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zumpano21

Upcoming Canadian Election

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Yep I meant Mr. Stephane Dion, clearly I was not referring to Stephen Harper. I'm embarassed to have to call him my Prime Minister.

I was at the policy annoucement today at the CNE GO station where the Liberals annoucement a committment of 70 billion dollars over the next 10 years to go directly to infrastructure development in Canadian cities. Yet another great and well thought out policy from an intelligent and principled leader.

Sometimes I think politicians just throw out numbers like that and everyone goes Ooooh and Aaaah.

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Sometimes I think politicians just throw out numbers like that and everyone goes Ooooh and Aaaah.

But it's what people --especially Eastern Canada-- like to hear. It's an old tested formula. "We commit to put _____ dollars in the ______ sector over ______ years." You could fill the blanks with anything, it doesnt really matter. It comforts people to hear that the Government will spend money on something.

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Yep I meant Mr. Stephane Dion, clearly I was not referring to Stephen Harper. I'm embarassed to have to call him my Prime Minister.

I was at the policy annoucement today at the CNE GO station where the Liberals annoucement a committment of 70 billion dollars over the next 10 years to go directly to infrastructure development in Canadian cities. Yet another great and well thought out policy from an intelligent and principled leader.

:(

Noah if I didn't believe you were such a good guy I would start a political debate in the Trade forum.

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not that I want to start a political debate or anything. Vote your conscience, vote for the person who best shares your ideals, just vote... that's all that really matters.

For what its worth, I've now met Mr. Dion on multiple occassions and there nothing about him that resembles the "usual" politician. I really do feel that he is a man of integrity and will honour his promises should he get the chance.

Stephen Harper has not come through with that, he has continuously broken promises he has made to Canadians.

-fixed election laws

-income trusts

-senate reform

-forcing MPs who cross the floor to resign and run for re-election

etc.

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from an intelligent and principled leader.

until there, you were credible. :lol:

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I'm of the economical right, but ideological left... :blink:

I'm not one to be really attached to a party or another.

Block has no reason to exist anymore

Liberals tried to fool us

Conservatives have pushed it too far

...

what's left?

NDP...

I'm really starting to believe that they are an option. I mean, I don't know whether I'm gonna vote for them or not... but heck! We are in a so called "social-democratic" country... yet, have no real social-democratic party who's having a real run at it.

Why not give the guy a chance?

If we are to pay taxes, why not put them to a use? :P lol

NPD might = better school and better health system?

less tax cuts, granted, but what do I care about a 100$ tax cut, if I can wait less than 2 weeks to get my arm glued back to my body?

I don't know, I mean, I'm ready to listen to them at least. They are starting to get credible.

They talk about environment, not war. They talk about people, not corporations. They talk about ...

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one

(and no, I'm not under any influence whatsoever... lol )

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I'll do all I can to not see the Tories get their majority, and I do believe it has something to dowith putting 35+ guys there from the Bloc. Going with the Bloc !

Edited by JoeLassister

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I'll do all I can to not see the Tories get their majority, and I do believe it has to do something with putting 35+ guys there from the Bloc. Going with the Bloc !

I don't know what to think of this election but I to would like to avoid a Tory majority. Unfortunatly I live in a Tory strong hold and my candidate will be blown out of the water. I even tried convincing my recently legal to vote younger brother that my candidate is best. I've convinced him to vote I just hope that ballot says NDP on it. I'm not sure what to make out of the Green party this election as they are getting more publicity and every election they do better and better. Anyways this is obviously in the wrong forum so I will stop now.

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And don't even get a Westerner started in on this. :lol:

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And don't even get a Westerner started in on this. :lol:

Rednecks are all pro-conservative... that's why easterners are scared of conservatives... they don't want to be ruled by rednecks :P

;) joking of course.

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You should give it a try....rednecks aren't all bad, just a little crazy. ;)

Actually I've always been very conservative (surprise surprise). I vote CPC or Reform all the time. However, I've become very apathetic to the whole thing. I feel it doesn't really matter one way or the other who is in. The Liberals get in and they have to make some conservative decisions, the conservatives get in and they have to pander to the Liberals. So it ends up that there is really no difference between who is governing. Though this is more likely a western mentality, it doesn't matter what we want out here, Ontario and Quebec dictate what happens in this country.

