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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

How can we keep Souray?

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Say he's going to command $5 mil per season, and say that the cap doesn't go up but remains stable.

Is there any way the Habs can clear up the cap room required to keep the guy? Offhand, I'd suggest moving Aebischer (for a draft choice, say)...that'd open up $1.8; but after that, things get tricky. Maybe trading Samsonov, again for draft choices or minor leaguers, whatever.

This is just off the top of my head. But I think it'd be an interesting discussion, whether there's some way to do this without gutting the club. Let the fantasy GMing begin!!

(Of course, if you're one of the Souray-haters, then obviously this thread isn't for you ^_^ )

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Say he's going to command $5 mil per season, and say that the cap doesn't go up but remains stable.

Is there any way the Habs can clear up the cap room required to keep the guy? Offhand, I'd suggest moving Aebischer (for a draft choice, say)...that'd open up $1.8; but after that, things get tricky. Maybe trading Samsonov, again for draft choices or minor leaguers, whatever.

This is just off the top of my head. But I think it'd be an interesting discussion, whether there's some way to do this without gutting the club. Let the fantasy GMing begin!!

(Of course, if you're one of the Souray-haters, then obviously this thread isn't for you ^_^ )

Let Rivet and Niinimaa walk. That frees up 5 million right there. Give that to Souray and WOILA!

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I don't think he's going to stay. I would hope he wouldn't, but the team needs help at C.

Edited by fromage

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Don't foget the all important intervening variable...Markov!

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Souray isnt replaceable from the farmsystem since we dont have enough depth on D. Either we resign Souray (which I hope) or we sign some UFA to replace him (which I DONT hope). This is my typhical doomsday prediction but if we can replace Souray and Rivet we will take a big step backwards and that wont be fun.

Im afraid that we have to go for a run this season and then wait 2-3 years until we have the D stabilized for a new one.

Lucky for us all Im no expert. :D

Sooooo who else of the D in this league will be UFA's next summer?

Time to start predicting signings.

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Let Rivet and Niinimaa walk. That frees up 5 million right there. Give that to Souray and WOILA!

But Souray already makes +3M right now, so we'd only need to let go of one of tohse two d-men in order to afford Souray. The other one would be to make room for Markov who will get an equally big raise, atleast.

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Exactly.

Out of Rivet, Souray and Markov the Canadiens can only afford to keep two.

Markov is going to be in the 5 million range as well. Both him and Souray will probably be looking for deals similar to what McCabe and Kaberle got in Toronto last season.

The team will also probably keep only one of Johnson and Bonk.

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Thats a good question. As much as I like Souray, I dont know if Id agree with paying him 5 mill.

The problem with trading him is what will we get in return?

He makes such a difference for the team offensively and on the power play because of the threat he provides from the point. Thats hard to find.

Still, I would rather trade him before the end of the year and get SOMETHING rather than lose him to free agency.

We can let niniimaa go but as for Rivet, hopefully he'll resign for less. He really likes montreal, if he wants to stay he'll have to resign for less. And I like him and his work ethic, hes definitely not worth 2 mill tho.

This off season will be alot more tricky and likely alot more active for Gainey and Co.

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The problem with trading him is what will we get in return?

I have a little wish list from L.A. that Souray could probably fetch.

as for Rivet, hes definitely not worth 2 mill

Habs fans might not think so, but, seeing what blueliners like Rivet got last year I can see a few teams offering Rivet around what he makes now or even a little more.

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I really don't know though if the team can afford to trade him. He's the key to the powerplay.

If they trade him for prospects or picks, they'll be signalling that they're throwing in the towel prematurely. Obviously if he moves, Gainey will have to acquire a good player in return.

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Interesting discussion so far - keep it coming!

I don't think we can afford to lose Souray, either. But I also don't think that the Habs are top-echelon contenders this year - although definitely a dark horse - which is why I'd rather trade Souray before the deadline than get nothing for him altogether, IF they don't think they can resign him. I would only ride Souray to the bitter end if I really thought that *this is the year.* The cap demands ruthless management of your assets.

Between Markov, Souray, and Rivet, it's pretty obvious that you keep the first two and let Rivet go. Don't get me wrong, I like Rivet and think his departure would definitely weaken us - but not as much as losing either of the Big Two. Then again, pumping $10 mil into two defencemen (neither of whom has ever even made the all-star team) is a big wad of cash to commit in a cap system. This is where our lack of good young D really comes back to hurt us.

The lack of depth at C is killing us too. I'd say, 'get rid of Bonk,' but really, how would we replace him??

