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The players on the team voted for our last captain.

No. That thread is the battle of the tunnel vision ideologies. Imo, Asking if Galchenyuk is the #1.... i mean, what is this.. 2015? lol

Brought the ill out of Will hahaha, I like it. Definitely a little fiestyness up there. Since I mentioned intangibles I figured I'd make a comment too. I completely agree they're real and they matter. I just think they're much harder to observe and because of that much harder to use in support of an argument. It could end up being that the single biggest benefit from either side is some intangible one of the players bring. I'm just not sure how we'd ever know that. And thanks ehjay, I could see Carey having a good impact on Weber for sure since he's known as a top puck moving goalie. How was Rinne in Nashville though? I have no idea. I'm also not sure if the difference betwen Laviolette's system vs. Therriens system makes it a moot point though.

That's fairly aggressive for 8 in the morning. I suppose you're right that I crossed the line with my drunken comment so I apologize. Was celebrating a big win at ball with the boys, had a few too many pops and the ill came out of the Will In response to your response, it's also condescending to discredit intangibles because you can't find them on a spreadsheet anywhere. They're real and they matter. I think that analytics are a great measuring tool and do have a place in the game. But they are definitively not the be-all and end-all of a hockey game as you have been presenting them to be. Just different perspectives and there's nothing wrong with that

I think that there is one difference between the two sides of this argument. It comes down to this: People arguing against the trade are looking at how the trade looks today; using the numbers we already have to work with. People arguing in favour of the trade are looking ahead to how the team will perform going forward. Prior to next season, it is hard to argue anything but we lost a player with more trade value. I.e, we could have got more in the trade, making this a bad trade TODAY. My point is, the present is the only concrete thing we have to work with, so leave the future where it is. Today this is a bad trade because we lost a more valuable assets with nothing to balance out our lost value. That's the against argument. If you look back, very few from either side of the argument have stated that they think the team will perform worse next season. I certainly think the team will improve upon last year. But it's hard to know how the team would have performed had the trade not been made. Attributing team performance based on the trade screams hindsight bias. The best statistics to get an idea of the impact of an individual are ones like relative corsi, but most supporters of the trade tend to dislike them. As for the intangibles, they are just that, intangible. In my opinion both Subban and Weber bring intangibles. Probably both will benefit their teams. Subban's energy, Weber's leadership. It's hard to make solid arguments for them because of their intangibility for lack of a better word. But still there is always the retrospective aspect of a trade too, of course, once those post-trade numbers become reality; but we aren't there yet. Perhaps Weber has the next best 6-7 years (wanna bet?) and then we'll be able to say which side of the trade played out better. That doesn't change whether you lost out on a trade in the present. This is also why I think the argument for the trade is pretty weak in the present. Hopefully for the Habs the argument becomes much stronger in the near future.

Whelp! Guess I hate the Montreal Canadiens now. All hope is lost.

He doesn't fit the team better. He fits the coaching better. And Montreal has some of the worst coaching in the league. I'm not talking just Therrien. I'm counting the assistants, who I doubt will get jobs elsewhere when this all falls apart (save for Muller who is better respected than all of them). The best of them went to Florida and there's a guy here who will tell you what good he has done over there. What's left is a coaching staff swimming upstream protected by the GM from any blame.