Sorry I didn't mean to take this to a political discussion. Back to our regularily scheduled trade bashing. :D

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You should give it a try....rednecks aren't all bad, just a little crazy. ;)

Actually I've always been very conservative (surprise surprise). I vote CPC or Reform all the time. However, I've become very apathetic to the whole thing. I feel it doesn't really matter one way or the other who is in. The Liberals get in and they have to make some conservative decisions, the conservatives get in and they have to pander to the Liberals. So it ends up that there is really no difference between who is governing. Though this is more likely a western mentality, it doesn't matter what we want out here, Ontario and Quebec dictate what happens in this country.

Sorry I didn't mean to take this to a political discussion. Back to our regularily scheduled trade bashing. :D

Ontario alone dictates what's going on... Quebec from time to time gets out there and make a big drama out of something, to get more decision power on such and such issue, to justify our higher taxes :P

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Ontario alone dictates what's going on... Quebec from time to time gets out there and make a big drama out of something, to get more decision power on such and such issue, to justify our higher taxes :P

At least we can agree on Ontario dictating all political movement in Canada. ^_^

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How about a synopsis for us anglos?

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Sometimes I think politicians just throw out numbers like that and everyone goes Ooooh and Aaaah.

Agreed, but how much will those promises cost us? It's easy to make promises but hard to put a price tag on it.

Edited by blaze53

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How about a synopsis for us anglos?

no way. That is the funny thing.

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At least we can agree on Ontario dictating all political movement in Canada. ^_^

I think this has typically been the case but it's not right now...

Quebec has always held a lot of power politically...not only have many PM's have been from Quebec but the feds spend a lot of money trying to buy out french voters. Ontario appears to also have lost it's political strength because northern and SW Ontario appear to be splitting further from the GTA and Ottawa regions in terms of how/why they vote.

People out West can complain all they want but they still sound like Ontario's angry step-brother...they dictated the last election and are likely to dictate this election...but they still cry and cry. Admittedly the west needed additional support from other parts of Canada but that's no different then any election, even Ontario alone won't win an election but they've typically voted in enough common strength to dictate which way it will go...same as the west is doing now.

The funny thing is that the Liberals were always big in Ontario and they never give Ontario a dime...in reality Ontario, despite it's manufacturing issues currently, still pays the most into fed coffers with the least return then any other province. If Ontario voters would have supported the Conservatives they might have actually got something more then they would have from the Liberals...hell, even a token gesture would've been more then the Liberals have done.

Also, some people keep droning on about a Conservative majority fear...it doesn't matter folks. A minority Conservative government will not be overturned by any of the parties in the near future so they'll be able to run the government as if it's a majority either way. Politically speaking, it's actually a very smart move by the Conservatives to call this election...whether you agree with it or not.

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polww5.png

It seems the swing electorate are responding directly to the economy and gas prices as far as the Tories fortunes go. Gas prices plus economic fears and they sank in the polls. Then the US bailout powers the economy and they rise. This is a bizarre trend. Do people vote on issues the politicians have no power over? :lol:

http://www.ctv.ca/mini/election2008/polltracker.html

Edited by Athlétique.Canadien

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Considering they only poll 45 ppl per riding in a few select ones, i'm not certain how reliable that info is. Plus some of those ridings that were close last time wont be this one, like the ones in Québec City. The CPC is almost as strong they're than in Calagary now. Info on places like Trois Rivières , Drummondville and Saguenay would be more useful in determining what's going on.

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Sometimes I think politicians just throw out numbers like that and everyone goes Ooooh and Aaaah.

They do, and it pleases almost everyone. However, I don't think that people realize that throwing money at a problem solves absolutely nothing, especially considering that at the first sight of increased funding, employees go on strike so they can get most of it through increased salaries and benefits. Unfortunately, besides perhaps helping in preventing qualified profesionnals from working abroad, richer doctors and nurses don't make the healtch care system any better, richer drivers and mechanics don't make the public transit system more efficient, and richer teachers don't teach our kids any better.

