Bigger, Better, and Stronger

[Guest Stogey24]

High value nearing the end of his career...

[huzer]

The Habs forward depth was decimated in the playoffs. I'm not worried about forward size. Patches is big, but then the first thing people say is "oh, he's a perimeter player, he won't go to the net". There's always an excuse to make the Habs "small" up front. Bourque, Prust, Galchenyuk, Eller, Patches, Moen (although his toughness his disappeared), Ryder (he's over 6'...so he's "big"), Armstrong, White. 9 of the 12 forwards 6" or over. Of Gionta, Gallagher, Desharnais, I'd peg DD as the least physical by far. So if 6' is everyone's arbitrary cutoff for being "big", they aren't doing too bad up front. If Montreal added, say Chris Neil and Matt Cooke, and dumped White and Armstrong, guess what...the team would be smaller.

I'm more concerned with team toughness on D. The inability to keep people from in front of the net when it matters. Gorges is good defensively, mostly as a shot blocker, not solid physically. Diaz, nothing physical about his game. Markov is not a crease clearing dman. Nor is Subban, really. That's not his role. That leaves Emelin to soldier on by himself as the physical presence on the blueline.

As with all stats, so much emphasis is improperly and blindly placed on raw numbers.

[patience is a virtue]

The link to the Hickey article isn't working for me. But Hickey has never been a particularly astute analyst. He's more the type to parrot conventional wisdom than think deeply and interestingly about the game....

Meanwhile, people sure love to trade away top performers. Gallagher and Markov - let's move 'em!! Nobody in principle is untouchable, but I wouldn't be in a raving hurry to trade away keys to the team's success. Indeed, I can't think of too many examples of teams dealing away players like that. If a guy's "value is high" that might just be because he's a terrific player, see.

Here's the Hickey article and the final paragraph from it:

"With six picks in the first three rounds of next month’s draft, it might be a good idea for the Canadiens to shelve the philosophy of picking the best player available in favour of picking the best big player available."

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Canadiens+have+bigger/8401880/story.html#ixzz2U8m64LHu

What a moroon! We should adopt the failed Laff's draft strat now? Bugs Bunny is a better strategist than Hickey. Timmins is the best part of the Habs management structure. Trading up for Tinordi; getting Subban, Gallagher, and Hudon all after the first round; going after Diaz in Europe; etc, etc. The guy is a genius who follows no fixed formula, except maximizing the Habs opportunities.

I agree with the CC that almost no player is untouchable (Subban and Galchenyuk being perhaps the only exceptions right now). Nor am I suggesting throwing away Gallagher in my posts in this thread:

http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?showtopic=24143&page=6

I am suggesting using his high present value as part of a deal including Gorges and picks to try to get a proven top-end, big (yes, I do value size), tough, two-way dman in his prime, e.g.s Hedman, Franson, Alex Edler, John Carlson, Jack Johnson. This would turn Gallagher, at best our 5th best forward, into a new #2 dman. Why now? Why not wait and let him and others like Tinordi and Beaulieu have developed? Because Markov, the best PP quarterback in hockey, in particular, and others like Pleks, Bourque, and Gio are still producing like top line players, but that window will be closed in a few years.

It's not just about rebuilding from the draft, it's about recognizing when you have the right mix of vets and young guns to really make it happen. For the Habs, that is likely now and for the next few years, imo. Which is why we need to sacrifice some of our unexpectedly awesome forward depth (i.e. no one would have predicted the Bourque would bounce-back so strongly and that the Gallies would both emerge so quickly this season) to round out the defense sooner rather than later, as Huzer argues:

I'm more concerned with team toughness on D. The inability to keep people from in front of the net when it matters. Gorges is good defensively, mostly as a shot blocker, not solid physically. Diaz, nothing physical about his game. Markov is not a crease clearing dman. Nor is Subban, really. That's not his role. That leaves Emelin to soldier on by himself as the physical presence on the blueline.

Of course, Timmins traded up for Tinordi just for this reason. But defensemen take longer to develop than forwards.

[Neech]

I am suggesting using his high present value as part of a deal including Gorges and picks to try to get a proven top-end, big (yes, I do value size), tough, two-way dman in his prime, e.g.s Hedman, Franson, Alex Edler, John Carlson, Jack Johnson. This would turn Gallagher, at best our 5th best forward, into a new #2 dman. Why now? Why not wait and let him and others like Tinordi and Beaulieu have developed? Because Markov, the best PP quarterback in hockey, in particular, and others like Pleks, Bourque, and Gio are still producing like top line players, but that window will be closed in a few years.

It's not just about rebuilding from the draft, it's about recognizing when you have the right mix of vets and young guns to really make it happen. For the Habs, that is likely now and for the next few years, imo. Which is why we need to sacrifice some of our unexpectedly awesome forward depth (i.e. no one would have predicted the Bourque would bounce-back so strongly and that the Gallies would both emerge so quickly this season) to round out the defense sooner rather than later, as Huzer argues:

I don't see that group of vets you mentioned as being a core that could get you a cup and whose closing window we need to take advantage of, not like San Jose with Thornton and Marleau or Detroit with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I have a lot higher hopes for our upcoming core of young players - Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher, Patches, Subban - and I think management's goal will be more about surrounding them with the right parts.

[Commandant]

Timmins has drafted 2 players in the first two rounds who are under 6 foot since he's been here. (kristo and Collberg, both 5'11)

4 players in this first three rounds. (Mac Bennett, and Yannick Weber, both 5'11)

This idea that we draft small isn't really true.

Guillaime and Lapierre don't work out in Montreal, David Fisher, Kyle Chipchura, Ben Maxwell go el bust-o, and McDonagh gets traded. If those picks worked out we wouldn't have a size issue.

The size issue comes from Free Agents (Bouillion, Desharnais, Gionta), and from late round picks (Gallagher).

[JGC21]

The size issue comes from Free Agents (Bouillion, Desharnais, Gionta), and from late round picks (Gallagher).

That's true. And if MB wants to build a better, more competitive playoff team - he's going to have to stop signing guys who are "small". We heard the reasons why Bouillon and Desharnais got extensions, because they had decent regular seasons. I suspect both won't be back in 2014 (along with Gionta).