Athlétique.Canadien Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Why do everyone think that when a journalist state an opinion, it's automatically a true fact... C'mon alexstream, I did use the word "apparently" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 And tomorrow, everybody will cry cuz we missed the playoffs. That's what we need, missing the playoffs 2 years in a row to calm things downs and rebuild. But if we miss the playoffs 2 years in a row, media will take on Gainey and Carbo... It's a damn circle loaded of mess. If we miss the playoffs, Carbo and Gainey won't be too hurt, medias will focus on the so-called leaders and core players, ie. Koivu, Kovalev, Ryder, Rivet, Huet, etc. With the depth in the system, you'll see the medias ask for a Pittsburgh-like youth movement. The medias are much less conservative about young players than the Habs organization, and it dates back long ago. Either way, this year is a big year because we're witnessing a real turnaround in the future of the team because of exactly that we've got a boat load of youths on the verge of being NHL-caliber; coupled with the fact that the veterans on the Habs roster aren't meeting expectations. 1+1=2. The Habs brass has already started digging in their young depth to fill some holes and it has'nt been much different than what was going on with the vets instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I am patient enough to wait 2 years and start to build up these rookies. I'm too. But i'm not sure Michel Villeneuve and all the CKAC and 110% fans are that patient. The Booooers in the stands aren't that patient too... The athmosphere would be dark if the Habs miss the playoffs some years. I still think the best way to rebuild is to finish 29th or in 30 place to grab potentially futur all-stars. Tavares is the next big thing... An habs jersey would fit so well on him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesquik Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'm too. But i'm not sure Michel Villeneuve and all the CKAC and 110% fans are that patient. The Booooers in the stands aren't that patient too... The athmosphere would be dark if the Habs miss the playoffs some years. I still think the best way to rebuild is to finish 29th or in 30 place to grab potentially futur all-stars. Tavares is the next big thing... An habs jersey would fit so well on him... Tavares? Well I missed something, who is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Tavares? Well I missed something, who is he? Try Google... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 (edited) Tavares? Well I missed something, who is he? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tavares_(ice_hockey) Position: C Height: 6.00 Weight: 183 Shoots: Left Hometown: Oakville, ON Birthdate: 1990-09-20 Edited February 25, 2007 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Don Lever had a telling comment on Chipchura when he was discussing some of the prospects, he said he needs to gain an extra step. Presumably in his skating. That is tough to do. 20 year old hockey players can gain or lose wieght, add muscle, learn to play defense, learn to play more physical hockey, etc., but they can almost never "gain an extra step". So, I don't think it would take a huge offer to make the Habs trade him. It is tough to say just how good these kids will turn out to be. Latendresse and Lapierre are the best of the bunch at the moment, and probably in the long haul as well. But neither looks to be a superstar in the making. Halak and Price have been impressive to this point in their careers, but goaltenders are generally as good as the team in front of them, and are notorious for blowing hot and cold. Who would have dreamed a couple of years back that Jose Theodore would be warming a bench behind Peter Budaj, or that Canadiens would be pinning their hopes on a 30 year old goalie with one season as an NHL starter in his entire career? Kostitsyn and Grabovski are 22 and 23 years old respectively and have a grand total of about 6 NHL points between them. Andrei sounded pretty bummed out about his time in the habs organization as well, in an interview he gave in Belarus when he was back there. He asked for several weeks off to go back home. That is not something a happy employee does, regardless of circumstance. You have to wonder what his future would be if he had been granted that time and was unavailable when injuries hit the parent team. You also have to wonder why his partner and their child remain in Belarus when he has been working in North America for 3 years now. On Grabovski, Lever said that he has to learn to play defense. But how much of an offensive threat will he be if he does? He isn't exactly setting the AHL on fire as it is. Once you get past those players, you're dealing with a bunch of AHLers in their mid 20s pretty much, or juniors who may or may not project as NHL players. Matt D'Agostini and Sergei Kostitsyn are putting up good numbers at their respective levels, but they didn't last until the 6th and 7th round of the draft without