smon Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Your argument is faulty. Kovalev scored 40 goals once on a stacked Pittsburgh team. His career points per game average is worse than Saku Koivu's. Koivu has also played better on average than Kovalev this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummerman Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) Your argument is faulty. Kovalev scored 40 goals once on a stacked Pittsburgh team. His career points per game average is worse than Saku Koivu's. Koivu has also played better on average than Kovalev this season. That's cause he has played a whole slew more games then Koivu and when he entered the league with the Rangers he was put on a defensive line. Let's just say Koivu will never reach Kovy's career total in goals or points and will never win a Cup . Case closed Edited February 16, 2007 by Strummerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 LOL! With the Rangers he was a nightmare and not one coach could motivate him, not Mike Keenan, and not Colin Campbell. I'm sure you heard of his infamous 7 minute shift. Kovalev has only scored more than 60 pts 4 times in his career...Hardly something to be proud of considering his talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummerman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 LOL! With the Rangers he was a nightmare and not one coach could motivate him, not Mike Keenan, and not Colin Campbell. I'm sure you heard of his infamous 7 minute shift. Kovalev has only scored more than 60 pts 4 times in his career...Hardly something to be proud of considering his talent. Yeah the nightmare that played on the team that won the Only ranger Cup in 50 years. Kovalev in his early years was put on a defensive line with the rangers. You are thinking of his second stint with the Rangers after leaving Pittsburgh. That team had as much heart as the habs this year. His 5 years with the Penguins as an offensive player he filled the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 No, I'm not. Keenan coached the team in '94, he wore out his welcome with Campbell after... They traded for him the holdout Petr Nedved...I mean come on. Also with Pittsburgh he only cracked the 30 goal barrier once, he was not all star level by any means Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummerman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 No, I'm not. Keenan coached the team in '94, he wore out his welcome with Campbell after... They traded for him the holdout Petr Nedved...I mean come on. Also with Pittsburgh he only cracked the 30 goal barrier once, he was not all star level by any means Wrong he cracked it twice, 2 times more than Saint Koivu. He played 5 years with Pittsburgh. You wear out a welcome after one year not 5 years. And if he was such a bust with the Rangers the first time why did they get him again? The Penguins let him loose because they couldn't afford or sign him like they did Jagr etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 In his years with the Rangers, he never even scored 60 pts once. He's only ever cracked the 70pt barrier playing on as you mentioned a very good Pittsburgh franchise. They got him again because they had different management. It was a complete salary dump by the Penguins - they were nearly bankrupt so they traded Alexei Kovalev, Dan LaCouture, Janne Laukkanen and Mike Wilson to the New York Rangers for Mikael Samuelsson, Rico Fata, Joel Bouchard, Richard Lintner and cash. Hardly a fair trade, the cash was the big pickup for Pittsburgh. The Rangers were in their ######ed early Sather acquire every leading player with a big contract era...he didn't exactly work out there now did he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Well since this thread is about a fire sale, the answer is simply Yes. The team needs to turn in a newe younger direction. This is the first time in years the Habs can actually get talent and some high picks back. Do it Bob. The current roster stinks, they have for years, that's not changing. Souray: Trade him, if the rumors about the Sharks is true, go for it, Pavelski and a first rounder is a no brainer. I would prefer one of there younger D. Markov: They need to find out if he is interested in staying, if he doesn't know, trade him to the ducks yuo should get something similar back as Souray. Rivet / Bouillon: Trade them for whatever. Ryder: Carolins is looking for a scoring winger, get Babchuk back, he is young, good skater, good shot. Should improve in time. Koivu: Ask if he wants to play for a contender, if yes, he can go too. Kovalev and Samsonov i'm afraid the habs are stuck with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummerman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) In his years with the Rangers, he never even scored 60 pts once. He's only ever cracked the 70pt barrier playing on as you mentioned a very good Pittsburgh franchise. They got him again because they had different management. It was a complete salary dump by the Penguins - they were nearly bankrupt so they traded Alexei Kovalev, Dan LaCouture, Janne Laukkanen and Mike Wilson to the New York Rangers for Mikael Samuelsson, Rico Fata, Joel Bouchard, Richard Lintner and cash. Hardly a fair trade, the cash was the big pickup for Pittsburgh. The Rangers were in their ######ed early Sather acquire every leading player with a big contract era...he didn't exactly work out there now did he. Once again