In any case, I'd say let Aeby/Rivet/Niinimaa/Bonk go, that would open up enough cap room. Then you cross your fingers that one of our young G can play back up, and that we can replace Rivet from within, or from a cheap FA signing; ditto Bonk (or else hope that Begin can be a shutdown C).

Boy, I shudder to think that THIS might be the last year before another 'retooling' phase. Sheesh.

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Obviously if he moves, Gainey will have to acquire a good player in return.

I wonder if Souray for Lubomir Visnovsky could work somehow?

If Souray aggrees to a new deal upon arrival and maybe throw in a prospect....or maybe I am way off? Perhaps it would take Souray and Ryder to get Visnovsky?

Regardless....Visnovsky would be an ideal return for Souray...but I could be a huge homer and overrating Souray's worth...I dont know...I'm just thinking out loud.

If Souray made it clear to Gainey that he was going to test the market I would be content if he was traded...I don't think this is "the year" for the Habs, and as long as whatever comes back fits into a long-term plan.

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The thing most people fail to consider when talking about Souray is that, while he's been a spark offensively, he struggles defensively on a fairly regular basis. He's a -4 this season, and while I'll be the first to point out that the stat is not a particularly great one, it still does have some uses. If we can trade Souray while his value is high and get a great return, then we should go for it. The reality is that we'll probably only be able to afford one of Souray and Markov, and the latter is better at both ends of the ice with the exception of a stellar slap shot. Rivet, while not flashy, is the kind of guy who'll be chased significantly as a UFA because he's that stay-at-home defender who won't hurt you much. Montreal is *far* more likely to sign Markov and Rivet for those very reasons.

This is the time to move Souray. His value is huge right now because his offensive production is masking his deficiencies on the back end. If we can package him with one of our kids, we should be able to get a fantastic return. Just on his own, we should still get ourselves a very solid player. Montreal has eight NHL defenders and while most would want to see Niinimaa leave, there's virtually no chance of that because of his rather large contract. Best to keep him as reserve and work with him while Cube gets his ice and Dandy can play the wing on the fourth line.

I would suggest to readers that the continual rumours dating back to mid-last season must have some elements of truth in them. Look to Nashville and Legwand as well as San Jose and Marleau. Don't think it's possible? Today's trade market would make a Souray + Perezhogin for Marleau deal a not-out-of-the-realm-of-possibility trade. The cap numbers are close enough that Montreal could wiggle a little to make sure Marleau was a clean fit.

Nashville would not be an ideal location for Souray - it's no secret that he'd prefer to go nearer his daughter if he leaves Montreal; however with his impending UFA status, a trade to the Preds for the balance of the season for Legwand might be acceptable enough. (Trading for Legwand would probably make more sense anyhow, since it will allow more cap room to resign some of the other players.)

For sure, it's quite possible Montreal will hold on to Souray until the trade deadline, and perhaps until the end of the season. It's not even out of the realm to hear that Montreal resigns him long-term. However my guess would be that it's far more likely Gainey will use Souray's added value right now to see if he can't improve the club on a more long-term basis.

The ultimate bonus, of course, is that Souray is a mere 30, so any team trading for him could very well resign him long-term. Let's assume, for a moment, that San Jose, or LA, or Phoenix, or another team out West was willing to pay the price to pick up Souray and sign him for a three or four year period. That would probably make that team far more willing to loosen up a younger talent to come back the other way.

Look for rumours in the coming days and weeks of Souray heading West, along with perhaps rumblings of his agent being allowed to speak with teams about potential contracts.

Whether he stays or goes, Souray will be a fascinating rumour mill all on his own.

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Well if Souray sucks for the second half we might get him cheap. Isn't markov restricted? I say don't trade away the upcoming free agents as we need them to win the cup this year. Try to negotiate throughout the year and then see where we stand come spring when we have the cup. They may all want to stay to take a run at 5!

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The thing most people fail to consider when talking about Souray is that, while he's been a spark offensively, he struggles defensively on a fairly regular basis. He's a -4 this season, and while I'll be the first to point out that the stat is not a particularly great one, it still does have some uses. If we can trade Souray while his value is high and get a great return, then we should go for it. The reality is that we'll probably only be able to afford one of Souray and Markov, and the latter is better at both ends of the ice with the exception of a stellar slap shot. Rivet, while not flashy, is the kind of guy who'll be chased significantly as a UFA because he's that stay-at-home defender who won't hurt you much. Montreal is *far* more likely to sign Markov and Rivet for those very reasons.

This is the time to move Souray. His value is huge right now because his offensive production is masking his deficiencies on the back end. If we can package him with one of our kids, we should be able to get a fantastic return. Just on his own, we should still get ourselves a very solid player. Montreal has eight NHL defenders and while most would want to see Niinimaa leave, there's virtually no chance of that because of his rather large contract. Best to keep him as reserve and work with him while Cube gets his ice and Dandy can play the wing on the fourth line.

