2010 Hamilton Offseason Discussion

[dlbalr]

Where there issues with Cinci last year? Seemed to me they were nice and close and you could move a player fairly quickly. Why wasn't Cinci a good fit?

Cincy's former coach (Chuck Weber) is now coach of Rochester (Florida), who the Cyclones are now affiliated with. It's a much better fit for Cincy to be affiliated with the coach who coached that team last year. It's not that there were issues, just that going with Rochester makes for a much better fit.

[saskhab]

So is Cincy now a sole Panthers affiliate? Or are they willing to share? I suppose it would be weird for Hamilton and Rochester to share affiliates, though.

The Habs don't need a full ECHL affiliate, they just need a shared one.

[dlbalr]

So is Cincy now a sole Panthers affiliate? Or are they willing to share? I suppose it would be weird for Hamilton and Rochester to share affiliates, though.

The Habs don't need a full ECHL affiliate, they just need a shared one.

Nashville's still with Cincy as well so the Cyclones are still a split affiliation.

In other news, Grant Stevenson has left Hamilton and signed a 1 year deal in Germany.

[BlueKross]

So is Cincy now a sole Panthers affiliate? Or are they willing to share? I suppose it would be weird for Hamilton and Rochester to share affiliates, though.

The Habs don't need a full ECHL affiliate, they just need a shared one.

No team needs a full ECHL franchise if they have an AHL franchise. They don't have enough spaces left in their 50 man limit. Shared affiliations are more likely to be the preference of the particular Echl team.

[saskhab]

No team needs a full ECHL franchise if they have an AHL franchise. They don't have enough spaces left in their 50 man limit. Shared affiliations are more likely to be the preference of the particular Echl team.

Well, in the Eastern Conference of the ECHL, only the Trenton Devils (New Jersey/Lowell), Wheeling Nailers (Pittsburgh/Wilkes-Barre, team located in West Virginia), and South Carolina Stingrays (Washington/Hershey) currently have only one NHL affiliate. The rest of the ECHL is located west of the Rockies.

The Habs/Bulldogs could affiliate with a CHL team instead of an ECHL team. There are teams in Indiana, Ohio, and Illionois which wouldn't be too far away. Two NHL teams have affiliates in the CHL (Islanders, Stars), both of whom are in the Southern Conference.

Edited August 5, 2010 by saskhab

[Lammy]

Bring back the Long Beach Ice Dogs!!! LOL!

[saskhab]

Andre Benoit signs with Ottawa/Binghamton, 1 year, 2 way deal.

[BlueKross]

Andre Benoit signs with Ottawa/Binghamton, 1 year, 2 way deal.

We just run out of spots. Good luck Andre! What is the official AHL roster count? Do they have the same 23 man roster as in the NHL?

[saskhab]

http://predators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=535885

Hmm....

The Cyclones will function as a developmental affiliate for both Nashville, and its primary developmental affiliate, the Milwaukee Admirals of the American Hockey League. Cincinnati also maintains an affiliation agreement with Montreal and the Canadiens’ AHL affiliate, the Hamilton Bulldogs, and recently signed on an affiliation agreement with the Florida Panthers and their AHL team, the Rochester Americans. Cincinnati plays its home games at the 14,453-seat U.S. Bank Arena, located downtown next to Great American Ballpark.

Did we miss something here, or is this Nashville press release inaccurate?

[BlueKross]

http://predators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=535885

Hmm....

Did we miss something here, or is this Nashville press release inaccurate?

I would think this would put Cinci in a very dicey situation when the winter doldrums hit and all the players got called up. The reason teams started putting players on ECHL teams was to keep a string of goalies active that you could draw on and develop. Three teams doesn't make sense.

[dlbalr]

http://predators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=535885

Hmm....

Did we miss something here, or is this Nashville press release inaccurate?

It's inaccurate, Cincinnati joined up with Florida and dropped the Habs, they didn't keep both. From the Cyclones' site:

The Cyclones and Montreal Canadiens have mutually agreed that it was best not to continue their affiliation.

http://www.cycloneshockey.com/team-news/cy...ation-agreement

Someone in Nashville will have to amend the standard jargon that appears in their press releases.

