The Situation at Centre

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The other cup winner who wasn't elite at centre was anaheim. McDonald was merely good, and Getzlaf was a young kid, and while he was good, he was not the player he is today when they won.

another good example.Common theme. Elite D and goalie for jersey, anaheim, boston.

We've got the goalie. If Subban rounds into form and Markov stays healthy, do we have the D? Hmmm.

Anyway, Jersey is hands-down the model for our club. Look to them!

[Colin]

We've got the goalie. If Subban rounds into form and Markov stays healthy, do we have the D? Hmmm.

Anyway, Jersey is hands-down the model for our club. Look to them!

Think of a top four potentially consisting of Markov and Emelin, with Subban and Gorges. If Emelin continues improving as he's shown, and if Subban becomes elite (the latter I think has a very good shot of happening, the former doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility), then I would say we're very solid from the blue line back. With Patches and Cole, we have two effective power forwards. Plex is a top centreman, just perhaps not elite. We also have Cammi and Gionta and Kostitsyn and Eller, who are all pieces to a very good puzzle. Is this Jersey-esque? In many ways, yes.

[Willey101]

Sami Pahlsson, though, was very good. He was an shutdown force in the tradition of Carbonneau and Gainey at that point in his career.

Of course, Anaheim also had both Niedermeyer and Progner to help out in that shutdown capacity. lol

To be honest, I think Plekanec is every bit as good, and probably better than Ryan Kesler. Kesler and the Sedin lines do make each other more effective, so I can see how it can be concluded the Habs are missing a centre. I don't know if that kind of player is available, but we'll see come the trade deadline. I do like the team that we have, I don't know if we can go four rounds for the Cup but I think we're closer than the consensus opinion to doing that. I think we're even with the Bostons and Phillys of the conference but a step behind the Pens and Caps, and conversely a step behind the Blackhawks, Sharks, Canucks and Red Wings out west. That puts us at around 7-12 in the entire NHL, a step below the elite. It's easier for us to make the Finals than similar western teams because there are fewer elite teams in the East, so at least we have that going for us.

Didn't Pahlsson play Rw that playoff. I believe the line was Moen-Niedermeyer-Pahlsson. They alog with possessed like play from JS Giguere were the main reasons why Anaheim hoisted the cup.

[Commandant]

Think of a top four potentially consisting of Markov and Emelin, with Subban and Gorges.  If Emelin continues improving as he's shown, and if Subban becomes elite (the latter I think has a very good shot of happening, the former doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility), then I would say we're very solid from the blue line back.  With Patches and Cole, we have two effective power forwards.  Plex is a top centreman, just perhaps not elite.  We also have Cammi and Gionta and Kostitsyn and Eller, who are all pieces to a very good puzzle.  Is this Jersey-esque?  In many ways, yes.

I really think that a lot of the pieces are in place or very close to being in place.  The one missing is the #2 centre (or 1b centre) who is at the same level as pleks or very close to it.  The Bobby Holik - Jason Arnott (2000) combination... or the Joe Nieuwendyk - Scott Gomez combo (2003).  We need the second guy because right now Gomez isn't producing at that level, DD has his issues, and Eller is not quite ready.

One guy who never comes up in these discussions who i think would be a great compliment to Pleks is Stephen Weiss. I think if there is a way to get Talon to move him, you try and do it. He's not big, but I think he'd fit in nicely on this team.

[Commandant]

Didn't Pahlsson play Rw that playoff.  I believe the line was Moen-Niedermeyer-Pahlsson.  They alog with possessed like play from JS Giguere were  the main reasons why Anaheim hoisted the cup.

No doubt that line was extremely effective in those playoffs, and a major reason why Anaheim won. But I dont' think anyone looked at them and said they provided an elite centre. Merely a very good checking line. Thats my point, I don't think you need a Crosby or Toews, or other such guy, but I think you need to still be solid there, and our #2 spot isn't solid enough.

[alexstream]

oh man, I thought it was a thread about Jersey Shore... "The Situation"...

[bbp]

oh man, I thought it was a thread about Jersey Shore... "The Situation"...

wow hahaha

[BCHabnut]

He said it himself at some point recently. Aside from that, I do remember him being listed as a C/LW early on, and I also know he took some face-offs then went to the wing on occasion. Good call on the line changes, mind you. The Eller part you missed, but didn't the other two happen last night? ;-)

Honestly, I think, looking back on the Habs in the last decade or so, the question of strength down the middle has always been in the centre of any controversy in Montreal, right or wrong. This thread is probably one of the most relevant threads for Habs fans. The debate brought up here is so intrinsic to Hab World (perhaps in parallel to HabsWorld) that I wonder why a thread like this isn't stickied.