some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Don Lever had a telling comment on Chipchura when he was discussing some of the prospects, he said he needs to gain an extra step. Presumably in his skating. That is tough to do. 20 year old hockey players can gain or lose wieght, add muscle, learn to play defense, learn to play more physical hockey, etc., but they can almost never "gain an extra step". So, I don't think it would take a huge offer to make the Habs trade him. It is tough to say just how good these kids will turn out to be. Latendresse and Lapierre are the best of the bunch at the moment, and probably in the long haul as well. But neither looks to be a superstar in the making. Halak and Price have been impressive to this point in their careers, but goaltenders are generally as good as the team in front of them, and are notorious for blowing hot and cold. Who would have dreamed a couple of years back that Jose Theodore would be warming a bench behind Peter Budaj, or that Canadiens would be pinning their hopes on a 30 year old goalie with one season as an NHL starter in his entire career? Kostitsyn and Grabovski are 22 and 23 years old respectively and have a grand total of about 6 NHL points between them. Andrei sounded pretty bummed out about his time in the habs organization as well, in an interview he gave in Belarus when he was back there. He asked for several weeks off to go back home. That is not something a happy employee does, regardless of circumstance. You have to wonder what his future would be if he had been granted that time and was unavailable when injuries hit the parent team. You also have to wonder why his partner and their child remain in Belarus when he has been working in North America for 3 years now. On Grabovski, Lever said that he has to learn to play defense. But how much of an offensive threat will he be if he does? He isn't exactly setting the AHL on fire as it is. Once you get past those players, you're dealing with a bunch of AHLers in their mid 20s pretty much, or juniors who may or may not project as NHL players. Matt D'Agostini and Sergei Kostitsyn are putting up good numbers at their respective levels, but they didn't last until the 6th and 7th round of the draft without some reason. That's one way to look at it, but you seem to be putting the make-or-break age bar a little low. 22 and 23 isnt that old if you consider players usually break out in their late 20's. Kosty and Grabs are from Belarus, not the greatest development territory in the World. That means a little extra adapting time. I rather look at it all from a more long-term perspective. Check out the drafts and who made it. This year Milroy rounded out the 2001 draft top 4 by reaching the NHL, even if he has been off the map for quite some times. From the 2002 draft Higgins has already made it, with Ferland rounding out in the AHL. From the 2003 draft Lapierre got in this year, with Kosty on the cusp of it and Halak getting some chance now. O'Byrne just made the jump to pro. From the 2004 draft Chipper & Grabs are both in their 1st pro season; and Emelin is panningt out well in the RSL. From the 2005 draft you've got Lats already up, and Price on the horizon, D'Agostini and Aubin are in their 1st pro season but we're talking about 4 players who could still be in junior. In 2 years, most of those guys could be on the NHL roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I agree with KoZed on this. Besides, I think one problem people have when evaluating prospects is that they keep comparing every young player to top-end prospects who can establish themselves as good NHLers at the ages of 18, 19, or even 20. Just because a player isn't dominating the NHL by the age of 20 doens't mean he won't make it, or is a flop. In my opinion, Mikhail Grabovsky is doing very well offensively for a guy who's playing his very first season in North America. As for Kostsitsyn, he may have been a little behind last year in terms of development, but he's doing very well this season; we shouldn't forget that he started in the AHL at a very young age, and that some other 2003 1st-rounders are not doing any better at the AHL level, including Steve Bernier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Grabovski and Kostitsyn have both been playing pro hockey for about 6 years at least, I think. They may not have made a lot of money in the Belarussian Senior League when they were 15 or 16, but they still got paid for their work. They both spent a couple of years in the RSL as well. I don't think you will see a lot more out of them than they have shown to this point. I don't like their chances in Montreal too much because Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey are both such sticklers for defensive responsibility. Perhaps with another team they could have a few productive NHL seasons, a la Ron Hainsey. Milroy looks stuck as a bubble guy, an injury replacement type of player. Chipchura may get slotted in the same role unless he magically acquires that "extra step". Even more so for Ferland. With the goalies, as