[BlueKross]

HF Boards has both Urquhart (David) and Bonneau listed as AHL contracts.

According to Montreal's official web site, they have cut five including Champion. Can we surmise that Delmas is on his way to Wheeling? The two defensive prospects are still there. Are one or both heading to Wheeling also?

[dlbalr]

According to Montreal's official web site, they have cut five including Champion. Can we surmise that Delmas is on his way to Wheeling? The two defensive prospects are still there. Are one or both heading to Wheeling also?

Delmas isn't signed yet so there's no guarantee. That said, if he continues to impress in practice, he'll probably sign, though he still can go back to junior (so it's hard to surmise anything yet). Wheeling protected the rights to the goalie who joined the team late last year (Bobby Jarosz) while Brad Thiessen, a PIT prospect, could very well remain there as well. The Pens also need to find a home for OHL'er Patrick Killeen. Long story short, the Pens may be filling both goalie spots this year. If need be, the Bulldogs could always sign a goalie to a PTO if one of Sanford/Mayer get hurt or recalled, or call up one of the Pittsburgh goalies on a loan (which is somewhat common).

As for the defensive prospects, Desnoyers (if signed) I suppose would be a Wheeling candidate but I'd find it highly unlikely that Bisaillon (who I think will eventually sign) would leave playing overseas for an ECHL job. Hamilton is one thing, but if they tried to send him below that, I think he'd bolt. Urquhart/Nash would be my bet for a Wheeling-bound d-man, if they have enough to send.

[BlueKross]

Delmas isn't signed yet so there's no guarantee. That said, if he continues to impress in practice, he'll probably sign, though he still can go back to junior (so it's hard to surmise anything yet). Wheeling protected the rights to the goalie who joined the team late last year (Bobby Jarosz) while Brad Thiessen, a PIT prospect, could very well remain there as well. The Pens also need to find a home for OHL'er Patrick Killeen. Long story short, the Pens may be filling both goalie spots this year. If need be, the Bulldogs could always sign a goalie to a PTO if one of Sanford/Mayer get hurt or recalled, or call up one of the Pittsburgh goalies on a loan (which is somewhat common).

As for the defensive prospects, Desnoyers (if signed) I suppose would be a Wheeling candidate but I'd find it highly unlikely that Bisaillon (who I think will eventually sign) would leave playing overseas for an ECHL job. Hamilton is one thing, but if they tried to send him below that, I think he'd bolt. Urquhart/Nash would be my bet for a Wheeling-bound d-man, if they have enough to send.

I think your right about Bisaillon, especially since he is 23. Desnoyers is a better age for starting in the Echl. He also had good numbers from junior. Nobody has signed yet as far as tryouts, we get that. I think your crazy not being at least five deep in goalies at the start of year. It may not be Delmas, but I believe there will be a Canadien goalie in Wheeling pronto.

[saskhab]

I think your right about Bisaillon, especially since he is 23. Desnoyers is a better age for starting in the Echl. He also had good numbers from junior. Nobody has signed yet as far as tryouts, we get that. I think your crazy not being at least five deep in goalies at the start of year. It may not be Delmas, but I believe there will be a Canadien goalie in Wheeling pronto.

They can call up guys from the Q in an emergency situation, if that's where Delmas goes. I don't think this is a big deal.

Realistically, if Montreal has injuries to their top 3 goalies for a stretch of more than 2 games, they will acquire someone with pro experience either as a free agent, off waivers, or in trade. Worst case scenario will see Mayer up with the Habs backing up one of the top 3 guys for a stretch... no way would they go with Mayer as starter with an ECHL backup. So the benefit of a 5th goalie is well, none.

[dlbalr]

I think your crazy not being at least five deep in goalies at the start of year. It may not be Delmas, but I believe there will be a Canadien goalie in Wheeling pronto.

