simonus Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I think I've basically seen this topic about 5-10 times since I've joined HW. There is some merit to the idea that a low playoff spot doesnt really help a team, but I tend to disagree: 1) Not much difference in draft position between a 7-8 team and a 9-10 team. 2) Good experience for younger players, hope for future improvement.. 3) Shows players on other teams that you are on a team that is on the cusp of getting truly competitive. 4) Extra revenues to make it easier for owner to justify increased spending and FAs in the upcoming year. 5) Who knows what could happen, how far we can go? Beliveau1 was definitely not talking about purposeful tanking or rooting agianst the habs... but I respectfully disagree with his assesment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 I think I've basically seen this topic about 5-10 times since I've joined HW. There is some merit to the idea that a low playoff spot doesnt really help a team, but I tend to disagree: 1) Not much difference in draft position between a 7-8 team and a 9-10 team. There is if you are Bob Gainey and have his staff as compared to what John Ferguson seems to have in Toronto - this is really dependant on the quality of your scouting system. 2) Good experience for younger players, hope for future improvement.. Not all playoff experience necessarily automatically means it will have good results 3) Shows players on other teams that you are on a team that is on the cusp of getting truly competitive. I think the Leafs track record have made this theory somewhat questionable 4) Extra revenues to make it easier for owner to justify increased spending and FAs in the upcoming year. the cap still dictates your limits and is your owner willing to or not - the lockout tends to make one wonder about the motives of some NHL owners 5) Who knows what could happen, how far we can go? that's the honeypot - who knows what will happen. Hot goaltending is often the key to the first round. Injuries and depth then become the major factors in the latter rounds. Even the worst team going into the playoffs can suddenly go big in a hurry Beliveau1 was definitely not talking about purposeful tanking or rooting agianst the habs... but I respectfully disagree with his assesment. thanks for seeing that and your contrary opinion is definitely respected. I was just interested in seeing if the majority of Habs fans preferred a date in the playoffs to a higher draft choice, and in doing so suggesting some possible benefits if it didn't happen. A traitor to the mighty CH I am definetly not..... I think the passion we all have for the Habs and the game itself are evident in the fact everyone here wants a playoff date if at all possible. I love that and that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. I respect a solid and rationale debate, and the opinions expressed by those whether they agree with me or not. It's when people insist on making personal attacks on anothers opinion because they disagree that I have a problem. There is no need for that aspect when someone makes an observation..... I'm nowhere near as smart as Gainey is as far as hockey goes, but my character is somewhat more like Gainey's, so I tend to take the quiet analytical route to a dilemma. Weigh it and measure it before you react. I try to look at the benefits one can gain when things don't work out as hoped for. If the Habs fail to make the cut I'll be critical of this teams performance, but not I won't be crushed nor will I be a messenger of impending doom. Right now I'm cheering for a playoff birth and there is no question that the fan in me will be disappointed if there is no shot at a cup victory. GO HABS GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I see what Beliveay1 is trying to get at as well but its flawed. Moving up a few spots in the draft means nothing compared to gaining playoff experience, which will be critical for guys like Perezhogin, Higgins, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Ryder and Komisarek. Playoff experiences are priceless in terms of player advancement. Especially considering this is suppose to be a weak draft anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 I see what Beliveay1 is trying to get at as well but its flawed. Moving up a few spots in the draft means nothing compared to gaining playoff experience, which will be critical for guys like Perezhogin, Higgins, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Ryder and Komisarek. Playoff experiences are priceless in terms of player advancement. Especially considering this is suppose to be a weak draft anyways. All arguements have both flaws and strengths if conducted rationally as opposed to strictly emotionally..... As I said I'm still rooting for a date in the playoffs, and I'll leave it to Gainey to build this team into a real contender...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 All arguements have both flaws and strengths if conducted rationally as opposed to strictly emotionally..... As I said I'm still rooting for a date in the playoffs, and I'll leave it to Gainey to build this team into a real contender...... I'm not even really sure what your argument is anymore?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 It would be interesting to see what the historic differences are between a 15-16th draft choice and 17th-18th (e.g. what percentage make the NHL, impact of those who make it). Given the unpredictable nature of talent evaluation and progression, my guess is that it's not a big difference. Anyway, it seems nobody is seeing a silver lining to missing the playoffs, so you've got your answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 It would be interesting to see what the historic differences are between a 15-16th draft choice and 17th-18th (e.g. what percentage make the NHL, impact of those who make it). Given the unpredictable nature of talent evaluation and progression, my guess is that it's not a big difference. Anyway, it seems nobody is seeing a silver lining to missing the playoffs, so you've got your answer! Especially when the difference is only a few draft places between 15 and 