Guy Carbonneau interviews

[Chris]

They were 2 points out of the top spot behing Buffalo close to half way through the season playing well in the system. Now all of a sudden they can't play that style. That is bull, they problem is they are lazy, don't hit, aren't tough, lno leadership, lose too many battles, don't skate, can't play D, can't score. The can do damage on the Pk, and score goals shorthanded. Check the stats, they are bottom 5 in everything besides the above 2 categories. That is way more then a system problem.

[ShortHanded]

They were 2 points out of the top spot behing Buffalo close to half way through the season playing well in the system. Now all of a sudden they can't play that style. That is bull, they problem is they are lazy, don't hit, aren't tough, lno leadership, lose too many battles, don't skate, can't play D, can't score. The can do damage on the Pk, and score goals shorthanded. Check the stats, they are bottom 5 in everything besides the above 2 categories. That is way more then a system problem.

They were that close to Buffalo with few injuries, hot goaltending, and a lot of last minute / OT / Shootout wins... Basically, a lot the games could have gone either way. They weren't as good as their record showed.

and the fact that they're bottom 5 in that many things means it definitely IS a system problem.

Edited March 8, 2007 by ShortHanded

[Zowpeb]

They were 2 points out of the top spot behing Buffalo close to half way through the season playing well in the system. Now all of a sudden they can't play that style. That is bull, they problem is they are lazy, don't hit, aren't tough, lno leadership, lose too many battles, don't skate, can't play D, can't score. The can do damage on the Pk, and score goals shorthanded. Check the stats, they are bottom 5 in everything besides the above 2 categories. That is way more then a system problem.

Exactly. They CAN play the system but they aren't. These guys are professionals...not some group of house league amateurs. They are being paid millions a year to PLAY THE FRIGGIN GAME the way the coach tells them to.

However, I will concede(in hindsight) that the team played over it's head for the first half. This is why I am so bothered by the lack of any moves at a trade deadline that saw a MASSIVE collapse. A drop from being a top conference team to 10th place...

Remember, the trap that Carbo teaches is essentially the same system this team used in the mid-late 70's, late 80's and early 90's...it can easily work in the "new" NHL. The problem is not the system.

I also believe that Carbo should take the majority of the credit for the PP and PK. These have been his forte as an assistant coach and even as a player. They are running his game on special teams.

This team seriously lacks d-men who can move the puck in the transition game. Only Markov is effective in this area. The Habs have good speed and skill up front and no one to get them the puck as they move with speed through the neutral zone. By the time they get the puck they are mired deep in the corner or getting stone-walled at the blue line. That is an issue of missing talent.

[Chris]

Yep, the other point i would add is the Devils, Minnesota, Dallas all run the same system and are in the playoffs. The Devils and Stars also have alot more cups then the Habs the last 13 years as well. So stop blaming the coach stuff.

You can't win without talent and desire. 2 things the Habs lack in.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

They were 2 points out of the top spot behing Buffalo close to half way through the season playing well in the system. Now all of a sudden they can't play that style. That is bull, they problem is they are lazy, don't hit, aren't tough, lno leadership, lose too many battles, don't skate, can't play D, can't score. The can do damage on the Pk, and score goals shorthanded. Check the stats, they are bottom 5 in everything besides the above 2 categories. That is way more then a system problem.

They sucked playing that system! 5 on 5 the Habs have been brutal all year long.

The PK and PP is what made the team early on. Nothing to do with the players following a system.

[Chris]

And the last 5 years they were playing like all stars for the other coaches? I don't think so. This bunch has played poorly for years, under different systems and different coaches. The common factors are the core and the "leaders" on the team.

[Canajun]

Chris, the system has been basically the same for the last 5 years... it didn't work then and it isn't working now --> hang back, wait for a mistake by the opposition, counterattack, try and get a lead, then sit on it in that f***ing passive defensive shell with 1-man forechecking and the defense giving up the blue line and just BEGGING to be scored on. I've been watching every game for the last 7 years - I'm not blind.

Our play is MUCH too defensive/passive - except for a brief spell at the end of last year when Gainey was behind the bench and switched to a 2-man forecheck.

The players aren't so much lazy, as just disheartened and discouraged by being crammed a shitty approach to hockey down their throat. They are NOT having any fun out there. And it shows.

[ShortHanded]

Chris, the system has been basically the same for the last 5 years... it didn't work then and it isn't working now ....