As saskhab noted, they can always pull Delmas out of junior if injuries/recalls arise - I'd rather him play in the Q than sit and rot behind 2 goalies in Wheeling. The Habs aren't the main affiliate, Pittsburgh can (and given their depth most likely will) supply both goalies there. So there's no immediate necessity unless they can find another ECHL (or as was done with Lacasse years ago, IHL) team to take a 5th goalie on.

Also as I noted earlier, there's the AHL trade/loan/free agent/PTO option as the Bulldogs have utilized before. They picked up Phillipe Sauve in 2005-06 via trade (or loan, I forget which) as well as using Dov Grumet-Morris on a PTO. In early 2009, Mike Minard dressed for a few games on a PTO as well. Heck, there's overage juniors throughout the CHL that'd jump at the opportunity to see AHL time if the Habs came calling. They lured someone away from overseas last season to play for them (2 actually, Grant Stevenson and Ryan Murphy), so there's another possibility. There are plenty of options out there regardless of whether Delmas signs or not.

A 5th goalie is more of a luxury than a necessity. If you do have one though, the key is to find him ice time. Considering who Pittsburgh will have in Wheeling, there won't be much playing time there.

[BlueKross]

As saskhab noted, they can always pull Delmas out of junior if injuries/recalls arise - I'd rather him play in the Q than sit and rot behind 2 goalies in Wheeling. The Habs aren't the main affiliate, Pittsburgh can (and given their depth most likely will) supply both goalies there. So there's no immediate necessity unless they can find another ECHL (or as was done with Lacasse years ago, IHL) team to take a 5th goalie on.

Also as I noted earlier, there's the AHL trade/loan/free agent/PTO option as the Bulldogs have utilized before. They picked up Phillipe Sauve in 2005-06 via trade (or loan, I forget which) as well as using Dov Grumet-Morris on a PTO. In early 2009, Mike Minard dressed for a few games on a PTO as well. Heck, there's overage juniors throughout the CHL that'd jump at the opportunity to see AHL time if the Habs came calling. They lured someone away from overseas last season to play for them (2 actually, Grant Stevenson and Ryan Murphy), so there's another possibility. There are plenty of options out there regardless of whether Delmas signs or not.

A 5th goalie is more of a luxury than a necessity. If you do have one though, the key is to find him ice time. Considering who Pittsburgh will have in Wheeling, there won't be much playing time there.

I would argue that the whole point of having an Echl franchise is developing a goalie to move up the chain. Secondly, you can not always get a goalie from junior. The junior team has to be in a position to lend you that goalie. I expect if they happen to be playing that night you would get their best goalie. Secondly, I doubt very much if the Canadiens would have made a deal with Wheeling if there was no spot for a goalie. I believe that the Bulldogs wish to win, and it makes no sense to put chopped liver into the nets for any game. Can you think of any NHL team, in any year that had an ECHL franchise and didn't send a goalie.

[dlbalr]

I would argue that the whole point of having an Echl franchise is developing a goalie to move up the chain. Secondly, you can not always get a goalie from junior. The junior team has to be in a position to lend you that goalie. I expect if they happen to be playing that night you would get their best goalie. Secondly, I doubt very much if the Canadiens would have made a deal with Wheeling if there was no spot for a goalie. I believe that the Bulldogs wish to win, and it makes no sense to put chopped liver into the nets for any game. Can you think of any NHL team, in any year that had an ECHL franchise and didn't send a goalie.

You can't always get a goalie from junior? Sure you can. If an NHL team wants a player (especially if he's signed), too bad for the junior team. The Habs can't ask to recall Sanford and be told no, we need him in Hamilton more. Junior teams, like minor league teams, have their lower level affiliates for situations like these. Also, it's not chopped liver that'd be going in net if a player signed a PTO, the regular backup would get the start so in an absolute emergency, yeah, teams can pull a guy out of nowhere and dress him as a backup. Vancouver (I think, it was one of the Canadian Western teams) did that a few years back, got a college goalie to sign a 1 day emergency deal and dress as backup.

