Carbonneau Gala Artis

[JoeLassister]

DAMN !!!

Carbo just received a 2-3 minutes standing ovation in a Television Gala !!!!

Received it from tv comedians, not die hard fans at the Bell Centre.

Hockey in Québec is bigger than anywhere else !!!!

[KoZed]

DAMN !!!

Carbo just received a 2-3 minutes standing ovation in a Television Gala !!!!

Received it from tv comedians, not die hard fans at the Bell Centre.

Hockey in Québec is bigger than anywhere else !!!!

You're surprised?

[JoeLassister]

You're surprised?

Yes. I expected a good reaction, but never a long standing ovation !

[Colin]

DAMN !!!

Carbo just received a 2-3 minutes standing ovation in a Television Gala !!!!

Received it from tv comedians, not die hard fans at the Bell Centre.

Hockey in Québec is bigger than anywhere else !!!!

Ah ha! His routine behind the bench is finally being recognized for the talent it was! Ladeez and Gentleehums, Guy the Carbon Water and his Bench Stylings!

"So, hear the one about the defensive zone plan?" *heh heh*

WOW, that was bizarre. As I wrote that, Carbo became Jon Stewart doing George Bush! *heh heh*

LOL

[KoZed]

Ah ha! His routine behind the bench is finally being recognized for the talent it was! Ladeez and Gentleehums, Guy the Carbon Water and his Bench Stylings!

"So, hear the one about the defensive zone plan?" *heh heh*

WOW, that was bizarre. As I wrote that, Carbo became Jon Stewart doing George Bush! *heh heh*

LOL

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yeah, and if Gainey hadn't fired him, the exact same jerk-offs would be running Carbo out of town on a rail.

Stupidest. Fan. Base. EVER.

[MAK]

Yeah, and if Gainey hadn't fired him, the exact same jerk-offs would be running Carbo out of town on a rail.

Stupidest. Fan. Base. EVER.

dont blame the fans that much. I think most of the blame goes to the media. they're the ones who ran carbonneau out of here and yet the cry that another francophone lost his job.

[KoZed]

Yeah, and if Gainey hadn't fired him, the exact same jerk-offs would be running Carbo out of town on a rail.

Stupidest. Fan. Base. EVER.

dont blame the fans that much. I think most of the blame goes to the media. they're the ones who ran carbonneau out of here and yet the cry that another francophone lost his job.

Did you guys think before you posted that, or are you just repeating the same old broken record?

Fans and medias loved Carbo. They always supported him.

That one rests solely on the shoulders of the players and Gainey, period.

[ForumGhost]

Fans and medias loved Carbo. They always supported him.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Edited April 27, 2009 by ForumGhost

[alexstream]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

he's right dude.

you guys should listen more to "in province" board members. you'd learn a lot.

you could also listen to the habs ramble coming from the National post or the Toronto sun... but then, why pretend to be a habs fan?

The Gazette is "ok", but has a biased p.o.v.

if you wanna know what the majority of the fans and media think you have to go : lapresse, rds, ckac, le journal de montreal.

if you don't do that, you are not entitled to laugh at Kozed.

I often disagree with him... but I do with as much knowledge or more knowledge has him... not by reading the the reashed info coming out of TSN.

[ForumGhost]

So you honestly mean to say that no one inside of Quebec was calling for his head in February? Really? Seriously?

edit: fixed

Edited April 27, 2009 by ForumGhost

[alexstream]

Did you guys think before you posted that, or are you just repeating the same old broken record?

Fans and medias loved Carbo. They always supported him.

That one rests solely on the shoulders of the players and Gainey, period.

It will eventually come out, but I'm sure it was eventually down to

Kovalev

or

Carbo

Carbo had Gainey take Kovalev out for a walk. They talked.

Gainey realised they were blaming each other (kov and carbo)

Gainey benched Kov for 2 games.

Those were 2 good games, but the habs lost, no question there, they really lost those games... were lacking a big something.

Then, Kovalev comes back, 3 points game... Habs win...

