[Mils]

Moore was not unaware of his presence or intent, it was not that much of an unseen punch, which he turtled from and fell to the ice to draw the penalty. He didn't foresee, and neither did Bertuzzi the awkward way they fell to the ice. Watch the replay, I see that as a very viable defence.

Not a blind sucker punch by the true definition. Very dirty and stupid, but the league lost a premier player in the incident. At the time of the incident, Betuzzi was one of the most dominant in the game. He never regained that. That is a shame for all hockey fans. He was known as being dirty. So was Howe. How about The Rocket? Should have been banned for life! BS

How much does someone have to lose to appease you bleeding hearts. He lost an unpresidented amount of game time. His carrer and personal life were destroyed. He would be earning more per season now than most in the league which I believe was the idea of the blood thirsty lawyers when they got the Moore family to sue. He never regained the competitive edge that made him the dominating player I was envious of Burke landing. He would have made a great habs, before the mistake of a lifetime.

You're just wrong... that's all. Here's why:

1.) He turtled?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!!! What angle of what hit are you watching? One who is unconscious cannot turtle... just not possible. his face hit the ice first because Bertuzzi had his left hand against the back of Moore's helmet.

2.) It was a blind sucker punch. Bertuzzi was directly behind him, grabbed him by the shirt, and reached around Moore to catch him in the face. Show me any other punch that fits "blind sucker punch" better.

3.) I'm not sure what Bertuzzi's skill has to do with the cleanness of the hit, you put those together like one justifies the other. Nonsense.

4.) Where is the "true definition" of "blind sucker punch" written? I'm looking through every dicitonary and encyclopedia I can find, and there isn't one. This is a classic opinion/fact confusion problem. Gotta' watch that. You and PTG should start a members only club for that sort of thing.

5.) "Very dirty and stupid" = The first (and last) bit of sense in this whole driveling post. Congrats. Did reasonable thought hurt badly?

6.) Bertuzzi's failure to regain his prior domination is not a function of almost killing Steve Moore. Plenty of players fall off the table for a wide variety of reasons. His career was not destroyed. He just sucks now. That's his fault, not anybody else's. Moore's career was destroyed. Read: HE CAN'T PLAY ANYMORE. That is a career that is destroyed. Losing your ability to score goals and turning into a giant, overpayed punk isn't a destroyed career.

7.) Bertuzzi doesn't deserve to lick the mud off of Howe's or Richard's shoes. Not now, not then, not ever. They're worlds apart.

8.) "How much does someone have to lose to appease you bleeding hearts." How much does Steve Moore have to lose before people like you think Bertuzzi deserves real punsihment? Are you physically unable of showing compassion, or does your love affair with the Canucks run so deep that you've lost that basic human emotion? Bertuzzi has lost almost nothing, compared to what Steve Moore did, that's beyond argument. Bertuzzi's suspension was a light slap on the wrist. Losing a couple thousand dollars is a small chunk on Bertuzzi's lifetime earnings. Moore's life came to a screeching halt. get some persepctive.

9.) This whole thing about the lawsuit. Here's the premise you need to be aware of: When someone physically injures another to the point where they are unable to continue with their profession or their normal life, the person who causes the harm can be held responsible for a lot of money. When a player is making $700,000 a year, or however much it was, and he lost 10 usable years, the numbers get big fast. If you don't like how that works, take it up with the American and Canadian judicial systems. Hating Steve Moore and slobbering on Todd Bertuzzi isn't the right vent for that frustration.

10.) "The mistake of a lifetime." I was wrong, there were two flashes of critical thought. Blue ribbon.

Perhaps "Johnnyneverwillbe" would be better. Just a suggestion.

"next time you have a thought... keep it to yourself."

-Ron White

[johnnyhasbeen]

So you are another one of the many monkeys on here that can't respond to a post without personal attacks,. Congrats , you win dink of the day award.

So to illiterate, if a player is on a clear breakaway, the chasing defenceman trips him. He falls and breaks his bneck against the boards he should be sued?

All I want to know is where the line should be drawn. Not one pesron has responded to Ulf against Cam. Why wasn't that taken to court?

To say Bertuzzi would have still been a bum is as much speculation as to say he would be a force. Great point.