In terms of not making a deal with Wheeling without a goalie? The Habs have a lot of forwards under contract either to them (or Hamilton), possibly as many as 16. There is a roster maximum in the AHL, those spare guys had to go somewhere. Why not to an already established team where they can play in a good environment? I read somewhere Wheeling's developed the most NHL'ers out of any ECHL franchise. They can certainly benefit whether they send a goalie down or not.

As for teams with ECHL affiliates that didn't have a goalie assigned by their NHL team last season alone:

Atlanta (Gwinnett) - both goalies were on minor league deals

Carolina (Florida) - no goalies used were under contract to Carolina (they had some good career minor leaguers though)

Colorado (Charlotte) - New York R. supplied all the NHL-signed goaltenders

Columbus (Gwinnett) - ditto Atlanta

Edmonton (Stockton) - goalies were on minor league only deals

Los Angeles (Ontario) - both goalies were on minor league contracts

New Jersey (Trenton) - all goalies on minor league deals

San Jose (Kalamazoo) - the only SJ prospect who played for them (Sexsmith) was on an ATO, not signed

St. Louis (Alaska) - all goalies on minor league contracts

Toronto (Reading) - of the 8 goalies used, none were contracted to Toronto

Vancouver (Victoria) - no Vancouver goalies, a couple of Calgary ones though despite no affiliation with the Flames

And that's just last year (took long enough to research 1 year of data ); I've told you, it's not a big problem to deal with. It's nice to have a 5th goalie playing but it's not an absolute must. A lot of teams go with 4 signed goalies and have a guy they can get on loan from another minor league team or sign to a PTO in the event of injury/recall. I'm sure the Habs can work within that framework if they have to, there's plenty of minor league veterans out there who'd jump at the opportunity to even dress for a few AHL games.

[Lammy]

Also as I noted earlier, there's the AHL trade/loan/free agent/PTO option as the Bulldogs have utilized before. They picked up Phillipe Sauve in 2005-06 via trade (or loan, I forget which)

Sauve was a loan. It was 2006-07, the Calder Cup Championship season.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Lammy

[dlbalr]

Sauve was a loan. It was 2006-07, the Calder Cup Championship season.

You're right, I typed the year in wrong. Gruvet-Morris was that year as well.

[BlueKross]

I STAND CORRECTED

Edited September 22, 2010 by BlueKross

[BlueKross]

Bulldogs sign D Neil Petruic to a minor league deal. An 8th round pick of Ottawa in 2001, he split last season between the ECHL and AHL - in the 'A', he played for Binghamton/Manitoba.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=56817

Ugh--- What's that all about? Maybe its one of those, friends of the third cousin to the assistant equipment manager? Perhaps the defensive try-outs in camp are not cutting the mustard or are better served going somewhere else after camp?

[dlbalr]

Ugh--- What's that all about? Maybe its one of those, friends of the third cousin to the assistant equipment manager? Perhaps the defensive try-outs in camp are not cutting the mustard or are better served going somewhere else after camp?

My first guess would suggest that Bisaillon/Desnoyers aren't impressing too much. The Bulldogs were pegged to only have 7 d-men and that was assuming all waiver eligible players (Carle, Picard, Henry) actually clear. They needed some depth, Petruic's a player who can play in Wheeling as a regular or be a 6/7 guy in Hamilton. If one or both of the other tryout D sign, he gets bumped down to a Wheeling guy who's an injury callup. Why they didn't bring Anderson back for this role surprises me though.

[saskhab]

I think Picard will make the Habs out of camp. Could see them carrying 8 D when all are healthy, as well. They did that a number of years back... the year they had Niinimaa. And I guess they kind of did that last year... maybe they'll use Picard as a swing man.

[saskhab]

Sorry, that sounded like a Habs post moreso than a Bulldogs one, but the idea might be that Hamilton is planning for their season to be without Picard. In that light, adding a body like Petruic to the mix makes more sense. Carle, Henry, Klubertanz, Weber, St. Denis, Urquhart, Nash, Petruic. Petruic could still heading to the ECHL to start, but he'd be in Hamilton training camp to get to know the team and maybe beat someone out of a spot in Hamilton, or step in temporarily when someone is out with a camp injury.