Kovalev "won" over Carbo... and when the habs started sinking again, Gainey thought he had no choice but to opt for Kovalev in order to just make it to playoff (He HAD to, because, it will eventually come out too, but George Gillet was looking out to sell for a while and the Habs had to make the playoffs for "franchise evaluation" purposes... )

p.s. I have no source. I just know my shit.

p.p.s. don't quote me and you don't have to believe me.

p.p.p.s. if you don't believe me, don't argue with me, just disregard my post.

So you honestly mean to say that no one outside of Quebec was calling for his head in February? Really? Seriously?

yah, the 10 000 habs fans stuck outside of quebec, in some dark places of Canada and the states.

[MAK]

Did you guys think before you posted that, or are you just repeating the same old broken record?

Fans and medias loved Carbo. They always supported him.

That one rests solely on the shoulders of the players and Gainey, period.

as fan I never really agreed on his coaching. I didn't see any improvment over 3 years and I thought he had free passes because he was friends with the gm.

then again I didn't think gainey was any better this year either.

[Chris]

No progress? He took a crappy team fighting for the annual battle for an 8 seed, turned them into a hard working team last year, won the east and second round of the playoffs.

He was 8 games over 500 at his dismissal, the BG effect netted them 8 startight losses, a first round embarrassing exit. They were 4 games under for the BG.

I'm not even o big suporter of GC, his numbers were good.

[ForumGhost]

yah, the 10 000 habs fans stuck outside of quebec, in some dark places of Canada and the states.

Oops, meant to say inside.

[alexstream]

Oops, meant to say inside.

yes some, but really that was a minority... fans were not dupe.

Carbo wasn't sucking, the team was... just look at the results under BG... not a lot changed, same lousy defensive zone play.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Carbo had one spectacular season, marred by a playoff series in which he was just schooled by Julien. He had a disastrous 2006-07 and a completely pathetic second half of 2008-09. I fail to see the proof of any towering brilliance. The Kovalev thing was just the final sign of a coach who had lost his way. And even if none of this were true, when a coach loses a room, he loses a room. No amount of whining about the players can change that fact. Carbo would have been fired in ANY OTHER CITY...probably sooner than he was here. Which is not to say he's a terrible coach; my guess is that Montreal provided him with quality on-the-job training and that he will re-emerge better for it.

My point is just that, with Carbo at the helm, we would have done no better and quite possibly worse, since nobody wanted to play for him. Therefore, the same people now cheering Carbo as the unjustly wronged hero would be stringing him up from yardarm. Which makes them stupid idiots in my book.

I'm also getting sick of hearing about Gainey's record as coach. His team was looking WAAAY better than Carbo's before Markov and Schneider got hurt. Doesn't mean they'd have won a game against the Bruins if healthy. But I know what I saw, which was a much more organized and effective team game until injuries decimated the roster.

Regardless of all that, I stand by my first post: if Gainey hadn't fired him, the exact same jerk-offs would be running Carbo out of town on a rail.

Edited April 27, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[ForumGhost]

yes some, but really that was a minority... fans were not dupe.

Carbo wasn't sucking, the team was... just look at the results under BG... not a lot changed, same lousy defensive zone play.

I don't mean to say that I think Carbo was a good or bad coach. Honestly, I'm still undecided. What I mean to say is that the fans were crying for his head in February, and now the same fans are calling BG stupid for doing it and chanting his name. The point is, these fans are idiots who don't know what they want.

Edited April 27, 2009 by ForumGhost

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't mean to say that I think Carbo was a good or bad coach. Honestly, I'm still undecided. What I mean to say is that the fans were crying for his head in February, and now the same fans are calling BG stupid for doing it and chanting his name. The point is, these fans are idiots who don't know what they want.

Bingo! :hlogo: You've said it much more efficiently than I did.