I didn't compare him to Howe and Rocket, just said they were dirty. Come on, breaking a stick over another guys head in anger?

Yes i said "Turtled" and I have seen it before and since. Get hit close your eyes and fall.

He did know Bertuzzi was there, check the full replay, he is following him up the ice jammering at him. Was Moore deaf or did he think he was hearing voices? No, he knew he was there, he just didn't want to fight.

Have a good day my friend. Wear the medal well as I am sure someone will out dink you tomorrow.

Who gives you the right to tell me or any others to keep our opinion to ourselves? You aren't a moderator, just another computer owner with an opinion, right or wrong.

Oh, here is a real sucker punch, doesn't have a clue it's coming, no law suit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTM8ocJJkY4

Another

Another, no clue it's coming

PS Ron, you must be a genuine bastard as your parents could not have been married.

2 whites couldn't make such a wrong

Edited December 23, 2007 by johnnyhasbeen

[sbhatt]

whatever....

Edited December 23, 2007 by sbhatt

[Pierre the Great]

Bertuzzi did not almost kill Moore.

That distinction would have to go to the only other gruesome act in sports that this act can relate to.

Kermit Washington's punch on Rudy Tomjanovich which would of killed Tomjanovich had the doctors not caught the extent of the injury in time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Washin....22The_Punch.22

[Mils]

So you are another one of the many monkeys on here that can't respond to a post without personal attacks,. Congrats , you win dink of the day award.

So to illiterate, if a player is on a clear breakaway, the chasing defenceman trips him. He falls and breaks his bneck against the boards he should be sued?

All I want to know is where the line should be drawn. Not one pesron has responded to Ulf against Cam. Why wasn't that taken to court?

To say Bertuzzi would have still been a bum is as much speculation as to say he would be a force. Great point.

I didn't compare him to Howe and Rocket, just said they were dirty. Come on, breaking a stick over another guys head in anger?

Yes i said "Turtled" and I have seen it before and since. Get hit close your eyes and fall.

He did know Bertuzzi was there, check the full replay, he is following him up the ice jammering at him. Was Moore deaf or did he think he was hearing voices? No, he knew he was there, he just didn't want to fight.

Have a good day my friend. Wear the medal well as I am sure someone will out dink you tomorrow.

Who gives you the right to tell me or any others to keep our opinion to ourselves? You aren't a moderator, just another computer owner with an opinion, right or wrong.

Oh, here is a real sucker punch, doesn't have a clue it's coming, no law suit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTM8ocJJkY4

Another

Another, no clue it's coming

PS Ron, you must be a genuine bastard as your parents could not have been married.

2 whites couldn't make such a wrong

I'm glad you're so much more mature than me. You stayed away from those personal attacks like a pro. You give hypocirsy a terrible name.

Learn to use english correctly, then try again.

Is that "2 whites thing" a racist epiphet? I bet they're proud of you at the Klan meeting.

Ron White is a comedian... you've been living under that rock for a while now.

Like I said, Johnny-never-will-be. Never.

Well done, overall though. Good information. I still love you.

[BTH]

Bertuzzi did not almost kill Moore.

That distinction would have to go to the only other gruesome act in sports that this act can relate to.

Kermit Washington's punch on Rudy Tomjanovich which would of killed Tomjanovich had the doctors not caught the extent of the injury in time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Washin....22The_Punch.22

Closest to killing someone would be Simon stomping on someone with his skate. That's way worse than the Bertuzzi hit or anything else we've seen recently.

[johnnyhasbeen]

Closest to killing someone would be Simon stomping on someone with his skate. That's way worse than the Bertuzzi hit or anything else we've seen recently.

Just think if he had severed an artery ot lacerated his achilles, It could have been major.

[Fanpuck33]

Bertuzzi physically assulted Moore, end of story. This wasn't a fight that both guys agreed upon. This wasn't a hit that was inside the rules of the game. This wasn't a case of something bad happening in the confines of a game that might be a crime in the public sector. This was a vicious attack. People can die from serious head trauma. Heck, that girl at the Blue Jackets game got killed just by getting hit in the head with a loose puck. That was hardly as traumatic as what happened to Moore. Neely's life was never threatened. Brashear, Moore, even Beukeboom were all assaulted and had serious trauma to the head, as a result of attacks that had absolutely nothing to do with the game of hockey.

