kaos Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 you guys are aware that their will not be that many Top Quality UFA this summer and that second round choices although not that bad will probably be fought for at ridiculous prices... should we go after the tops or go for more realistic 3 round UFA... I totally agree. You know how the GM's get. They'll never learn. You watch, Redden and Chara will probably get $6.5 Million or more each. Jovanovski will probably get $5.5 to $6 Million. McCabe will probably get something like $5 Million from Toronto, so somebody else, Mara will probably get over $4 million. And the other lesser defencman will probably all get over $3 Million. Cause those damn GM's just can't help themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Chara for 6 Mil? Selanne for 4.5M? Shanahan for 7M? We shouldn't spend that much on Selanne. I really wanted Gainey to sign him last summer since he was going to be very cheap (I didn't think he would go as cheap as 1M though), and would get to be reunited with Koivu, but he's too much of a risk at 4.5M. Yes, he's having a great season, but he also had terrible seasons not so long ago, and is an aging veteran that relies on speed for his production.... the terms "aging" and "speed" don't usually go too well together. The goal is to buy low, and sell high. Get players that will can potentially get you a great ROI for a low cost (like Selanne at 1M) or a mor expensive, but safe thing (like Redden, Arnott, Briere, ... next summer). Especially with the good youngsters coming up, we cannot get stuck in hefty multi-year contracts for players past (or about to be past) their prime. In today's game with the salary cap and the faster pace, most older veterans should only play a supporting role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) Must add to this post that it comes to.... if we do have any raw talent within our ranks that can fullfill the roles that we could be hoping to patch with UFA or we dont and can't risk to find out and we should get them at any cost! The guy that is closest to filling-in the role of 2nd line center is Plekanec. I like him, and I would feel better with him than Ribeiro, but I'd rather keep him on the third line. There is also a very slight possibility that Chipchura could impress everyone in Hamilton this year by playing great hockey, and show that he can put up good offensive numbers if he has good wingers (which he never had with Prince Albert). If that were to happen, and if he had a great camp next fall, then maybe Gainey would consider him, but I really doubt it. A good idea could be to trade with the Oilers for M-A Pouliot. They already have depth at the center position on their current roster, and they also have prospects Shremp and Cogliano for the near future. I think this guy could become a good 2nd line center in the NHL, and he's familiar with the Montreal organization playing for the Bulldogs. In return, just as an example, we could for a winger prospect like Perezhogin and a good depth defenseman in Dandeneault (if we sign another defenseman over the summer). Edited March 31, 2006 by CerebusClone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohabsgo252006 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 shanahan is not going to make 7 M. more like 3.5 probably. Chara will be around 7M. Selanne maybe 3.5 I think the steals in this UFA market will be, the top flight "second" tier Dmen. The Kubina, Markov, Kuba mold, there is a whole bunch of them. Remember the market will be flooded with the highest number of UFA's ever so the prices will likely be lower than expected for the second tier group. While I like Selanne and Shanahan, I think developing the youth is more important. If we can get a complimentary player rather than someone who will take a spot from Kostytsin I'd be happier. A 1 / 2nd line center is most important. Ribeiro will not be back and is not a part of the future of this team, thus there is our main weakenss in the both the short and long term. BG will address it via trade or free agency and Arnott while not young is certainly an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Lung Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 D. Markov, Kuba, Kubina? No thanks. Spend the money and get the big guy. Chara. We've got enough young, inexpensive talent to be able to afford a real player. A guy who plays 25 minutes, scores, hits, and most of all... intimidates. Montreal needs a game-breaker, not a bunch of average guys. If there aren't any offensive game-breakers on the market, get the best defenseman in the game. Big Zdeno! With Plekanec, Higgins, Perezhogin, and Komisarek having full years under their belt next year, they'll be as good or better than most you'd be able to sign... and more importantly, reasonably priced. Arnott has been playing for 11 years, he's an old 31 year old... how soon til he becomes Trevor Linden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Chara isn't the best defenseman in the game. Just next summer, both Lidstrom and Redden would be available, at least in theory because I'm sure their respective team will do everything to get them back, and they are both better. Even Jovanovski might be better. Chara is good, and I'd take him anytime, but I don't think he'll be that great if he were to leave the very powerful Sens team. I already mentionned this before, but considering that Chara will be asking for top money (I'm guessing maybe 7M), he could easily become this summer's biggest bust. He'll be good, but never worth 7M. If I were him, I'd tajke the reduced salary the Sens would offer me (4.5M-5M), and make sure I remain on that team. Otherwise, bye-bye