Markov calls out Price

[Colin]

for starters, can markov speak english well enough to pull the words together to make this statement?

Markov should never be considered for the C again, this is not how you lead your team through difficult times, target a goalie who faces more shots than anyone in the league and plays behind the leagues worst D, if Markov has an issue with his effort and is a true leader, he should take Price aside and talk to him and try and understand what the issue is, not call the kid on the floor in front of the team.

Lastly, Markov IMHO should shut his yap and focus on being the first guy in the corner on a dump in, while this would be nice and a first for him. He needs to worry about his play, what he's doing in the D zone, he is pathetic, one of the softest Dmen in the NHL but typical from most (Not all) European D-men, let the defender go into the corner than nail him with a rugged STICK check, what a joke, CP sees this from the net and he knows Markov is a wuss. He should do to him what he thought he could do to Cam Jansen (CP would have gotten killed, just like every other habs vs Jansen)

It's not CP fault this team sucks and will continue to suck for years to come until the fire BG and Timmons, two complete morons when it comes to scouting/drafting. I am not defending CP b/c he continues to disappoint but when your entire team sucks, 1 guy alone will not make the difference.

MTL should have traded CP to Vancouver in the offseason for Luongo, why they did not try and make that deal is beyond me, bring'em both home.

1. Markov is generally considered as one of the best defenders in the game. Kovalchuk says he's the hardest defender to play against one-one-one.
2. There are other ways to play defense other than Hulk Smash.
3. Getting to the puck first in a battle in the corner doesn't necessarily mean a puck win, in fact quite often the person who has better position ends up with the puck.
4. If you bothered to watch Markov at all over the last few years you'd see how good he is with hand-eye and how he makes even the best attackers look silly with his positioning.
5. He's still coming off a very tough injury where a tendon was severed, and is probably still feeling pain - and will continue to be uncomfortable until the beginning of next season, most likely.
6. Price for Luongo is an NHL10 trade and doesn't work either in the cap world or the real world, for that matter.
7. I've wasted my time on someone who is completely out of touch and doesn't seem to understand the game.

[nyckdkool]

1. Markov is generally considered as one of the best defenders in the game. Kovalchuk says he's the hardest defender to play against one-one-one.

   That's great, how many shots on goal do the Habs allow a game, pretty sure the # is North of 30/game

2. There are other ways to play defense other than Hulk Smash.

   Please explain how giving up puck possession is the right way to play D, go get em stick checker.

3. Getting to the puck first in a battle in the corner doesn't necessarily mean a puck win, in fact quite often the person who has better position ends up with the puck.

   Getting to the puck and moving it and maintaining puck control is how you play Defence, clearly you have played very little hockey. This D cannot afford turnovers in their own end or to give up puck control, just look at the problems caused in their ownzone, several scoring chances per game, goals and penalties, the habs lead the league in penalties, I'd bet of that their D leads the league amongst D units.

4. If you bothered to watch Markov at all over the last few years you'd see how good he is with hand-eye and how he makes even the best attackers look silly with his positioning.

   Stop apologizing for Markov's Defensive zone play, while he is good positional dman, his biggest weakness is exactly what i pointed out, his unwillingness to drive hard to the corner and take a hit (if necessary) to move the puck and maintain possession.

5. He's still coming off a very tough injury where a tendon was severed, and is probably still feeling pain - and will continue to be uncomfortable until the beginning of next season, most likely.

   This has been his weakness his entire career.

6. Price for Luongo is an NHL10 trade and doesn't work either in the cap world or the real world, for that matter.

   That a moronic statement, how did the Gomez/Higgens deal go down.

7. I've wasted my time on someone who is completely out of touch and doesn't seem to understand the game.

Edited January 28, 2010 by nyckdkool

[JoeLassister]

Wow Nyckdkool !!

If all our players were UFA right now, the 29 other teams would probably go after Andrei Markov first. His combination of offensive skills, positionning skills and all around defensive skills makes him one of the 5 best dman in the league, and this is a world wide known fact. Get off Markov's ass.

And by the way Colin, the "best one-on-one dman to play against quote was made by Alex freaking Ovechkin, not Kovalchuk.

[nyckdkool]

Wow Nyckdkool !!

If all our players were UFA right now, the 29 other teams would probably go after Andrei Markov first. His combination of offensive skills, positionning skills and all around defensive skills makes him one of the 5 best dman in the league, and this is a world wide known fact. Get off Markov's ass.

And by the way Colin, the "best one-on-one dman to play against quote was made by Alex freaking Ovechkin, not Kovalchuk.

You are prolly right, it just drives me nuts to watch him give up position and the puck and then to top it off not bury the guy and then take the puck. Based on the preliminary bs media rpts it comes out like he is ripping CP, who knows the facts but i just read the post form Demears, which changes how it was first reported. CP does need to keep his mouth shut and work hard, now's just not the time to be bitching about each others play, for the most part, the entire team has sucked so no one on that team should be pointing fingers before they first look in the mirror.