In fact, I'm quite sure we could significantly improve the quality of those sectors/industries for the same amount of money, and even less. Unfortunately, such a plan would not lead to an election because people will vote for the party that promises more money and more services while sacrificing nothing and chaging as little as possible in return. We've seen this at the beginning of the Charest governement when they seemed to have a genuine interest in changing things for the better, but as soon as they started stirring sh*t up where it was clogged, they were brutually attacked by the union leaders and then, of course, by the media and the people. Those unions have worked very hard to have 4 highly overpaid people do the work of a single person, and they don't want to lose that; they've also worked really hard to make sure that lazy, useless, and careless employees can't be fired, no matter how incompetent they are.

And these guys are only a [big] part of the problem, you also have managers abusing the system for years, and they don't want things to change either. These people don't fight public-private partnerships because they're immoral , or will lead to services of lesser quality, they don't want to lose a system that has allowed them to abuse it so much.

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Yeah, there's an interesting take on Dion and Harper in the new MacLeans.

One interesting thought on Harper was that his GST cut was a clever strategic move designed to reduce government funds in a way that would force other parties to have to increase taxes to get their spending platforms pushed through. It was a way to de-centralize power in Ottawa, create a smaller federal government and download services to the provinces.

I find it interesting that McGuinty (Ontario's Liberal Premier) is much more quiet this election. I think it's because he knows that, despite Ontario's transfer imbalance, the Conservatives have increased transfer payments, along with the downloaded services, more then the Federal Liberals did...he's torn between ideology and practicality.

The part on Dion was interesting, putting him in a better light then I anticipated...still, I don't like his carbon tax and Green Shift one bit, nor do I like the lackluster Liberal bench very much either.

I like the direction the Conservatives have gone and are going...would I like to see a better environmental policy? Yes, but I don't think this country needs to hold an all out war on the economy and business to accomplish it's goal. A improved commitment to the right incremental changes and funding to green technology/energy is what's needed currently...the rest is just BS for Liberals and others to centralize the money, and power, in their hands.

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An interesting piece last night on CBC's National Reality Check had Terry Milewski talking about the arts cuts. He pointed out that Harper is correct that there was more funding provided by the Conservatives over the last 2 1/2 years and the cuts applied actually brought the arts funding back down to pre-Conservative spending levels. In short, Harper added 45 million to the budget before he then (now) took it away. So, between 2006 and today the fund is even. That's reality. The opposition is making it sound like he cut 45 million below the 2006 level. Wrong. He added 45 million since 2006 and has reversed it - break even. Actually, the truth is it's 800 K lower now compared with 2006.

This is a classic example of Dion and Co. throwing out a blurb that it has been cut, making it sound like he slashed 45 million from what the Liberal numbers were. I get annoyed when politicians colour issues with obscure nonsense. Like Dion linking deficits and debts to Harper and reminding people of Mulroney.

Absolutely no mention of the 100's of billions that created the debt that went up in smoke when Trudeau applied infrastructure to the oil industry to subsidize. Trudeau and Mulroney were almost equally responsible for the debt but Dion doesn't want you to know that.

Edited by Athlétique.Canadien

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On another note. If you hope that Harper doesn't get a majority, you might also hope that the polls continue to indicate a majority. If the poll shifts out of the Conservatives favour too much maybe people will be less weary of a possible majority and not vote out of fear and not worry so much whereas worry in the average voter will encourage them moreso to stop Harper. Drop in the polls means less desperation.

Could be a catch 22.

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An interesting piece last night on CBC's National Reality Check had Terry Milewski talking about the arts cuts. He pointed out that Harper is correct that there was more funding provided by the Conservatives over the last 2 1/2 years and the cuts applied actually brought the arts funding back down to pre-Conservative spending levels. In short, Harper added 45 million to the budget before he then (now) took it away. So, between 2006 and today the fund is even. That's reality. The opposition is making it sound like he cut 45 million below the 2006 level. Wrong. He added 45 million since 2006 and has reversed it - break even. Actually, the truth is it's 800 K lower now compared with 2006.

Did the program explain the reason behind increasing arts funding by $45 million, and then reducing it the very next year? Most programs fare better with stable funding, so I'm not sure this paints Harper in a better light when it comes to supporting arts. Secondly, my opinion of funding of the arts is aligned with Zowpeb's (i.e. better if they support themselves), so I would have preferred that they cut $45 million from the previous levels. So, either way, it's not looking good on Harper in my view. However, I realize this is all posturing for Quebec voters, who seem to be the only ones who care about arts funding.

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