Fisher grades Habs offseason.

[OneSharpMarble]

I might as well not get Center Ice next season, I already know the Habs will miss the playoffs.

Every year, on every forum it seems, the same story is plastered everywhere. "Eastern Teams improve, Habs stand pat and are in dire straits!". Yet every year, it's those same teams Montreal ends up battling for a playoff spot. If they're so vastly improved by signing free agents to lucrative contracts, why aren't they vaulting to 3 or 4th in the conference? Chara and Savard in Boston! Forsberg, Hatcher, Rathje are in Philly! This year, as far as Toronto's supposed "vast improvement", I won't debate that Toskala isn't a decent netminder. Raycroft wasn't horrible last year. the problem there is that Toronto rode him for 70+ games. Brodeur he ain't. And if they ride Toskala for that many games, I would be willing to say the end result may very well be the same.

You'd think every team in the league signed a boat load of cloned Forsbergs, Heatleys, and Roys, and the Habs held a reality show tryout in Sudan to field a team.

Haha why change now our "do nothing" strategy has worked so well in the past 10 years

Here we come 7th-10th place!

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Classy Red hits the nail on the head. Trying as best as one can and coming up empty gets an E for effort but hardly an A for the score. I'm not mad at Gainey because I appreciate the attempt and the effort for sure.

Besides, BOb is going to pull a trade and we might have to wait for camp to find out. Just like Ribs last year. I figure they want to fully evaluate the team before making that decision. It'll be different this year. I predict this trade will involve highly ranked prospects that fail at camp and who will become relegated to the B list. Other teams may not be aware of the "A" prospect going into the Habs' grade "B" or "C" book. With our prospect depth bloated, don't be surprised if some of these moves are made. Throw Ryder in and maybe Pleks (This is an example. I don't want BOb to trade him) and you can trade for a big fish.

I have no idea what the names will be and it's possible that it may hurt. We all have our favorite prospect list. It may seem like a shame but if the player becomes redundant because of other players....?

TRUST

[brobin]

I don't see how getting Briere impacts our youth. We were not trading for him, we were simply paying him. We could still build on our youth and improve with a top center. We had the cap space for Briere, unless we want to spend it on others. If we are building around youth, we have lots of money to spend.

I don't think we are better with Hamrlik then Souray. We lost Souray and Rivet and in my view, Hamrlik is closer to replacing Rivet as a reliable defenseman.

I also don't think Souray was that bad defensively, plus minus is deceptive. He either won them or got them back in more games last year then he lost for them. The 5-5 play was horrid last year, Souray was only a piece. Hamrlik won't do much better if the forwards don't play better too. Keep in mind that Souray had much better numbers throughout his career.

As for Toronto, if you watch their games last year you see how they improved. Raycroft was brutal. Made Abbey look good. They also struggled all year with finding a winger for Sundin and they went and got one. Sure, it could all fall apart, but we are talking about odds. They improved their odds. We sat still. imo

I sure hope there is more to come from Gainey, but I hope it is not a Ribs for Ninny type trade. I think that was a disaster.

[Wamsley01]

I don't see how getting Briere impacts our youth. We were not trading for him, we were simply paying him. We could still build on our youth and improve with a top center. We had the cap space for Briere, unless we want to spend it on others. If we are building around youth, we have lots of money to spend.

I don't think we are better with Hamrlik then Souray. We lost Souray and Rivet and in my view, Hamrlik is closer to replacing Rivet as a reliable defenseman.

I also don't think Souray was that bad defensively, plus minus is deceptive. He either won them or got them back in more games last year then he lost for them. The 5-5 play was horrid last year, Souray was only a piece. Hamrlik won't do much better if the forwards don't play better too. Keep in mind that Souray had much better numbers throughout his career.

As for Toronto, if you watch their games last year you see how they improved. Raycroft was brutal. Made Abbey look good. They also struggled all year with finding a winger for Sundin and they went and got one. Sure, it could all fall apart, but we are talking about odds. They improved their odds. We sat still. imo

I sure hope there is more to come from Gainey, but I hope it is not a Ribs for Ninny type trade. I think that was a disaster.

I live in Toronto and watched the Leafs alot and the reason they lost was not because of Raycroft, or Sundin's lack of a Jason Blake type winger.

The Leafs have been propped up for 8 years by great goaltending, be it Cujo or Belfour after him. Raycroft was great in Boston, Why?

Because he had a great team in front of him. Put him in front of a pourous defence and you got pourous play.

Now Toskala walks in playing for a solid Defensive hockey team and now must PROVE that he is more than the system.

The Leafs lost lots of games last year because they lacked alot of talent, They WAY OVERACHIVED last season and Paul Maurice did an amazing job of getting them to work hard every night. They still are a bad defensive hockey team. Kubina/McCabe/Gill in their top 4?? Come on.

THey forecheck your ass off and hope it creates breaks. The problem being that they have ZERO FINISHERS. Look at their top forwards.