Speaking of the Brashear attack, McSorely got a raw deal compared to these other guys, he pretty much had a lifetime suspension. He was blacklisted after that incident.

Closest to killing someone would be Simon stomping on someone with his skate. That's way worse than the Bertuzzi hit or anything else we've seen recently.

I'm not saying it wasn't dirty, but how exactly was he going to die? Heck, people could survive severed limbs for hundreds of years. I mean, at least as far back as when cannons came into war fare the occasional person was able to survive having a limb knocked off, and that was without modern medicine.

[Fanpuck33]

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/R...al_gam_mostview

Wow, just wow. Another example of the continual decline of personal responsibility in this world. Everything is somebody else's fault.

[smon]

Honestly I'd like to see the people what the people who bashed Moore for suing Bertuzzi think now. I mean for Bertuzzi to just turn around and sue Crawford, wow. Leaves me speechless.

[Pierre the Great]

welcome to the world fanpuck. Taking the high road isn't cool

[CerebusClone]

Speaking of the Brashear attack, McSorely got a raw deal compared to these other guys, he pretty much had a lifetime suspension. He was blacklisted after that incident.

McSorley's hit on Breashear was a lot worse than what Bertuzzi did to Moore, and he fully deserved to never come back. We're not taking about a sucker-punch gone back, but about a guy a skated alongside Brashear for a a few moments, had a lot of tie to think, and brutually attacked Brashear by hitting on the head with his stick...

I don't want to defend Bertuzzi's actions, but sucker-punches happen every once in a while in hockey... unfortunately this one went ugly because Moore lost consciousness upon impact, taking Bertuzzi's massive body down with him; the fall broke Moore's neck, not the actual punch. Otherwise, this incident would have triggered a 4-5 game suspension, and no one would even remember today.

This has nothing to do with McSorley using Brashears's head for a batting practice...

[Fanpuck33]

I see little to no difference between McSorley and Perezhogin. I could not care less that Perezhogin was a knee-jerk reaction, everyone knows you don't swing your stick like that, especially after the McSorley incident.

P.S. What kind of suspension did Matt Johnson get for ending Jeff Beukeboom's career?

[CerebusClone]

I see little to no difference between McSorley and Perezhogin. I could not care less that Perezhogin was a knee-jerk reaction, everyone knows you don't swing your stick like that, especially after the McSorley incident.

P.S. What kind of suspension did Matt Johnson get for ending Jeff Beukeboom's career?

I personnally do see a diffrence for 2 reasons:

1. Perezhogin was merely reacting - and to some extent defending himself - against Garrett Stafford attempt to hit his head out of the ballbark. Perezhogin almost got beheaded by Stafford, and instinctively turned around and swung his stick. Again, I don't want to defend such actions, but this is quite different from the premidated hit by McSorley who had quite a bit of time to think skating behind Brashear.

In some crazy way, Perezhogin was a victim... then an agressor (there's no excuse either for his actions). Actually, I thought it was ridicoulous that Stafford didn't get at least the same suspension as Perezhogin did - after all he was the invistigator and knew what he was doing - just because he missed and Alex didn't.

2. I still don't think Përezhogin intended to swing his stick at Stafford's head. If you look at the video closely, you can see that Perezhogin could not know that Stafford was on his knees, and probably just wanted to hit Stafford on the legs... like players unfortunately often do in such situations (like McCabe on Greg Stewart).

Again, I'm not defending Perezhogin... just saying what McSorley did was a lot worse because he knew what he was doing, and had plenty of time to come to his senses.

[markierung]

what McSorley did was a lot worse because he knew what he was doing, and had plenty of time to come to his senses.

Bertuzzi chased Moore around the ice before punching him. He knew what he was doing.

Edited April 7, 2008 by markierung

[CerebusClone]

Bertuzzi chased Moore around the ice before punching him. He knew what he was doing.

Well, Bertuzzi chased Moore to drop the gloves against him, I don't his mind thought of sucker-punching Moore until the very last moment. Still, I agree with you that he chased him.

Again however, we can't compare a sucker-punch to hit to the head with a stick... even though the consequences were not nearly as bad, the actual hit by McSorley was far worse han Bertuzzi's.