Fanpuck33 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/26/sno...king/index.html Basically, the New York Times released information about a secret US program involving keeping track of bank records in order to help track terrorists. Though the program was legal and secret, somebody leaked it to the Times, and the Times felt that it was okay to publish the information, despite the fact that Republicans and Democrats alike tried to talk them out of it. As those of you who have had political debates with me in the past, you'll know that I am no fan of the New York Times. Now there is even more fuel on that fire. What the Times did here amounts to treason. Revealing secrets concerning National Security is outrageous. The secret program was 100% legal. The only way this should have been reported was if the program was illegal. This is one of the most irresponsible things a media source can do. Those involved in leaking the information and those involved in publishing it are traitors to National Security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 If you want to go after the times why don't you go after the wall street journal which did the same story. But oh wait, thats a conservative paper. Its okay for the Bush admistration to leak stuff but not the newspapers, eh? That would be hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 What? You mean there was still some people who believed the NSA was *not* checking bank records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 They're checking everything. Even this very sentence. This is the Bush administration, they think they can do anything at all costs. The law and constitution is beneath them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I for one think freedom of speech in the USA has come back strong. Bashing President Bush in the past labeled you a traitor and now a newspaper (I don't like the NY papers) reports on something they found out and it should be censored? What does everybody want to live in a communist country Like China? Governments in both Canada and the USA since 911 have made spying a huge priority. And if you think terrorists did not already know about this then you are kidding yourself. The USA listens in on Cell Phones, Internet connections and is implementing spy planes at the borders. Just a fact of life being pointed out by the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/26/sno...king/index.html Basically, the New York Times released information about a secret US program involving keeping track of bank records in order to help track terrorists. Though the program was legal and secret, somebody leaked it to the Times, and the Times felt that it was okay to publish the information, despite the fact that Republicans and Democrats alike tried to talk them out of it. As those of you who have had political debates with me in the past, you'll know that I am no fan of the New York Times. Now there is even more fuel on that fire. What the Times did here amounts to treason. Revealing secrets concerning National Security is outrageous. The secret program was 100% legal. The only way this should have been reported was if the program was illegal. This is one of the most irresponsible things a media source can do. Those involved in leaking the information and those involved in publishing it are traitors to National Security. You say that what the government is doing is legal and therefore it is okay and should be kept secret. But by the same logic, what these newspapes did was legal and is therefore also okay, isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 If you want to go after the times why don't you go after the wall street journal which did the same story. But oh wait, thats a conservative paper. Its okay for the Bush admistration to leak stuff but not the newspapers, eh? The New York Times is the one focused on in the article. I hadn't heard anything about the Wall Street Journal. And if you had read my entire post, you would have seen that I call for the heads of both the paper AND those responsible for the leak. They're checking everything. Even this very sentence. This is the Bush administration, they think they can do anything at all costs. The law and constitution is beneath them. Come on, nothing anybody does is private. AIM and YIM can record and watch your private conversations. Google has a program that reads and records your mail so it can place relevant ads. Phone wires get crossed and you can hear what your neighbors are talking about. If the government taking advantage of today's lack of privacy to help keep people safe, then kudos to them. I'd rather have someone read my email than have another 9-11. You say that what the government is doing is legal and therefore it is okay and should be kept secret. But by the same logic, what these newspapes did was legal and is therefore also okay, isn't it. What the newspapers did was not legal, it was treason, which is perhaps the nation's worst crime. They published information about a secret program designed to keep the country safe. They ignored warnings from Republicans and Democrats alike. They should have known it was an important program if BOTH parties did not want the story published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Bashing President Bush in the past labeled you a traitor and now a newspaper (I don't like the NY papers) reports on something they found out and it should be censored? What does everybody want to live in a communist country Like China? The China thing is a bit of hyperbole I hope? Look, I seriously doubt anybody is going to prosecute the times, there is really not much of a case. I don't see how a prosecutor could win. From an administration perspective it is more advantageous to complain about the nytimes than it would be to file an arduous lawsuit it would lose. The difference between US and China (among the thousand)? To get rid of the article the US gov't would have to file an injunctioon against the paper.... which a court wouldn't award. In China, the party would decide they didn't like a story and wouldnt simply tell the paper it wasnt getting printed and maybe send the author to prison just for kicks. If somehow the article is printed anyways the party closes the paper and the editors go to jail too. Not quite the