the positive 30 +/- ratios, and the 45+ point-seasons. By the way, Markov has just as many points as Chara this season, and is a +10 while Chara is only a +17. Not only did he play far fewer games, but he doesn't have those Spezza, Heatleys, Alfredssons, Havlats (for a little while), and some others in front of him to boost his statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Nice stat Cerebus. But Chara has the intimidation factor that is hard to find in defenseman. He also has a cannon of a shot; I do not believe he will be a bust where ever he winds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 Arnott will most likely re-sign with Dallas anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoHabs2002 Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 By the way, Markov has just as many points as Chara this season, and is a +10 while Chara is only a +17. Not only did he play far fewer games, but he doesn't have those Spezza, Heatleys, Alfredssons, Havlats (for a little while), and some others in front of him to boost his statistics. Which means that if Markov played more games, he could have a lower +/-. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) The CH is practically the lowest scoring team in the East....yet we are a marginal team as opposed of a lower rung one.......thanks to Huet's outstanding peformances. If Gainey has over-estimated the offensive capacity of his roster during the last inter-season.....he now will be able to make up for it by getting it right this time. He will need to bring in the best offensive forward avalaible from the market,....wether it is a winger or a center.......just bring him in. Anyway Zednick seems to be irrecuperable.....a left winger would be necessary and ideal. Its a waste to have Kovalev played with inadequate linemates.......fixe it Bob ! Edited March 31, 2006 by PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) Which means that if Markov played more games, he could have a lower +/-. Lower? You mean higher, like more then +10. If Markov as +10 in say 40 games, that means that if he maintains the same rythm, he would have +20 in 80 games. Twice the games, twice the + Edited March 31, 2006 by Komisarek the Cruncher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted March 31, 2006 Share Posted March 31, 2006 um, no not necessarily. PB - yeah i agree, montreal cant score well and everyone lets the marginal top six guys (im calling out Zednik and Ribs) slide without scoring much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I wouldn't worry about our defence,...our overall defence players stats compare well with the better team like Carolina and Buffalo......despite our forwards being lest talented than theirs..... despite our total scored goals being much less than theirs.........and dont forget that Komi's play seems to be improving each day. The team scoring ability will be most efficiently improved by substituating low performing Zednick by its very opposite......someone with scoring proficiency and a good shot that can control the puck as well. This is not Kostitsyn role for now......Kovalev need a proven offensive NHL players no less. Hopefully Kostsitsyn will be good enought to joined Plek-Perezhogin on the third line and give us the scoring depht needed to rise above our marginal status in this league. ONE GOOD signing by Gainey to replace Zednick on the second line and we are in buziness....we will rise above our present day status and be one of the good teams out there.....a single hight quality offensive forward....I dont care about its price, its size or its nationality.......the Bell is full every night....come-on Bob get this thing going for God's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Nice stat Cerebus. But Chara has the intimidation factor that is hard to find in defenseman. He also has a cannon of a shot; I do not believe he will be a bust where ever he winds up. Again, I would take Chara anytime on my team for the right amount of money. When I say he's a potential bust, it's relative to the large salary he will be demanding. Wade Redden is the real deal in Ottawa, and he can make a huge investment worthwhile. I don't think Chara would put up the same kind of numbers if he played for a mid-level team like Montreal, for instance, and I don't think he is worth the 6-8 millions he might get from a dumb owner. It's like Bobby Holik: great player, I would take him anytime on my team, but he was never worth the 9 millions New York gave him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 This is not Kostitsyn role for now......Kovalev need a proven offensive NHL players no less. Hopefully Kostsitsyn will be good enought to joined Plek-Perezhogin on the third line and give us the scoring depht needed to rise above our marginal status in this league. With the money we're paying Kovalev, I would hope that he would be able to take a young rookie under his wing, especially a very skilled Russian-born player like Kostsitsyn. Koivu has made many players better over the years (Savage, Zednik, ...), and he's doing it again right now with rookie Chris Higgins. Almost everyone keeps saying how much easier it is to play with Koivu If Kovalev cannot assume more responsabilities, and be a mentor to a fellow Russian, then Gainey has made a huge mistake signing him to an expensive, long-term deal. He's the star player that is supposed to make his linemates better, not the other way around. Others should count on him, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 With the money we're paying Kovalev, I would hope that he would be able to take a young rookie under his wing, especially a very skilled Russian-born player like