I would suggest to readers that the continual rumours dating back to mid-last season must have some elements of truth in them. Look to Nashville and Legwand as well as San Jose and Marleau. Don't think it's possible? Today's trade market would make a Souray + Perezhogin for Marleau deal a not-out-of-the-realm-of-possibility trade. The cap numbers are close enough that Montreal could wiggle a little to make sure Marleau was a clean fit.

Nashville would not be an ideal location for Souray - it's no secret that he'd prefer to go nearer his daughter if he leaves Montreal; however with his impending UFA status, a trade to the Preds for the balance of the season for Legwand might be acceptable enough. (Trading for Legwand would probably make more sense anyhow, since it will allow more cap room to resign some of the other players.)

For sure, it's quite possible Montreal will hold on to Souray until the trade deadline, and perhaps until the end of the season. It's not even out of the realm to hear that Montreal resigns him long-term. However my guess would be that it's far more likely Gainey will use Souray's added value right now to see if he can't improve the club on a more long-term basis.

The ultimate bonus, of course, is that Souray is a mere 30, so any team trading for him could very well resign him long-term. Let's assume, for a moment, that San Jose, or LA, or Phoenix, or another team out West was willing to pay the price to pick up Souray and sign him for a three or four year period. That would probably make that team far more willing to loosen up a younger talent to come back the other way.

Look for rumours in the coming days and weeks of Souray heading West, along with perhaps rumblings of his agent being allowed to speak with teams about potential contracts.

Whether he stays or goes, Souray will be a fascinating rumour mill all on his own.

Guys, don't listen to him, he doesn't know what he's talking about! :lol:

No, seriously, it looks like Souray is going to have to go. But Talon, I think you're overrating Visnovsky.

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Guys, don't listen to him, he doesn't know what he's talking about! :lol:

Agreed. Ignore the windbag.

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But Talon, I think you're overrating Visnovsky.

Do you think Souray straight up for Visnovsky would be reasonable then? Did I overrate him when I added Ryder or a prospect?

Visnovsky will never replace Souray's toughness and leadership...but he can cover the points on the powerplay, he is way more mobile than Souray, and he, I think, is signed for another year at just under 2 million.

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We know what the org wants between now and 2010. :clap: It's very possible that Bob will want Souray for the playoffs. He may decide that he is a shopper on the UFA market and will sign a good UFA replacement and maybe O'Byrne can step up in 2007-08.

Markov and Rivet end up staying

PS. Don't shoot the messenger. No one has mentioned this possible scenario being played out. I'm not advocating this but thought it was worth mentioning

Edited by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

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Do you think Souray straight up for Visnovsky would be reasonable then? Did I overrate him when I added Ryder or a prospect?

Visnovsky will never replace Souray's toughness and leadership...but he can cover the points on the powerplay, he is way more mobile than Souray, and he, I think, is signed for another year at just under 2 million.

Souray + Ryder is too much. It would depend on the prospect. But Souray's stock is high right now - he's a pretty hot commodity around the league.

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All I can say is, don't underrate what Souray brings offensively because of his defensive lapses. Scoring goals is just as important as keeping them out of your own net.

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Say he's going to command $5 mil per season, and say that the cap doesn't go up but remains stable.

Is there any way the Habs can clear up the cap room required to keep the guy? Offhand, I'd suggest moving Aebischer (for a draft choice, say)...that'd open up $1.8; but after that, things get tricky. Maybe trading Samsonov, again for draft choices or minor leaguers, whatever.

This is just off the top of my head. But I think it'd be an interesting discussion, whether there's some way to do this without gutting the club. Let the fantasy GMing begin!!

(Of course, if you're one of the Souray-haters, then obviously this thread isn't for you ^_^ )

To say he's going to command $5 million is purely conjectural. The financial landscape has changed. Only the ridiculously highly talented can hope to ask for that kind of salary (I hope, anyway). Also, the league's cap may even rise again for next year.

So, there should be place for him.

GO :hlogo: GO!

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If this scoring habit of Komisarek will continue then the Habs could spare Souray.

I think it's great that Komi are going.

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This is where our lack of good young D really comes back to hurt us.

The lack of depth at C is killing us too. I'd say, 'get rid of Bonk,' but really, how would we replace him??

Emelin/Yemelin is an option for the near future. http://hockeysfuture.com/prospect/alexei_yemelin

And as for replacing Bonk...if you want a defensive minded center with character, Chipchura seems close to ready.

Edited by TruthMonger

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