I have to repeat for the zillionth time when he was in New York he was considered a defensive forward on a defensive line. A little like what Perez is doing with the Habs presently. They didn't need his offensive skills with the Rangers bacuase of players like Messier and Graves. Once he joined the Penguins he was given offensive responsibilities. Clearly it was a salary dump, when he left the Penguins but not the way you seem to suggest. He was not dumped because of his poor play, the opposite is true he was dumped because they could not afford to pay him because of his outstanding stats. The same reason the Penguins dumped Jagr. Well since this thread is about a fire sale, the answer is simply Yes. The team needs to turn in a newe younger direction. This is the first time in years the Habs can actually get talent and some high picks back. Do it Bob. The current roster stinks, they have for years, that's not changing. Souray: Trade him, if the rumors about the Sharks is true, go for it, Pavelski and a first rounder is a no brainer. I would prefer one of there younger D. Markov: They need to find out if he is interested in staying, if he doesn't know, trade him to the ducks yuo should get something similar back as Souray. Rivet / Bouillon: Trade them for whatever. Ryder: Carolins is looking for a scoring winger, get Babchuk back, he is young, good skater, good shot. Should improve in time. Koivu: Ask if he wants to play for a contender, if yes, he can go too. Kovalev and Samsonov i'm afraid the habs are stuck with. Agree about everything except maybe Ryder. I would never let go of snipers.They are not easy to find. Edited February 17, 2007 by Strummerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I really am contemplating a fire sale right now... some west teams would pay a really dear price to get Souray... and just that factor (paired with the fact that our SC hopes are nill and our playoffs hopes are decreasing with every loss) is enough... imagine, future 1st line Center, or future 1st pairing dman along with a decent 1st rounder for a guy we will surely lose anyways next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I really am contemplating a fire sale right now... some west teams would pay a really dear price to get Souray... and just that factor (paired with the fact that our SC hopes are nill and our playoffs hopes are decreasing with every loss) is enough... imagine, future 1st line Center, or future 1st pairing dman along with a decent 1st rounder for a guy we will surely lose anyways next summer. Yup, since the Flyer/Preds trade the door of opportunity is now open and the Habs are open for business. That trade rattled a few cages out west and now there will be some teams interested in some Habs as a rent a player. Souray..Rivet???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebischer4life Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 No, I'm not. Keenan coached the team in '94, he wore out his welcome with Campbell after... They traded for him the holdout Petr Nedved...I mean come on. Also with Pittsburgh he only cracked the 30 goal barrier once, he was not all star level by any means First of all get your facts straight pal. Kovalev was used as a secondary player in new york. He played on a defensive team and with a system in place. He was still very young. Then he went to Pittsburgh. Career high in points with 66 in his first year. Career high with 95 in his 2nd year. (4th in league scoring that year) Then then next year he missed 15 games but was still one of the top 15 scorers in the league. Had he played.. he was on pace for 93 points which would put him top 5 in the league again. His chemistry with Straka and Lang was amazing. The next year Jagr was traded, Lemieux missed 60 games and Kovalev pretty much produced with Jan Hrdina playing on his line. 64 points in 54 games.. again on pace for over 90 points. Then he was traded back to New York Rangers. Surprise surprise he had his lowest season in terms of points in his career the following year! Kovalev just doesnt fit on a defensive team like the rangers at the time and the habs right now. If you put him on a team like Ottawa, Buffalo, Pittsburgh he'd instantly score lots of points. He had 65 in 69 games last year despite playing with Ribeiro and Bulis.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebischer4life Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 LOL! With the Rangers he was a nightmare and not one coach could motivate him, not Mike Keenan, and not Colin Campbell. I'm sure you heard of his infamous 7 minute shift. Kovalev has only scored more than 60 pts 4 times in his career...Hardly something to be proud of considering his talent. 5 times actually.... 