Kostsitsyn. Koivu has made many players better over the years (Savage, Zednik, ...), and he's doing it again right now with rookie Chris Higgins. Almost everyone keeps saying how much easier it is to play with Koivu If Kovalev cannot assume more responsabilities, and be a mentor to a fellow Russian, then Gainey has made a huge mistake signing him to an expensive, long-term deal. He's the star player that is supposed to make his linemates better, not the other way around. Others should count on him, not the other way around. The UFA Targets topic is a good one. We are an average team fighting for the 8th position,....without Huet the game would already be over. There is alot of room for improvement in front of Huet but there is an obvious limit on how the UFA market could BEST help us about moving our team away from being the goally-dependant team that we have been for too long a while. The newNHL is unforgiven to depthless scoring teams and the fact that we are practically the lowest scoring team in the East become my focus point on which I based my rationnal about what the favorite UFA target should be,.......according to me. Since the power plays are an important element and that the first two lines are usually where the artillery is..........getting those lines bright and shiny will be the first step......and only step....since the rest will, I believe, all fall in place. As it stand, Ribeiro could be seen as a weak element......while Zednick as an unfitted one. If only one player from the UFA would be avalaible to significantly improved on our first two lines I would choose a winger over a center no doubt,....the fact that more quality wingers are present this year over centers makes it more plausible also. Fixing this would best, in my view, improved upon the scoring ability of our team and will, by the same way, give our team a good chance to acheived the scoring depth it so needed.........hightly plausible since I believe our talented prospects will be able to lift-up the the scoring ability of our third line. Kostsitsyn is quite young and althought he didn't burned the AHL book records he still did pretty well while acclimating to the smaller north american rink surface an all.....I would love to see him joined-in Perezhogin and Plekanec. I think if Gainey could do a single move and bring in an Elias type quality forward........Koivu would be a big step closer an acheiving,..... what most likely all the CH's captain has done before him.....a hight lift of the Cup for his team and their fans. By the way, rookys, prospects and players can all learned and evolved favorably from being up-close with the skillfull players around them, games or practices......no need to be actual linemates for that to take place. Most Kovalev's skills seems for me to be the results of an uncommun love of practices.....and as such could well be the most transferable skills a player can ever own.......they watch him, they learn, they apply themselves, they get better,...Russians and all. with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 THis team definitley needs 2 of the following 3 things. A first line Center. A first line Left Winger. A top 3 defensman. Now can or will any of these things be address doing the offseason, specifically free agency? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 THis team definitley needs 2 of the following 3 things. A first line Center. A first line Left Winger. A top 3 defensman. Now can or will any of these things be address doing the offseason, specifically free agency? I doubt it. More then anything else, a new center to replace Ribs. The D is fine and we have plenty of wingers to fill our needs (Kovalev, Ryder, Higgins, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Latendresse). That's 6 good wingers or potential good wingers. We can easily find 4 in that group, especially that Kovalev, Ryder and Higgins are proven wingers. Also, they would just improve with a new top center like Richards or someone of his caliber. Young guy - Richards - Kovalev (great 1st line) Higgins - Koivu -Ryder (great 2nd line) We could compete with any other clubs with these 2 top lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoHabs2002 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 More then anything else, a new center to replace Ribs. The D is fine and we have plenty of wingers to fill our needs (Kovalev, Ryder, Higgins, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Latendresse). That's 6 good wingers or potential good wingers. We can easily find 4 in that group, especially that Kovalev, Ryder and Higgins are proven wingers. Also, they would just improve with a new top center like Richards or someone of his caliber. Young guy - Richards - Kovalev (great 1st line) Higgins - Koivu -Ryder (great 2nd line) We could compete with any other clubs with these 2 top lines. I personally believe while a top line centre will be ideal, if we can just get a center who can score 25 goals easily, we'll be fine pairing him with Kovelov. Phoenix rumoured to offer Comrie to the Habs at the Deadline. Yes, he's small, tiny, but he plays big, he's agile and he can score 30 goals a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 I personally believe while a top line centre will be ideal, if we can just get a center who can score 25 goals easily, we'll be fine pairing him with Kovelov. Phoenix rumoured to offer Comrie to the Habs at the Deadline. Yes, he's small, tiny, but he plays big, he's agile and he can score 30 goals a year. Why do you think Comrie was traded by Edmonton and that there are rumours of Phoenix wanting to trade him? He as a big reputation of being a slacker, so why replace one slacker (Ribs) by another