Do the fans know what they want? They sure do. They want whatever it is they don't have. I didn't hear too many people going to the wall for Julien back when he was fired. But NOW they tut-tut over how the Habs could fire such a great coach - like they knew it all along!! People used to rag on Theodore and argue that GARON was the real 'great' goalie in waiting, and gripe that he was being underused by the coach and GM (sound familiar?). Ryder was a dog UNTIL he went elsewhere, now, oh yeah, he's just another folly of Gainey's, another 'one that got away.' Poster after poster around here assailed Ribeiro as a menace, a cancer, that getting rid of him would be 'addition by subtraction.' Now, it's oh no, what WAS Bob thinking? Lyle Odelein was ignored or else criticized by the sages in the French media until he went to Jersey, where he became a key leader on a Cup-calibre team and they were left scratching their heads. In the late 80s and early 90s we had a top team and fan after fan whined that the style of play was 'boring.' Now they would die to have that back. Year after year, we hear fans effusing over this-or-that rookie or this-or-that guy in Hamilton who is supposed to be SOOOO much better than whatever supposed garbage we're putting on the ice.

Now it's Carbo, that beloved coaching genius sabotaged by that incompetent loser Bob Gainey (without whom, by the way, Carbo would not have become half the player he became, and to whose mentorship he owes a great deal of what he's accomplished in hockey). And this is what's being spewed forth by people like Mike Boone, who were calling for Carbo's head only a few days before the firing, not to mention the loony-tunes fans in the 'cheap' seats.

Stupidest. fan. base. ever.

Edited April 27, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[BTH]

And even if none of this were true, when a coach loses a room, he loses a room. No amount of whining about the players can change that fact.

But your argument is based on this and you assume everybody else is going to accept it as fact. How do you know Carbo "lost the room," whatever that means? How do you know the players didn't want to play for him? You don't know, it's just your guess or opinion. Sometimes you run into other guesses and opinions on a message board.

The bi-polar thing is a cheap shot and also just a guess. Unless you remember somebody's username and what he was saying three months ago, it's cheap to just call someone a "stupid idiot" for wanting to have Carbo back. There were plenty of people who were defending Carbo people his firing and plenty who immediately opposed the firing after it happened. I could easily say that you're a blind Gainey supporter that loved Carbo when he was here but then decided he sucked right after Gainey fired him... but it would be just as worthless an argument. Because it's based on nothing.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

But your argument is based on this and you assume everybody else is going to accept it as fact. How do you know Carbo "lost the room," whatever that means? How do you know the players didn't want to play for him? You don't know, it's just your guess or opinion. Sometimes you run into other guesses and opinions on a message board.

The bi-polar thing is a cheap shot and also just a guess. Unless you remember somebody's username and what he was saying three months ago, it's cheap to just call someone a "stupid idiot" for wanting to have Carbo back. There were plenty of people who were defending Carbo people his firing and plenty who immediately opposed the firing after it happened. I could easily say that you're a blind Gainey supporter that loved Carbo when he was here but then decided he sucked right after Gainey fired him... but it would be just as worthless an argument. Because it's based on nothing.

Well, there've been a fair number of hints from veterans that they didn't care too much for Carbo's style, as well as media reports of cadres of players - mostly vets - opposed to him. (Recall Koivu's reaction, 'I guess communication was his weakness,' or words to that effect). That, coupled with the fact that the team game suddenly and radically collapsed, makes the 'lost the room' thing a plausible educated guess. Of course we can never truly *know* what went on, but offhand I'd say there's about as much evidence for the 'lost the room' hypothesis as the 'young-players-partied-too-much' hypothesis. Both are pretty credible.

You raise an interesting question about how to assess a fan base. After all, we don't know who held/holds which opinion, unless of course we're tracking their views on a board like this. While none of us are 100% consistent, some people are indeed more-or-less consistent. I have no beef with that (although of course I might disagree with the opinions that they hold with consistency). On the other hand, if you look at the general tendencies of public opinion, you'd probably come to the conclusion I express above. Before Carbo was fired, the general tendency heard in the media and online and in call-in shows was saying or implying that Carbo is garbage, has no system, plays the wrong players at the wrong times, mixes up his lines too much, etc., etc.. After Carbo was fired, the general tendency immediately lurched towards the 'Carbo is a martyr' view (to the point that, three or four games after Gainey took over, the team's struggles were widely cited as 'proof' that coaching was not the problem - as if you can assess a coach based on three or four games). It's these collective mood swings, where the preponderant opinion says one thing one day, and another thing the next, that are the very incarnation of idiocy.