Tucker

Sundin

Wellwood

Antropov

Ponikoravsky

O'Neil

Stajan

Steen

Battaglia

Pohl

Kilger

So now you replace O'Neil with Blake and Bell with Peca and they have made huge strides?? Their whole season is banking on Toskala being able to steal games like Cujo/Belfour before him. So all this talk about the Leafs being signifigantly better is nonsense. They are still borderline to make the playoffs just like the Habs.

As far as overating our youth, go take a look at the Hockey News, or Hockeysfutures and see how they view the Canadiens prospects.

The Canadiens have one of the best systems in the NHL and the fruits are beginning to show. Who would you trade Higgins for on the Maple Leafs right now?

Kaberle, but that is it. What about Price? anybody on the Leaf roster you would trade straight up for Price? Lats? Would you trade a 19 year old who scored 16 goals for a 23/24 year old Stajan, Steen, Wellwood who scored less than that last season?

Every prospect is an if. But when was the last rookie who came in as a 19 year old and played like Lats for the Habs? Koivu?

When was the last time any 19 year old goalie accomplished what Price did as a 19 year old? Roy? Dryden?

Buy the Kool-Aid that the Torontocentric Canadian media blows up your ass. But watching 60-70 Leaf games per season makes it easy to see through the BS.

I prefer to read all the media reports, watch the games and make my own decisions.

Gainey said it would take 5 years and what is this? Year 4? THe talent is just beginning to surface. Relax and enjoy.

[kaos]

The majority of people on this board predict we'd be 4th-6th in the East before last season. They went half the season playing up to that potential and then choked. With more character, more depth and better 5v5 play, they have a better chance of snapping out of any losing skid they hit. I think they underachieved last season and with a slightly better roster this season they can do much better - definitely playoffs. They could also choke again and miss the playoffs - but I don't think they will.

Actually as most people remember, this team was terrible all season long 5 on 5, and only had a very good first 25 games due to a strong PP and even better penalty kill. Then there was the flu, the Higgins injury and the penalty kill and powerplay went for shit and the 5 on 5 continued to suck and the team fell apart. Its argueable that the team overachieved in the first part of the season and played to their potential throughout the rest of the season.....culminating in the embarrassing loss to Toronto in the most important game of the year

[Athlétique.Canadien]

THey forecheck your ass off and hope it creates breaks. 5 years and what is this? Year 4? THe talent is just beginning to surface. Relax and enjoy.

Wamsley01 deserves credit. Wamsley01 knows hockey

It's exactly what the leefs weakness was.

Edited July 12, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[BTH]

The majority of people on this board predict we'd be 4th-6th in the East before last season. They went half the season playing up to that potential and then choked. With more character, more depth and better 5v5 play, they have a better chance of snapping out of any losing skid they hit. I think they underachieved last season and with a slightly better roster this season they can do much better - definitely playoffs. They could also choke again and miss the playoffs - but I don't think they will.

Actually as most people remember, this team was terrible all season long 5 on 5, and only had a very good first 25 games due to a strong PP and even better penalty kill. Then there was the flu, the Higgins injury and the penalty kill and powerplay went for shit and the 5 on 5 continued to suck and the team fell apart. Its argueable that the team overachieved in the first part of the season and played to their potential throughout the rest of the season.....culminating in the embarrassing loss to Toronto in the most important game of the year

Ah, but look at the team. They easily have enough talent to make the playoffs and who on the team is lazy? Kovalev, maybe Ryder. That's about it. They shouldn't have too much controversy this year.

[Wamsley01]

THey forecheck your ass off and hope it creates breaks. 5 years and what is this? Year 4? THe talent is just beginning to surface. Relax and enjoy.

Wamsley01 deserves credit. Wamsley01 knows hockey

It's exactly what the leefs weakness was.

Thanks bro. I am sure there are alot of people on here who would disagree with you

[shortcat1]

Red Fisher grades the Habs offseason activity. Seems pretty generous with his grade, considering his remarks and considering the results. Probably should have been a D.

Gazzette Link

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...21-cd7a3bd39806

I was going to comment on Fisher's article but, with your opening assesment ('D') put a damper on that... so I won't bother... (nothing like unabashed negativity to sour a situation...)

GO :hlogo: GO![/b]

[OneSharpMarble]

Thanks bro. I am sure there are alot of people on here who would disagree with you

No finishers hey? Is that why they were fourth in the east in goals for last season?

[Wamsley01]

Thanks bro. I am sure there are alot of people on here who would disagree with you

No finishers hey? Is that why they were fourth in the east in goals for last season?

Oh you mean that 2 of their top 3 scorers were defencemen

Or that Tucker scored 70% of his goals on the PP by sitting by the side of the goal waiting for a 1 timer.

(Believe me he had about 60 chances to get his 15 PP goals)

Or that for every goal that Antropov/Ponikoravsky scored it took 5 glorious chances.

I guess Jeff O'Neil's 20 goals represents a fantastic finisher?