[redondo]

You are prolly right, it just drives me nuts to watch him give up position and the puck and then to top it off not bury the guy and then take the puck. Based on the preliminary bs media rpts it comes out like he is ripping CP, who knows the facts but i just read the post form Demears, which changes how it was first reported. CP does need to keep his mouth shut and work hard, now's just not the time to be bitching about each others play, for the most part, the entire team has sucked so no one on that team should be pointing fingers before they first look in the mirror.

Without getting into who was right or who was wrong here, I think people calling each other out is exactly what you need at this point in time. Not pick on a single person consistently, but let people know when they need to work harder (and that's most of the team right now), and don't give anyone a free pass to coast, Markov, Price, anyone. The season is getting short.......and many of us are getting sick of the culture of enabling mediocrity that has permiated this club for a decade now. Enough. Yeah, one should be able to look in the mirror, but if you can't, your teammates should let you know where things stand.

[bar]

I just think a different target should be picked besides the two goaltenders. I mean it's not like them making saves is going to put pucks into the net for habs.

[kenadian]

The TEAM as a WHOLE should be CALLED OUT after those last 2 stinkers!

[jackp]

This can go in two ways. One, it's just an example of something that happens on all professional sports teams - teammates challenging one another to be better and not being afraid to be confrontational to make the point. All leaders do this. John Ferguson even dumped a pitcher of beer over a teammate's head when the guy wasn't 'acting as a team player' in his estimation.

This reminds me of something Charlie Hodge told my dad (they were friends) about Fergy. In the 60's, there was no third man rule with fights. 2 guys jumped Fergy when everybody *but J.C. Tremblay* took a guy. Now Ferguson already disliked J.C. When everything was over, he skated over to J.C. and said, "At least you could've picked up my gloves."

[jackp]

You know a lot of people are jumping all over this team and saying that they should work harder, etc. etc. etc.

Has anyone ever considered that maybe it's just a general lack of talent? Go to any of the forums of a losing team, and you'll find pretty much the same kind of comments. Perhaps the team *is* trying but they're just not good enough.

I think that game in and game out, the work ethic on most teams is probably pretty equal. Some games they work harder than others, but overall the avg is fairly similar. (With the exception of when the coach loses the dressing room - then players probably opt out.)

I think that probably the biggest factor on how well a team does is the talent factor. The 2nd biggest factor would probably be the coach and whatever system he is using. The 3rd biggest factor would probably be luck. (Lose the game by 1 after hitting 5 posts, etc.)

Teams that are blessed with lots of talent and good coaching will win on most days, *even when their work ethic is so-so.* How much luck they would need to win is probably in direct inverse ratio to the amount of talent and coaching they have.

I feel that the Habs have a talent level slightly below average. And I think their coach is mediocre at best. So when their work ethic is average, they would probably lose more than they would win. I think that they win only when their work ethic is exceptional and lady luck rides along with them. The fact that they are at .500 probably means that they do indeed generally work harder than the average, but cannot overcome their lower talent level and mediocre coaching. JMHO

[KoZed]

This can go in two ways. One, it's just an example of something that happens on all professional sports teams - teammates challenging one another to be better and not being afraid to be confrontational to make the point. All leaders do this. John Ferguson even dumped a pitcher of beer over a teammate's head when the guy wasn't 'acting as a team player' in his estimation. I also chalked up the little Lapierre/Cammalleti set-to to the same phenomenon. :puke:

In any group whose survival and success depend on how well they function as a group (sports teams, army, etc.) the pack mentality has to be high. That pack instinct comes with the propensity to dump on the weakest link. Because the weakest link threatens the survival of the whole group. 

That's why you absolutely need teammates challenging one another. That's how you root out and get rid of weakest links and strengthen the group. 

[KoZed]

You know a lot of people are jumping all over this team and saying that they should work harder, etc. etc. etc.

Has anyone ever considered that maybe it's just a general lack of talent? Go to any of the forums of a losing team, and you'll find pretty much the same kind of comments. Perhaps the team *is* trying but they're just not good enough.

I think that game in and game out, the work ethic on most teams is probably pretty equal. Some games they work harder than others, but overall the avg is fairly similar. (With the exception of when the coach loses the dressing room - then players probably opt out.)

I think that probably the biggest factor on how well a team does is the talent factor. The 2nd biggest factor would probably be the coach and whatever system he is using. The 3rd biggest factor would probably be luck. (Lose the game by 1 after hitting 5 posts, etc.)

Teams that are blessed with lots of talent and good coaching will win on most days, *even when their work ethic is so-so.* How much luck they would need to win is probably in direct inverse ratio to the amount of talent and coaching they have.

I feel that the Habs have a talent level slightly below average. And I think their coach is mediocre at best. So when their work ethic is average, they would probably lose more than they would win. I think that they win only when their work ethic is exceptional and lady luck rides along with them. The fact that they are at .500 probably means that they do indeed generally work harder than the average, but cannot overcome their lower talent level and mediocre coaching. JMHO

I think their talent level, individually, is above average. There's very few weak spots. And the guys that have less natural talent and abilities -- Gorges, Darche, Moen, -- work extra hard.