I said, you just can't tell. Halak could turn out to be the next Tomas Vokoun or Domenick Hasak. But for each of those players, there are about a dozen Euro prospects who come over, look good in the ECHL and AHL for a few years and never progress beyond that point. To become a significant NHL player, a prospect almost always has to crack the roster when he is 18, 19, or 20 years old. Unless he has been a star in Europe at that age. Players who reach the age of 22 without much NHL time can become semi regulars, but almost never impact players. Michael Ryder is brought up as an exception, but I don't know that you could ever consider him an impact player. The fact that he plays as much as he does and gets all the PP time has more to do with the Habs lack of top line scoring than his talent level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Don Lever had a telling comment on Chipchura when he was discussing some of the prospects, he said he needs to gain an extra step. Presumably in his skating. That is tough to do. 20 year old hockey players can gain or lose wieght, add muscle, learn to play defense, learn to play more physical hockey, etc., but they can almost never "gain an extra step". So, I don't think it would take a huge offer to make the Habs trade him....." Learning to gain an extra step is something most young AHL level prospects need to do. How many times to you read that players need to improve an aspect of their game in order to make the jump to the next level. It's not all that uncommon..... It is usually done by learning to adjust to the play at the next level. Lever didn't necessarily say he was slow, in fact it may mean he needs to learn to make the next move a bit quicker. Learning to anticipate and respond to the puck better - to take the shortest route to the puck and arrive there angry as Bobby Clarke once said. If you watch the good older players, one can't help but notice the fact that they adapt to the game by using their hockey smarts to compensate for a loss of speed that comes with age. In other words they learn to conserve energy by taking a shorter and more direct route to the puck. Larry Robinson was one of the best examples of that. His play in later years exemplified that philosophy. Chipchura is a very intelligent player with a great work ethic. He is not projected to be a first line player. More important than his lack of speed though is the fact that this guy has leadership qualities in spades. Given his progress so far I would be very surprized if he were dealt. He has far too much upside to give up on just yet. He will be a solid 2nd or third line player in the future, and will bring solid leadership qualities to the dressing room. Players like that play key roles on any championship team! Edited February 26, 2007 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Don Lever had a telling comment on Chipchura when he was discussing some of the prospects, he said he needs to gain an extra step. Presumably in his skating. That is tough to do. 20 year old hockey players can gain or lose wieght, add muscle, learn to play defense, learn to play more physical hockey, etc., but they can almost never "gain an extra step". So, I don't think it would take a huge offer to make the Habs trade him. Just because Don Lever said something, doesn't mean Bob Gainey feels the same way. It also doesn't mean that one flaw in his game makes him suddenly on the block. Also, Lever saying that doesn't mean Lever doesn't like Chipchura. He also said in that very same comment (I suppose you read the same Gazette article that I did) that Chips would make it on desire. He's basically saying that as it is, he'll be a Bonk but if he improves his speed he can be more of a John Madden? I know you're not high on Chipchura but he's actually one of the most highly touted defensive forward prospects in the game and I don't think Gainey will be willing to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) To become a significant NHL player, a prospect almost always has to crack the roster when he is 18, 19, or 20 years old. Unless he has been a star in Europe at that age. Players who reach the age of 22 without much NHL time can become semi regulars, but almost never impact players. Brett Hull Martin St. Louis Teemu Selanne Henrik Zetterberg Daniel Alfredsson Dan Boyle Bill Guerin John Leclair Zigmund Palffy Adam Oates Milan Hejduk Jonathan Cheechoo Kevin Stevens Chris Chelios Ed Belfour Cristobal Huet Dominik Hasek Lubomir Visnovsky Brian Rafalski Andrei Markov Kevin Bieksa Mikka Kipprusoff Ryan Miller Marty Turco Dwayne Roloson Curtis Joseph almost never eh? Gotta love sweeping generalizations Edited February 26, 2007 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Yea, he handled himself well at the world Juniors. If you play in crucial situations for Sutter, and Gainey took him (great D minds) he will be fine. I would be very Happy if takes the third line spot and turns into what Bonk has done this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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