The Boone example is perfect. Before the firing, he was questioning every decision Carbo made, and with ever-increasing intensity implying he should be fired. The very day of the firing he entitled his post 'WHO SIGNED SAMSONOV?' suddenly hurling himself over to the Carbo-as-martyr-to-Gainey's-folly view. Now maybe Boone is just stupider than your average Habs fan. But I think he is closer to exemplifying the collective neurosis.

The 'stupid idiots' to whom I was referring are not people like yourself, BTH, who supported Carbo all along. There's nothing idiotic in saying Carbo should not have been fired, although I maintain that it was a reasonable move and couldn't have done any real harm given that, whatever we think of Carbo, he was pretty obviously not some coaching genius. What's idiotic is saying he should be one day and then attacking Gainey for doing it. In short, it's the overall knee-jerk, hysterical fan base that drives me batty.

Edited April 27, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Habitforming]

But your argument is based on this and you assume everybody else is going to accept it as fact. How do you know Carbo "lost the room," whatever that means? How do you know the players didn't want to play for him? You don't know, it's just your guess or opinion. Sometimes you run into other guesses and opinions on a message board.

The bi-polar thing is a cheap shot and also just a guess. Unless you remember somebody's username and what he was saying three months ago, it's cheap to just call someone a "stupid idiot" for wanting to have Carbo back. There were plenty of people who were defending Carbo people his firing and plenty who immediately opposed the firing after it happened. I could easily say that you're a blind Gainey supporter that loved Carbo when he was here but then decided he sucked right after Gainey fired him... but it would be just as worthless an argument. Because it's based on nothing.

He didn't lose the room per se.... he lost key players in the room that influence everybody on the team.

Some still like him, while others would have helped him pack.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

He didn't lose the room per se.... he lost key players in the room that influence everybody on the team.

Yeah, but that's what it means to lose the room. I doubt you ever get a situation where 100% of players love or hate a coach.

[Habsy]

he's right dude.

you guys should listen more to "in province" board members. you'd learn a lot.

you could also listen to the habs ramble coming from the National post or the Toronto sun... but then, why pretend to be a habs fan?

The Gazette is "ok", but has a biased p.o.v.

if you wanna know what the majority of the fans and media think you have to go : lapresse, rds, ckac, le journal de montreal.

if you don't do that, you are not entitled to laugh at Kozed.

I often disagree with him... but I do with as much knowledge or more knowledge has him... not by reading the the reashed info coming out of TSN.

Are you trying to tell us that list of francophone media outlets does not have a biased point of view? Some of what I hear on CKAC is disgusting. Le journal is nothing more than fish-wrap, a complete tabloid- style rag. Let's not all get too, you need to be in Quebec to have a clue what's going on, it's 2009, not 1939. And again, this is my home, always has been, always will be.

[KoZed]

Regardless of all that, I stand by my first post: if Gainey hadn't fired him, the exact same jerk-offs would be running Carbo out of town on a rail.

Maybe with any other coach, but not Carbo. He had the respect of the vast majority of medias and fans, probably (definitely) more respect than any player on the roster, and possibly more than Gainey himself.

I know around here it's the hip think to do to dump on the fans and medias, like some sort of cope out. But this time the Habs had the coach the team needed and fans & medias got behind and they foolishly sacrificed him for false up reasons. Fans & medias had it right all along.

But hey, you can go on blaming "The Axis of Evil" of Montreal for all that wasnt working with the team... Way easier than actually trying to analyze the various performances of 25 players over 86 games and the how and why and when things fell apart.

I believe you'd actually find more of those "jerk-offs" on this board than at galas.