Here's a question: if Gomez starts producing at the equivalent of a 50 point clip for the balance of the season, is that satisfactory?

Another question: with Plex, Gomer, DD, Eller, and Noke down the pipe, are we strong enough to compete *in the playoffs* against the elite teams in the league and therefore legitimately challenge for the Cup? Or do we necessarily have to be considered outsiders because we lack a true #1, or the size required to both neutralize the bigger pivots in the league and win battles down low both in attacking and defending zones?

A third: If you were the GM, how far would you go to acquire a bigger centre who would be that "go-to" guy? Or would you instead be more interested in a complimentarily consistent guy to Plex?

Finally: Do the Canadiens have it in them to make the big trade to make this kind of thing happen, or is this all irrelevant?

These are the questions that go through my head each night when I'm watching. (And many when I'm not watching.) I feel this team is a pretender to the Cup, that Cinderelli's shoe has to be a perfect fit, and that Carey must not wear pink in order for us to snatch a Cup. The team composition is such that, barring catastrophe, we'll be a contender all year, should probably make the playoffs, but then should probably find the going more difficult against the Bruins of the world. And it's not that we can't beat these guys in a 7 game war, but I'm not sure we have the necessary parts to swing the odds in our favour. Moreover, I don't think we'll get there unless we strengthen ourselves down the middle.

If Gomez can put up 50 to 60 points this year, I would be happy. It would make trading him a lot easier.

I do believe that on paper, this team is close to contending. I actually don't think that a true #1 C ia as critical in the playoffs. Gameplans are so tight and stars are covered so well, that depth is more important. I preffer a 2a, 2b, 2c approach to the top 9. I still believe that this team is missing a few things. I want a Madden, Paullson, Carbo, style shut down centre. I don't think Noke is that guy. I also want a Nilan, Neal, Ott, Shawn Thornton guy. It sounds funny and I am happy to be saying that our biggest needs after a healthy defense are on the fourth line.

(edit) too funny. I replied to the question and read further. It appears that others agree we are in need of the shutdown centre. Every cup team has one. I actually think we have him. Eller could become that guy. I said it before. This kid reminds me so much of Jordon Stall. I don't know why.

[Willey101]

I admit that I was among those defending Gomez at the beginning of the season. he needs time I thought, he'll rebound I was saying....but no more. Yes he won 80% of his faceoffs last night but Eller has become a complete non-factor now that Gomez is back. It is time to face a very hard decision right now. Send Gomez to Hamilton? See if a team will take him if we including a top prospect and take a bad contract in return?

Not sure the answer but Gomez has to go.

Oh yeah and I agree. For me I would rather see the team try to land a tougher 4th liner then a D-man. With Moen and White on the 4th line I would love to see a defensive minded tough 4th line center like a Gaustad. Not sure who is out there though.

[Colin]

I'm reviving this thread because, personnel-wise, I think this is the number one element preventing Montreal from joining the league's elite. To wit:

Goalie - Price - a legit #1 and one of the top net minders in the league. 'Nuff said.

Defence - Markov, Subban, Gorges - Assuming Markov gets his health back and finds his All-Star calibre game, I contend that this troika is one of the best in the league. Add in the impressively improving Emelin game and a PK reliable Gill, and you have a very solid back line. They can move the puck, and they can shut down effectively.

Wingers - Cammalleri, Gionta, Pacioretti, Cole, Kostitsyn - that's just five, but that's already the top two lines and an extra. I think that compares very favourably with almost every team in the league. Yes, Cammi and Gio are having their struggles, but I submit that they're at least as much a result of rotating pivots as they are personal struggles.

Centre - Plekanec - Sure, when Gomez has been healthy, his game was looking up a little. Yes, Desh can put together a run of a few games before getting marginalized for twice as long, Maybe Eller is our long-term answer. But I believe THIS to be the one area lacking on the Habs, and if I'm the GM, the place where I take my risks in order to put the team over the top.

If we had one more elite-ish centre with a biggish body who could log serious minutes and put up significant point totals, I think Montreal would be a sharp squad. Right now it's fairly easy to counter the attack - focus your best defensive line wherever Plex is and then you only need to marginalize Desh and you've given yourself a very good chance to succeed. For a very long time, THIS has been Montreal's biggest problem. They didn't back up Koivu with a supporting centre, and now they're leaving Plex. How soon before he hits a wall - or gets injured playing the significant minutes he's logging?