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) I'm not even really sure what your argument is anymore?? Kaos - not really an argument...... I should have put 'opinions' in that comment instead of saying argument. It was just something I wanted to gauge the reaction of the fans to. I wasn't out to prove any specific point or to say mine was right? We've been bashing this team a lot here and I was interested in seeing if people preferred the playoffs over a higher draft pick. Just a little thought provoking post on something that piqued my curiosity regardless of if some thought it was ludicrous or if they had agreed. I think the passion here makes this site more unique and better than the LeafNation site! Edited March 24, 2006 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Montreal's gonna beat Ottawa in the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABBER-oooooKNOWS Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Didn't want to start yet another pointless thread. Maby swing this conversation another way. GO BOSTON GO!!!! If you guys are into it this could be our Jersey vs Bruins Thread. Wish the Bruins luck here.............also, we are all going to be Laff fans on sunday...... The way Atlanta's been playing, I think our chance for a play-off spot will be to catch Jersey........... Go Bears Go!!!!!!!!!! Just for tonight!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Montreal's gonna beat Ottawa in the first round. Everyone in the house, before you go criticizing smon for saying we can beat the Sens, make no mistake. I AGREE! :hlogo: Ottawa won't win the cup. You heard it here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Everyone in the house, before you go criticizing smon for saying we can beat the Sens, make no mistake. I AGREE! :hlogo: Ottawa won't win the cup. You heard it here! Earlier in the season, I would have (and did) scoffed at the notion that we could beat the Sens in the playoffs. The Sens seem much more beatable lately, so anything can happen. Goaltending will be key (when isn't it?). Still, it's much easier to agree with 'Ottawa won't win the cup' than 'Montreal will beat Ottawa in the first round' though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I got a good feeling. Boston-esque series win (the yr when the Bruins won the President's Trophy i think) with Carbonneau once again behind the bench is definitely possible. A come from behind win sorta kills later round hopes, but it's fun to play spoiler at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch_Habs_Fan Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 2001 we didnt have a shot, and became 8th But when the playoffs started we defeated the Bruins big time and wiith some more luck we defeated Carolina and went all to the final! Everything can happen, thats the fun part of the playoffs. And i think our team will play better than, and not during the season. We got the players for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 2001 we didnt have a shot, and became 8th But when the playoffs started we defeated the Bruins big time and wiith some more luck we defeated Carolina and went all to the final! Everything can happen, thats the fun part of the playoffs. And i think our team will play better than, and not during the season. We got the players for it Or a little less Therien.. I agree, anything can happen in the playoffs, and I'm sure our rookies would be better for the experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Roll the Bones I love it. 93 was no fluke. It was Roy with a dash of timely overtime scoring. Yeah! #15 Paul DiPietro! Funny, he singlehandedly beat the Canadian Olympic team in Turin! Talk about the ultimate clutch Habs player (or would that be Claude Lemieux?) on the thread topic -- I'm all for looking for a silver lining if we don't make the playoffs but I agree with the "roll the bones" way of thinking. Playoff experience is also valuable for a team. Finally the difference between a 15th and a 20th spot is not something I'd get too excited about. We can always trade up if there is a particular player we want, like we did to get Latendresse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 You can only move up three spots in the draft if you win it, and depending on where they ultimately would finish if they didn't make the playoffs, they'd have a remote shot at a top ten pick, because they'd be in the bottom half of the lottery teams. The lottery throws the whole thing off. Do you really think that if there had been a season in 04-05, that Montreal would have played badly enough to get the top five pick they eventually received in the lottery? I think they would have been a better team than they are now, and probably been a potential 6th seed in the East. Leaving the money completely out of the argument, I would always prefer to make the playoffs. As long as you play a tough series, whether you get swept in four or pull out a seven-game upset, it's always gonna benefit your players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 1. I think you are gravely underestimating what this team is capable of. I know you said that you never meant for the team to take a dive, but suggesting that we will most likely lose in the first round is a very defeatist attitude. 2. P.S. - If we make it in and Toronto doesn't, that is almost as good as a cup anyway. #1 is 100% correct, but #2 is not even close The team needs experience and the playoffs is the best place to get it. Besides, there is still a reasonable chance that the Habs could finish 7th not 8th. What we need is a nice long winning streak that should begin with sweeping the miserable Laughs right out of the playoff picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Yep, have to agree with PMAC, the playoffs would be the best thing to happen to the youngsters on this team, Ryder (although he has played already), Higgins, Plekanec, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn (probably won't play), KOmisarek (same as Ryder). Its the best pressure you can put these guys under. And you just never know what might happen in a 7 games series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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