The players aren't so much lazy, as just disheartened and discouraged by being crammed a *** approach to hockey down their throat. They are NOT having any fun out there. And it shows.

Exactly what I said earlier. If it's just the players, how come those same players go elsewhere (as we've seen in the past) and are suddenly better players...

Edited March 8, 2007 by ShortHanded

[Chris]

I agree that it is too passive. I agree that they should be forechecking with more players. But it's the coaches system, he talks the listen. That's how it goes.

I'll disagree slightly with the improved play under Gainey, they were simply playing for jobs in front of the boss.

My main point in all this is the players no matter who coached have been nothing but an 8 seed no matter what coach or system the past 10 years. People shouls STOP blaming the coach for the players lack of ability to play.

If someone has some different information or players had big offensive years, then show me. I know they have played the same with virtually the same numbers for the past 5 years.

[Chips]

Problem's not behind the bench; its on the ice: there is no leader to show the way, to make things happen that dictates the play. It should be Koivu, but he's not doing it. It should be Kovalev, but he's not doing it. Markov is too quiet a guy. Ryder is a trailer, Komisarek's too young, Higgins too. The only guy who looks like he's trying every game is Souray, but he's also taking dumb penalties and committing defensive blunders

So who does Carbo - or any coach - relies on when not one of the guys he has in front of him is playing a sound, urgent and reliable overall game? Right now the only player Carbo can seem to count on for a constant effort and a sense of urgency? Plekanec, Streit, Souray... that's about it. That's the best soldiers Carbo has under his hands right now. Its a wonder why we're not doing even worse.

This bunch is hard to motivate because they never had to get over the hump, to buckle down. Every time they hit a little bump, they slumped and got their way by getting a new coach. They never had to endure and realize they'll have to get out of it by themselves. The players gave up and waited for the coach to get the brunt of it.

Because they knew the raging impatient fans and maniacal medias would call for someone's head soon enough. All they had to do was duck and wait for the coach's head to be cut. The players can always hide behind stats, cliches and they're never accountable to anything, while the coach's lives or dies with the number in the team's PTS column.

It's about time that the players get the blame. I hope Gainey cleans the entire house this summer. Change the core, build around new players.

Well written KoZed.

There will be clean up; and look for players to be dealt around the draft this year; We may lose a few core players to land one or two keys to build around; thats my vote!; Carbo will stay.

[PB]

The CH were undersized and always short on talents during the pre-lock-out years,......poor drafting got them

there and their limited cash spending ressources to attract UFA kept them there.

Teams that had size and scoring talents in the old hooking permissive NHL had it all........we didn't so we used a defensive system to limit the damages.

Those were the conditions in the NHL (specially in the Eastern Conference), then came the newNHL with it's

zero tolerance on hooking, cross-checking, slashing and the elimination of the center line......nothing short of a revolution.......one that COULD instanteneously be taken to advantage by some teams (Canadien, BUFF etc) but not as easily by some others (PHY, TOR etc).

This revolution along with the new CBA was ALL was needed for the CH to move in fast-forward mode.

I was excited and didn't missed a single game during training camp of that year zero (last season).

Those pre-saison games where a first taste of the newNHL, Julien, the players, the referee, the spectators....

everyone was involved like they was no tomorow........the experimental datas in the end were extremelly favorable to me.....1) hochey was better than ever......2) our roster was ready to tango in this NEW league.

Since those games where part of the training camp, Julien was giving plenty of ice time to our prospects and plenty of rooms as well to our forwards to make things happen.

My most vivid impression of the newNHL was to see how unbelievebly fit and dangerous a line composed

of mid-sized fast skating players like Higgins-Plekanec-Perezhogin could be........I was extatic.....those were

only rookis.....our rookis......ready to shine immediatly...NOW !

My final impressions at the end of those pre-saison games in the newNHL was:

1) Offensive prowess matters as it never did before.

2) Speed and skills is the name of the game.

3) Youngs can graduate earlier if they can provide added offensive talents than the alternatives.

4) Teams should spread offensive talents throughout it's lines (3) and employ a suitable team strategy.

5) Dont exchange young offensive talents for grinders. (Marcel Hossa had been the best offensive player).

When the official season started Julien when back to the traditionnal pre-newLNH system for the CH.......like if nothing had happen.