same. InsaneAvsFan, I don't know why you are conflating all the NY papers. NYTimes, NYPost, NY Daily News, and the Village Voice are all equivalent? I read the times every day and find it to be the best american source of daily news. Trust me that liberals can be annoyed by choice of news in the times as well... listen to Air America and see how they often get pissed at the times. I think its one of those areas where pissing off both sides shows you are doing a good job. Now people often get angry at the OP/ED page... but David Brooks and until recently William Safire seem pretty wildly right-wing to me. Krystol is a lib, but almost exclusively deals with human rights in 2nd and 3rd world countries. Friedman is middle of the road and is a huge globalization advocate. Dowd is the classic american left-wing columnist and Krugman is perhaps the pre-eminent left-wing economist in the US. I never really bother to read Hebert, but he seems a little left of center.... perhaps a little leftward biassed, but not the diplomatic core of the shadow gov't. Now frankly I havent really read up on the NSA leak issue, but at first glance I'm not too worked up about it. Frankly I thought it was common knowledge that bank accounts were being tapped. Hadn't the US frozen suspect bank accounts in the past? How do they do that without looking? I have to imagine that Al Qaeda was trying to mask their financial transactions before the times article. I know I recently read a new yorker piece that talked about how Bin Ladin was having seriosu trouble moving his money around.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 The China thing is a bit of hyperbole I hope? InsaneAvsFan, I don't know why you are conflating all the NY papers. NYTimes, NYPost, NY Daily News, and the Village Voice are all equivalent? I read the times every day and find it to be the best american source of daily news. Trust me that liberals can be annoyed by choice of news in the times as well... listen to Air America and see how they often get pissed at the times. I think its one of those areas where pissing off both sides shows you are doing a good job. Now people often get angry at the OP/ED page... but David Brooks and until recently William Safire seem pretty wildly right-wing to me. Krystol is a lib, but almost exclusively deals with human rights in 2nd and 3rd world countries. Friedman is middle of the road and is a huge globalization advocate. Dowd is the classic american left-wing columnist and Krugman is perhaps the pre-eminent left-wing economist in the US. I never really bother to read Hebert, but he seems a little left of center.... perhaps a little leftward biassed, but not the diplomatic core of the shadow gov't. Hi simonus, Yes I am on a fun Habs sports board so the China comment was an exaggeration. I don't like it when Government sticks their noses in peoples business then try to claim national security concerns. I just don't buy it, sorry! I am as conservative as they get however I do relize that everyone has an opinion; and goverment (Every Country) like to use the national security concerns too often. I should of just said the Times as I used to read it too, however your well pointed out response (Very nicely done) is the reason I dont read it any longer. I also do not read the locals being circulated in Toronto either as they have their own agenda's. (Toronto Star, Globe and Mail and National Post) I want balanced reporting without people labelling/bashing each other as Liberal or Conservative. I find local community papers like http://www.aspendailynews.com/ in Colorado are more interesting to me. Also I read many foreign papers which provide a better blend of information for me. I watch CNN and CBC for international news which for the most part report the most important events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Everyone already knew about this bank record program. Its been featured in time articles and newsweek. In fact the Washington Post did a story on it 3 years ago. Terrorists know this stuff they have 5 billion credit cards and when one doesn't go through they use a differnt one. So called for someones head when in fact the story was widely known is crazy. And this whole 'liberal' thing is a joke. It was the Times that pushed for the war and when Clinton was president the paper did not throw softies at him like the conservative outlets in america do at bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 What the newspapers did was not legal, it was treason, which is perhaps the nation's worst crime. They published information about a secret program designed to keep the country safe. They ignored warnings from Republicans and Democrats alike. They should have known it was an important program if BOTH parties did not want the story published. I think you will find that what the papers did was perfectly legal. Just as it was legal when newspapers exposed the fact that the government is keeping track of all phone calls (supposedly not their content) within the US. The first ammendment is one of the butresses of US law and it protects these papers. As you say, treason is considered the worst crime of all in the US. If the papers acted illegally and committted treason, then the people involved would be arrested very quickly. The fact that all the Bush administration has done to them is to publicly condemn them, demonstrates that what they did was legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 What the newspapers did was not legal, it was treason, which is perhaps the nation's worst crime. They published information about a secret program designed to keep the country safe. Like the Plame affair, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 What does everybody want to live in a communist country Like China? Hehehe that made me laugh because I just had a visit from my American friend Steve who lives in Shanghai, and I don't think he would ever want to go back to the US! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Hehehe that made me laugh because I just had a visit from my American friend Steve who lives in Shanghai, and I don't think he would ever want to go back to the US! Probly because he's raking in the dough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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