Battaglia/Pohl/Kilger all scored double digit grinder goals...but I guess Bonk, Johnson, Streit are good finishers as well.

I watched the games. I am not just looking at stats. The point is that if they could finish they would have made the playoffs.

Look at what the Leafs accomplished with lack of talent and HARD WORK!!!!!

That is why I credited Paul Maurice and I said they overachieved

But their roster is suspect. Look at the players who played on the top 2 lines. That was the POINT!

Sundin/Wellwood/Tucker/Antropov/Ponikoravsky/Steen

Stacked with great finishers isn't it. How did they possibly miss the playoffs with those powerful top lines?

Adding a Bell who has a terrible reputation and Blake who is a hard worker does not change much.

Their whole season will be about Toskala and how much he can push Raycroft. If Toskala does not carry them nothing will change.

Which is why I am not writing off the Habs because they did not get Briere.

John Pohl had a strong second half for the Leafs and outplayed Alex Kovalev in the last 30 games because HE WORKED HARD!

If Montreal works as hard as the Leafs they will beat them. But that is the Million Dollar question isn't it.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Wamsley01

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I was specifically referring to what went wrong with T.O. last year. Their biggest weakness I identiofied back as early as November was relentless over forechecking that led to turnovers. They would also get tired.

[InsaneHABSfan]

I see we have some Leaf fans on this board that can only criticize the Habs. Funny thing is that LEafs last year had a horrid penalty kill and they did not address it. They got a one time 41 goal scorer and some people here think he is going to duplicate his efforts, NOT. Toskala has never started a whole season for a SH***Y team and may find out how average he may be. (The Leafs are as good defensively as the Sharks??)

Sundin will be injured again as the Leafs will ride him with excessive minutes. Mr. Canopener and Pilon Gill are really fast and can catch the slowest player on the Habs. The LEafs second line is going to score 300 goals, their third line is going to score 200 goals, hahahaha. Oh I am so worried about the Center of The Universe. :puke:

Some of you guys are funny, as this Leaf team will be as pathetic as last years. Ya they got better by not signing a real center, and you think Wellwood is a really good second line center. I have had the misfortune of watching the Leafs for 37 years and nothing changes. Montreal may not have done much this year to address glaring needs, but lets not start to plan any parades for the Leafs yet!

Edited July 12, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan

[Chris]

Man you guys and this Toronto thing. Who cares they have both been mediocre at best for the last 10 years plus. The bottom line is Toronto outworks the Habs just about every game last year, only poor goaltending kept them close. Yes Toronto has improved, but they still have a poor D, Toskala is an upgrade but by how much.

The Habs will atleast be a harder working team and they will lean heavy on the youth. Do they have a shot at #8 seed. Maybe, alot of things would have to got here way. They have alot of holes also. Will the D be any better? Work ethic? Physical team? Can Huet play well for more then a few weeks at a time? What will 5 on 5 look like?

So stop perseverating on the Leafs. The Habs need to pick it up against everyone.

[smon]

I don't care about the Leafs.

As for the offseason, Fisher's given it a fair grade. A "C" is pretty much all you can call this offseason - the team lost a 26-goal scorer (although a defender) and two solid third line forwards - in return picked up a solid defender, a third line centre and a fourth line winger. It amounts basically to Gainey filling up holes left by departing players, not any additions to a forward core that still lacks consistent goal scoring, and a defensive core that needs a top 4 D.

[Wamsley01]

Man you guys and this Toronto thing. Who cares they have both been mediocre at best for the last 10 years plus. The bottom line is Toronto outworks the Habs just about every game last year, only poor goaltending kept them close. Yes Toronto has improved, but they still have a poor D, Toskala is an upgrade but by how much.

The Habs will atleast be a harder working team and they will lean heavy on the youth. Do they have a shot at #8 seed. Maybe, alot of things would have to got here way. They have alot of holes also. Will the D be any better? Work ethic? Physical team? Can Huet play well for more then a few weeks at a time? What will 5 on 5 look like?

So stop perseverating on the Leafs. The Habs need to pick it up against everyone.

I agree, the obsession with the Leafs is not healthy. When you are fighting with the Leafs for the last 40 years it means you probably are having a shitty year.

I am excited to watch the ascension of Price, Chips, Lil ####, Grabovski, O'Byrne and the further improvement of Komisarek, Higgins, Lats, Big ####, Pleks, Halak etc. If these guys fail to reach expectations for this team....big problems.

But I have not seen such an infusion of youth in the Habs since the late 80s. I was watching ESPN CLassic and they showed Sabres/Habs from 1990-91. Man, the Habs should have won more Cups.

The core of that team over 2 years was Roy, Corson, Richer, Lemiuex, Svoboda, Desjardins, Schneider, Keane, Gilchrist, Leclair, Skrudland, Cassels and Courtnall. All in their early to mid 20s.

I am hoping that the kids of now can represent something similar in the next 2-3 years.