He kept Dagenais, welcomed Murray over Hossa, used Sundstrom and nullified our scoring depth with it's regular use of a checking line + grinding line..........we ended up at the end of the season as one of the lowest scoring team in the East.

Had Therrien been here or Landy Ruff.....the starting lines could have looked that way.

Zednic-Koivu-Rider

Hossa, Ribeiro,Kovalev

Higgins, Plekanec, Perezhogin

Begin, Bonk, Bulis

Julien made tentative usages of the youngs and never used them as a unit-line.

In the end he got fired, Gainey emphasised more forechecking and had Bonk playing on the 4th while moved

Zednick on the third........with Gainey we moved a distance away from our traditional pre-lockout style.....and the team looked better and looked almost awsome in the playoffs.

This season Carbo brought back the counterproductive, miss-adapted and sterile defensive system again and as a result our evenstrenght game never looked good and scoring goals has never been so hard.........this is not the potential I saw our team to have upon entering in the newNHL last season..........and I think we had even more potential this season......specially having Huet right from the start and Souray with his league wide top chot.......Carbo's system never was adequate to the team......neither before nor after the slump.

An inadequat system is one thing but a rooki coach must also communicative and ready to re-evaluate his ways as the season progresses......I didn't have this impression in regards to Carbo.......I wonder what Gainey was doing this season.......isn't progressing the name of the game ?

Edited March 9, 2007 by PB

[shortcat1]

The CH were undersized and always short on talents during the pre-lock-out years,......poor drafting got them

there and their limited cash spending ressources to attract UFA kept them there.

Teams that had size and scoring talents in the old hooking permissive NHL had it all........we didn't so we used a defensive system to limit the damages.

Those were the conditions in the NHL (specially in the Eastern Conference), then came the newNHL with it's

zero tolerance on hooking, cross-checking, slashing and the elimination of the center line......nothing short of a revolution.......one that COULD instanteneously be taken to advantage by some teams (Canadien, BUFF etc) but not as easily by some others (PHY, TOR etc).

This revolution along with the new CBA was ALL was needed for the CH to move in fast-forward mode.

I was excited and didn't missed a single game during training camp of that year zero (last season).

Those pre-saison games where a first taste of the newNHL, Julien, the players, the referee, the spectators....

everyone was involved like they was no tomorow........the experimental datas in the end were extremelly favorable to me.....1) hochey was better than ever......2) our roster was ready to tango in this NEW league.

Since those games where part of the training camp, Julien was giving plenty of ice time to our prospects and plenty of rooms as well to our forwards to make things happen.

My most vivid impression of the newNHL was to see how unbelievebly fit and dangerous a line composed

of mid-sized fast skating players like Higgins-Plekanec-Perezhogin could be........I was extatic.....those were

only rookis.....our rookis......ready to shine immediatly...NOW !

My final impressions at the end of those pre-saison games in the newNHL was:

1) Offensive prowess matters as it never did before.

2) Speed and skills is the name of the game.

3) Youngs can graduate earlier if they can provide added offensive talents than the alternatives.

4) Teams should spread offensive talents throughout it's lines (3) and employ a suitable team strategy.

5) Dont exchange young offensive talents for grinders. (Marcel Hossa had been the best offensive player).

When the official season started Julien when back to the traditionnal pre-newLNH system for the CH.......like if nothing had happen.

He kept Dagenais, welcomed Murray over Hossa, used Sundstrom and nullified our scoring depth with it's regular use of a checking line + grinding line..........we ended up at the end of the season as one of the lowest scoring team in the East.

Had Therrien been here or Landy Ruff.....the starting lines could have looked that way.

Zednic-Koivu-Rider

Hossa, Ribeiro,Kovalev

Higgins, Plekanec, Perezhogin

Begin, Bonk, Bulis

Julien made tentative usages of the youngs and never used them as a unit-line.

In the end he got fired, Gainey emphasised more forechecking and had Bonk playing on the 4th while moved

Zednick on the third........with Gainey we moved a distance away from our traditional pre-lockout style.....and the team looked better and looked almost awsome in the playoffs.

This season Carbo brought back the counterproductive, miss-adapted and sterile defensive system again and as a result our evenstrenght game never looked good and scoring goals has never been so hard.........this is not the potential I saw our team to have upon entering in the newNHL last season..........and I think we had even more potential this season......specially having Huet right from the start and Souray with his league wide top chot.......Carbo's system never was adequate to the team......neither before nor after the slump.