What they lack is collective talent. In a hockey team, the total needs to be greater than the sum of its parts. Remember the early 90's Bruins? They had Bourque, Neely and a collection of grinders. But they were an awesome team because everybody was working together. That's the Habs problem right now. They work very badly collectively. The coaching is the glue that makes the individual cogs fit and work into the collective machinery. It's not happening right now.  

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think their talent level, individually, is above average. There's very few weak spots. And the guys that have less natural talent and abilities -- Gorges, Darche, Moen, -- work extra hard.

What they lack is collective talent. In a hockey team, the total needs to be greater than the sum of its parts. Remember the early 90's Bruins? They had Bourque, Neely and a collection of grinders. But they were an awesome team because everybody was working together. That's the Habs problem right now. They work very badly collectively. The coaching is the glue that makes the individual cogs fit and work into the collective machinery. It's not happening right now.  

My own suspicion is that we're below average in our bottom-6 and marginally so in our bottom-4 defencemen. However, the real issue with this team is consistency. Was anyone having this discussion three games ago, after we'd convincingly mastered New Jersey and demolished the Rangers? No. Every once in a while, this bunch gathers itself together for a mini-run of something like 2-3 games where it does all the little things well, plays with intensity, and clearly separates itself from whoever the opposition is. Then the same team turns around for another 2-3 games and comes out playing like a bunch of drunken zombies.

Could be a coaching issue. You'd think that those good runs of 2-3 games would prove the coach's point, though. I tend to think that it's indeed at least partly a talent issue. If any one of our top-6 takes the night off, the whole team suffers because the bottom-6 tends to lack the talent to step up. If Hammer or Markov have an off-night, our bottom-6 struggles to pick up the slack.

The third possibility is a chemistry issue. Gainey undertook the most radical experiment in team reconstruction in NHL history. Could be that this team just doesn't 'click' on or off the ice. Could also be that it's just taking an unusually long time. I'd imagine a tighter squad next season; it's worth keeping in mind that under the circumstances this was always destined to be a transitional year. It's also worth remembering that the sods who lost those two Florida games are no more the "real" Montreal Canadiens than the guys who beat Jersey and New York.

Edited January 29, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Colin]

We have one upper-tier defender. Hamr has done yoeman's work filling in, but he's on the slippery slope down and is a turnover machine. We have no other good defenders.

[rafikz]

Give the C to Markov

I'm not referring to what he said to Price, but how he faced the medias and smoothed things out.

The Habs captain has to be able to deal with the medias, which Marky has done.

I like Camallerri, but all he has done is challenging his teammates in front of the camera

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

We have one upper-tier defender. Hamr has done yoeman's work filling in, but he's on the slippery slope down and is a turnover machine. We have no other good defenders.

I love Hammer, but you're right. And Spacek so far just hasn't been good enough. Upgrades at the #3-4 slots on D would make a huge difference, not that it's gonna happen

[lazy26]

Give the C to Markov

I'm not referring to what he said to Price, but how he faced the medias and smoothed things out.

The Habs captain has to be able to deal with the medias, which Marky has done.

I like Camallerri, but all he has done is challenging his teammates in front of the camera

Cammalleri tirelessly speaks with the media.

[Chris]

Not to merntion he is the best habs player and hardest worker.

[kenadian]

And Cammy can poke some fun at the media.....

Edited January 29, 2010 by kenadian

[saskhab]

I still don't understand how Hamrlik = good, but Spacek = disappointing. They play on the same pair and produce the same results. If anything, Spacek is doing better because he's better value than Hamr's inflated salary.

Josh Gorges is #5 on James Mirtle's list of top defensive performances by defenceman this year so far. #1 is Lidstrom, #2 is Keith, #3 and #4 are Polak and Jackman in St. Louis:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/globe...article1448148/

Hal Gill is #30, mainly because of his PK prowess. He faces very low quality opposition 5 on 5.

[ehjay]

It's not CP fault this team sucks and will continue to suck for years to come until the fire BG and Timmons, two complete morons when it comes to scouting/drafting. I am not defending CP b/c he continues to disappoint but when your entire team sucks, 1 guy alone will not make the difference.

I will try to keep mum about the rest of your post but fire BG And Timmins?

Were they not the onez that had the foresight to draft your (beloved) CP?

I think you should re-evaluate your stance in putting in a monkey that smokes and types all at the same time in the penthouse of the Phone booth...

but hey that is just my opinion and I really don't want to add any more fuel to your fire.

Be free in your sofa GM'ing ways. But please the evil that is in the front office, IMO, is a lot better then you would believe. I'm not saying perfect but I like the way this team came to be and I think that more tuning is to come. Maybe as you suggest it will be in the front office but I sure hope not. Well unless we go get the BIG Scott... You know the one that likes the bagels from St. Viateurs, what's his last name?

Ohh yeah!! Bowmen

[Colin]

Markov is becoming uber-quotable!

"Reporter: "Do you miss Mike Komisarek?"

Markov: "Is he here in this room? I have no memory of him.""

[bar]

Haha oh god...thats signiture worthy!