5 in the last 6 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummerman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) First of all get your facts straight pal. Kovalev was used as a secondary player in new york. He played on a defensive team and with a system in place. He was still very young. Then he went to Pittsburgh. Career high in points with 66 in his first year. Career high with 95 in his 2nd year. (4th in league scoring that year) Then then next year he missed 15 games but was still one of the top 15 scorers in the league. Had he played.. he was on pace for 93 points which would put him top 5 in the league again. His chemistry with Straka and Lang was amazing. The next year Jagr was traded, Lemieux missed 60 games and Kovalev pretty much produced with Jan Hrdina playing on his line. 64 points in 54 games.. again on pace for over 90 points. Then he was traded back to New York Rangers. Surprise surprise he had his lowest season in terms of points in his career the following year! Kovalev just doesnt fit on a defensive team like the rangers at the time and the habs right now. If you put him on a team like Ottawa, Buffalo, Pittsburgh he'd instantly score lots of points. He had 65 in 69 games last year despite playing with Ribeiro and Bulis.. is there an echo in the room lol, but I did forget it was lang and not Jagr- damn that Penguin team was loaded Lang Kovy Straka Lemieux Jagr, too bad they faced Hasek and got eliminated, I bet they would have won the Cup if not for Hasek Edited February 17, 2007 by Strummerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Once again I have to repeat for the zillionth time when he was in New York he was considered a defensive forward on a defensive line. A little like what Perez is doing with the Habs presently. They didn't need his offensive skills with the Rangers bacuase of players like Messier and Graves. Once he joined the Penguins he was given offensive responsibilities. Clearly it was a salary dump, when he left the Penguins but not the way you seem to suggest. He was not dumped because of his poor play, the opposite is true he was dumped because they could not afford to pay him because of his outstanding stats. The same reason the Penguins dumped Jagr. Agree about everything except maybe Ryder. I would never let go of snipers.They are not easy to find. lmao Yes. Let's keep Ryder. We can base the team around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummerman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 lmao Yes. Let's keep Ryder. We can base the team around him. no let's keep Koivu he is only gonna get better when he hits 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch_nl Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 This is the exact same team that was fourh in the east during christmas. That should tell something. Small, small things can have huge impact. Montreal won't have to sell the whole team but it is time to make a move to ignite some sparks. If Souray will sign with a western californa team then the timing could be right to deal him. But a complete selloff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacchus Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 ah, get back to reality all you "sell the whole teamers". We may move a piece or two, but selling the whole team would make us a crappy team for the next 3 years. You need a balance of youth and veterans. Also, wondering if Carbonneau needs some sit down time with Gainey to work on his coaching strategy! If we can move Souray for some solid youth, it could be worthwhile. Some rumour mill was suggesting we trade Souray for a goalie ... but that would be stupid. With Halak and Danis in the pipe already we need to give them their fair shot. I'm hoping Halak sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 If Souray will sign with a western californa team then the timing could be right to deal him. But a complete selloff? our core players are aging: kovalev is 34, koivu is 31 rivet 30 or 31. huet... lets face facts, what have we ever won with these players ?? not much. at 2.5, river is making way too much dough for what he brings to the team. ditto koivu and kovy. samonov.... :puke: will we ever win with these guys ?? nope. will we be making a step foward by finishing 8th?? nope !! we only have 22M committed for next year and of all our RFAs, on ly plekanec will get a significant raise. maybe komisarek as well. if team want a jonshon or a bonk, be my guest. they want a souray: pay the price. if the want markov, they will have to surrender alot of $$ because he's the only one I see being signed at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 First of all get your facts straight pal. Kovalev was used as a secondary player in new york. He played on a defensive team and with a system in place. He was still very young. Then he went to Pittsburgh. Career high in points with 66 in his first year. Career high with 95 in his 2nd year. (4th in league scoring that year) Then then next year he missed 15 games but was still one of the top 15 scorers in the league. Had he played.. he was on pace for 93 points which would put him top 5 in the league again. His chemistry with Straka and Lang was amazing. The next year Jagr was traded, Lemieux missed 60 games and Kovalev pretty much produced with Jan Hrdina playing on his line. 64 points in 54 games.. again on pace for over 90 points. Then he was traded back to New York Rangers. Surprise surprise he had his lowest season in terms of points in his career the following year! Kovalev just doesnt fit on a defensive team like the rangers at the time and the habs right now. If you put him on a team like Ottawa, Buffalo, Pittsburgh he'd instantly score lots of points. He had 65 in 69 games last year despite playing with Ribeiro and Bulis.. So what? All you've proved is that he needs guys like Straka or Lang alongside him to play well. And yes, I agree he doesn't fit with the Canadiens, that's my point. Either they change the system (which they're not going to) or they get guys who can actually play well in it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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