one? Agreed I prefer Comrie over Ribs, but I don't like neither. Besides, a top center would make us a top NHL team, not a average 2nd center. We have plenty of cash, why limit our selves to an average center? Especially that its our #1 area to improve. It doesn't have to be Richards, although he's my #1 choice. Keep the team as it is and add a top center and we are set. Yes we could improve other areas, but it's not a necessity like replacing Ribs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Why do you think Comrie was traded by Edmonton and that there are rumours of Phoenix wanting to trade him? He as a big reputation of being a slacker, so why replace one slacker (Ribs) by another one? Agreed I prefer Comrie over Ribs, but I don't like neither. Besides, a top center would make us a top NHL team, not a average 2nd center. We have plenty of cash, why limit our selves to an average center? Especially that its our #1 area to improve. It doesn't have to be Richards, although he's my #1 choice. Keep the team as it is and add a top center and we are set. Yes we could improve other areas, but it's not a necessity like replacing Ribs. But what is it going to take, talent wise and money wise to get him here? Its probably not worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 But what is it going to take, talent wise and money wise to get him here? Its probably not worth it Not worth being a top NHL team? Not worth adding a Conn Smythe winner who's 25 years old? Look at all top NHL teams and they all have a star, a top guy to go to. Without one, you can't be a top team. Look at Buffalo, good team but not a top team. It is getting more intense at this time of the season and they are having difficulties. The team is a star center short of being in the top 5 teams. Look at how Staal completely modified the Hurricanes. He makes everyone else better. The Hurricanes were similar to us before is explosion. Take Staal out and they're as good as we are. Add Richards and we're as good as they are. Like I said, it doesn't have to be Richards, but I think he's the most accessible top center. Maybe Marleau? But I prefer Richards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoHabs2002 Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Not worth being a top NHL team? Not worth adding a Conn Smythe winner who's 25 years old? Look at all top NHL teams and they all have a star, a top guy to go to. Without one, you can't be a top team. Look at Buffalo, good team but not a top team. It is getting more intense at this time of the season and they are having difficulties. The team is a star center short of being in the top 5 teams. Look at how Staal completely modified the Hurricanes. He makes everyone else better. The Hurricanes were similar to us before is explosion. Take Staal out and they're as good as we are. Add Richards and we're as good as they are. Like I said, it doesn't have to be Richards, but I think he's the most accessible top center. Maybe Marleau? But I prefer Richards. There is no one available this summer. The only one close was Jokinen and he signed a contract. If TB doesn't sign Richards to long-term contract, he'll sign a one year deal and that still leaves him unavailable until next summer. I agree Richards would be nice, but not this year. And if we would trade for him or Marleau, it would cost us Ryder and a young prospect, at least. So get a guy like Comrie, who has one year left on his contract, he can deliver stats-wise and see what your options are next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 But what is it going to take, talent wise and money wise to get him here? Its probably not worth it That's it ! The CH is in no position to give away some Markov-Ryder-Higgins combination for the obtention of a top centre like Richard throught trade. Lets face it,.....acquiring the proper UFAs is the only means by which the CH can boost itself out of its marginal condition in a nick of time. I believe the CH to be but a single UFA acquisition away from being able to play successfully the type of game required in this newNHL.......a team strong on the puck, always on the attack, creative and smart. All needed be done to get there is for Gainey to get us a proven offensive forward from the UFA market this summer. While obtaining a player of that caliber in the form of a center could do the trick........it remains more than unlikely since Jokinen is already signed while Arnot and Briere are expected to do the same with their respective team.....so keeping our heads cool.....a winger is most likely,...ideally a left winger. If Gainey can snatch one....it could look like that next year. Higgins, Koivu, Ryder ( Elias ?) Ribeiro, Kovalev Kostsitsyn, Plekanec, Perezhogin Murray, Bonk, Begin I single addition of that ilk would move-up our scoring totals with the better team above us,..... scoring depth would also be at hand with multiple 20 goals players spread throught the lines. Further lateral trade's moves by Gainey could finetune the Ribeiro's or Bonk's positions or else....but insofar as a significant upgrade throught the free agency is concerned......a top notch left winger would be what I would consider not just the most plausible of all the significants moves avalaible,...but the preferable one as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Elias is amazing, if he can avoid (the ladies of the night) in Montreal. His comback helped spark the Devils huge winning streak earlier in the year. I would suspect he would cost top doallar though. If you exclude the 02 03 season he has been a point a game player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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