We have some depth and talent which we should be dangling to attract that quality centre. While you never want to send away promising kids, you need to take that chance sometimes in order to get a legit shot for a Cup. I think the organization is gun shy because of the failed Gomez experiment, but at least you have to give Gainey credit for attempting to address an ongoing weakness by bringing in someone who could potentially fill the bill.

I would not at all be averse to dangling a Tinordi or a Beaulieu if it meant the ability to package Gomez and pull in an elite guy. I have zero problem with moving Desh if any offer comes along, and would gladly add if someone dangled a star centre and asked about his availability.

Montreal has more top-six talent than at any time since the late 90's. Plex, Cole, Patch, Gio, Cammi, Kosty. Each of these guys has proven themselves, IMO, legitimate attacking threats which the opposition needs to be aware of on every presence. Gomez, when healthy, can be added to that as well. But in order for other teams to take us completely seriously, we need that #1 (or 1b) guy who's going to give us two very strong lines. Then you can look at Eller/Kosty/? as a superb supporting third line and enjoy Moen/White/Noke as a very solid 4th.

I think Montreal is an underrated club (for various reasons I'm not going to get into here) talent-wise, but suffers endlessly because of this lack of true top-end depth down the middle. If you only have one standout pivot, it's too easy to shut down. Have two, and suddenly the game opens up a lot more and you get the opposition second guessing who to cover.

If Montreal has real aspirations to the Cup, this weakness must absolutely be addressed. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, the Habs are merely pretenders to the Cup.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree with you, Colin. The only qualifier I'd add is that, if we're going to trade excellent prospects for that Big Stud C, we'd better make sure the C is relatively young. Staal, Ryan, Statstny - these guys fit the bill.

[patience is a virtue]

I agree. There are more immediate issues right now (PP, D) but this is the long-term structural challenge for PG.

Which 1b-2a C might the Habs pick up in a trade or at the deadline? I'd be willing to ship either Beaulieu or Tanordi, a high draft pick (1st or 2nd), and DD + Weber in a package deal.

[Colin]

I agree. There are more immediate issues right now (PP, D) but this is the long-term structural challenge for PG.

Which 1b-2a C might the Habs pick up in a trade or at the deadline? I'd be willing to ship either Beaulieu or Tanordi, a high draft pick (1st or 2nd), and DD + Weber in a package deal.

Any one of the three Cuke mentioned (Stastny, Ryan, Staal) would fit the bill. I'd be very happy to ship these guys out for ANY top-end centre who's under 26 and has a contract that takes him into his UFA period for a few years. Gomez and Beaulieu for any of the three (would not be enough) would tickle my fancy. If you have to add a draft pick, here you go. You don't need picks if you have the core of the team on the ice for the next few years. It's okay to expend picks - even first rounders - if you can replace them with assets who are regularly producing. Send the Canes Beaulieu and a 1st for Staal.

[bbp]

I think Montreal is an underrated club (for various reasons I'm not going to get into here) talent-wise, but suffers endlessly because of this lack of true top-end depth down the middle. If you only have one standout pivot, it's too easy to shut down. Have two, and suddenly the game opens up a lot more and you get the opposition second guessing who to cover.

If Montreal has real aspirations to the Cup, this weakness must absolutely be addressed. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, the Habs are merely pretenders to the Cup.

I headed into the season with the belief that Montreal was going to surprise a lot of people this season. We have had a bunch of injuries and inconsistent play, but I am still a firm believer that come playoff time we no question will have a spot and that we may make another run like that of a few seasons ago... only this time it will because we are reaching our potential not exceeding it.

The organization I think is banking on Gomez or Eller stepping up at some point in the season. Because of that I would be surprised if we actually made a move. Of course they could believe that because some of our veterans are getting older this year may be a good year for a run... which would be interesting...

[Colin]

The organization I think is banking on Gomez or Eller stepping up at some point in the season. Because of that I would be surprised if we actually made a move. Of course they could believe that because some of our veterans are getting older this year may be a good year for a run... which would be interesting...

Sounds good. Gomez I can see stepping up. He's already showed this season that he still has it, even if we only saw it for a game or two. But Eller? How will we ever know? It requires him being played to see if he can step up.