An inadequat system is one thing but a rooki coach must also communicative and ready to re-evaluate his ways as the season progresses......I didn't have this impression in regards to Carbo.......I wonder what Gainey was doing this season.......isn't progressing the name of the game ?

do you have bob's phone number or email address? maybe you can apply for a coaching position

GO :hlogo: GO!

[smon]

shortcat, come on...the guy's raising serious points.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I often think that Gainey should step down as GM and take up the coaching position full time.

[PB]

shortcat, come on...the guy's raising serious points.

Thanks SMON,.....not life threatening serious but valid points,....at the minimum they

are in line within the tread started by Kaos and hopefully as interesting

and comprehensible as all the many posts preceding it.

Of course the subject as it unravel is now about the CH's debacle this season and, as previously

put forth by Kaos, the parts that have played the main actors in it,...Gainey, Carbo, the team.

It is not the feel good CH's type of topic that we were all hoping to talk at this time of the year.....but sadly it has come down to that......I doubt if any of us was expecting a non-playoff participation for our team this year.....a most unwanted turn of event.....but in the end a subject to explore and to talk about.

[The Iron Lung]

Carbonneau has done nothing to adjust to teams which adjusted to his style months ago. We were near the top of the league, good coaches adjusted, and Carbonneau has no response. Let's face it, he was a great defensive forward... he has no resume to be an NHL coach. The players have definitely quit on him and he's running out of people to blame.

[Chris]

He has 20 people he can blame everynight. The players. Whether the players have tuned him out, stopped responding, whatever, the bottom line is he is the coach and they are paid very well to play hard every night.

The difference now is Carbo isn't going anywhere, the players are.

I'm not sticking up for Carbo as a coach, I have a few things to complain about but he deserves a chance to prove himself and deserves the respect of his players.

To me it says more about the players then the coach when they don't perform.

[redondo]

I think it's a combination of issues here. I too wanted Carbo to succeed here so badly, and in fact it didn't really occur to me that he wouldn't, that's how aligned the stars seemed before this season. The body of work doesn't look good, but let's remember he's a 1st year coach, and if he's been anything as a player, it's a student of the game. Here's what I think is going on, in no particular order:

- Every time in this decade that the team has made the playoffs, it's been because of stellar goaltending. Now what we're getting now (especially from Abby) is crap, but I dont' remember this team making it to the dance in a LONG WHILE without a goalie strapping the team on his back and bringing them there

- Top end talent: only Kovalev has had the ability to be that, but I think those days are gone by. Koivu tries, god bless him, on most nights, but he's not the game changer he should have been before that injury in his rookie (I think) season. We need a game-changer on the offensive end

- the Kovalev issue. Nothing IMO has hurt this team as much as Carbo's wishy-washy handling of his "superstar". If you're gonna bench underperforming players, fine, but you gotta dole out equal penalties, and not shy away from a confrontation with an underperforming supposed team leader. Players see this and it is just the wrong message

- defensive talent. everyone on our D except for Markov to me is expendable, including Sheldon Souray. Where's the first pass? Skating out the puck? Clearing the front of the net? Punishing opposing forwards? etc. etc.

- system. No need to elaborate here, previous posters already gave an accurate account of where we're at with this.

I think this team did alright under Gainey not solely because he's such a great coach, but because he's also the GM - their feet were held to the fire, and they had to respond or ship out. Plus the goalie was hot once again, which always helps.

[Habs_Nation]

Carbonneau has done nothing to adjust to teams which adjusted to his style months ago. We were near the top of the league, good coaches adjusted, and Carbonneau has no response. Let's face it, he was a great defensive forward... he has no resume to be an NHL coach. The players have definitely quit on him and he's running out of people to blame.

Agree.. It's getting frustrating to know that Carb hasnt done anything in adjusting our system while every other team in the league has basically caught on to what our strategies are..

Not to mention the amount of drama taken place over the course of the year between players and coach. I'm against how Carb has dealt with these guys all season. It is no wonder our team is playing effortless out there, they have given up on him and the season.. I hope Gainey recognizes what has transpired in that dressing room and take action. Politics aside if Carb cant make adjustments on his end then frankly i dont wanna seem him back as the head coach of the Habs.. We got quality players that are goin to waist cause of him!