End of Season Comments Anyone?

[Habsfan]

sundin is such a faceoff force. I'd rather if koivu and sundin wouldn't play together.

well, lets sign him first !!

Who's to say Sundin would even want to play on the wing?

[Wamsley01]

Who's to say Sundin would even want to play on the wing?

Who is to say Sundin wants to come here, who is to say Saku wants to play on the 3rd line etc etc.

Gainey had a vision of what he wanted to do when he tried to acquire him. Lets see if it is even a possibility.

The guy is a bigtime player that would make the Habs a huge force in the East and an instant Cup favourite.

As for faceoffs, it would be easy for Sundin to take big draws and play wing.

[BTH]

But if the Habs signed Sundin do you think they would put Koivu or Pleks on the 3rd line?

I am all for an impact winger that could be signed for a couple of years who has a lot left in the tank.

Shanahan does not look like that player to me. So I would go for the player that raise the team to another level

without rolling the dice on a 5-7 year big $$ deal.

I'm aware, but Sundin is just as close to retirement as Shanahan. I think that at centre we need a long-term fit and that at the wing, we could use a short-term LW like Shanahan. He would come at 4-5M for 1 or 2 years (the same sort of thing he did with NYR and was going to do with us) and would be a huge addition yet we wouldn't have to rely on him or cry when he goes.

Despite the age difference, Sundin and Koivu will probably retire at about the same age - if we lost them both together, we would have Plekanec, Chipchura and Lapierre as our top 3 centers. I think that's relying too heavily on two old players. On the wing, we've got plenty of young options like Latendresse, the Kostitsyns, Higgins, D'Agostini, Paccioretty, ...

Also, I think as dominant as Sundin is, he is a guy that works alone. He isn't the type of player you say "we need to get this guy some quality linemates and he'll light it up" though you'll hear Leafs fans say it constantly. Sundin and Kovalev (or any of our other talented wingers) wouldn't work well together, I don't think. In Toronto, he seems to work best with Ponikarovsky and Antropov - in other words, other tall forwards he can cycle the puck with. If we had a guy like Ryan Malone, Sundin would be great with him. But we don't, and I think he would really mess with the balance and chemistry with the team.

He would probably need to play with Higgins but so does Saku. Maybe with Latendresse and... we have no RWs for him. I'll try and compare the two line-ups and see if that makes any more clear for me.

Latendresse-Sundin-D'Agostini

Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev

Higgins-Koivu-Kostitsyn

(grinder X)-Chipchura-Lapierre (grinder X entails Kosto, Begin, Dandy, UFA, Streit, blah blah blah...)

The team looks stacked and an instant Cup favourite as you say. But if anything, it looks too stacked, and with too much depth. Too many big presences in the lockerroom. Too many guys that want to do it themselves. And then what if Latendresse or D'Ago (if it is even smart to use two 20 year olds on the first line, especially a rookie) get injured? We have to totally mess around with all our lines.

I'm not totally sold Sundin would make our team better than it already is. It is simply gaining two much in one basket without giving up enough.

Shanahan-Koivu-Kostitsyn

Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev

Higgins-Lapierre-Latendresse

grinder X-Chipchura-D'Agostini (we also have the option of using two grinders, or flopping Laps/Chips whenever we want)

To me, this is a much healthier and safer lineup. Maybe not as flashy, but depth all the way through. All 3 lines are balanced and there is never a scenario in which we have to strap two guys to Sundin's back.

I don't buy into the idea of moving any of Koivu, Sundin or Plekanec to the wing - though Plekanec does have some experience there, especially on the right. In my mind, if we have to re-adjust our whole team to accomodate one player, then that is not the right player for us. Shanahan fits right in and fills a need (plenty of needs really) and might come at half the price, without disrupting anything or risking anything.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well, Bob has pretty much said he won't pursue UFA defencemen and wants help at forward. Therefore the leading options would be these:

Sundin is bullet-proof. BTH may be overthinking this. The guy is one of the top C in the league. If players like Saks and Kovy want to win they will embrace him, and he them. As for the fear of he and Koivu retiring at the same time, this in no way implies that we shouldn't get Sundin. (It just means we'd have added a second elite player). We should do everything in our power to sign him on a 2-year deal. He would help to ease Saks out to pasture - which will eventually get ugly no matter what we do - and give Pleks more time to develop into a full-blown #1C. In short, he would single-handedly solve the problem down the middle in the short run and give us time to find longer-term solutions there, while also giving us a great chance to win right now. The guy does seem to love T.O., but Montreal may be an attractive alternative: it's geographically close, is a great rival and actually has a chance to bag him a Cup. Lots to like.

Rolston would represent an excellent fall-back option, although there are more intangibles there - e.g., what length of contract will he want (more than three years, forget it); he will be easier to overpay than Sundin; what happens to his game if/when he loses a step, etc.. But you have to love Rolston's numbers and versatility. He also seems tailor-made for Gainey's stated vision of a fast, smart, exciting hockey team. This seems a more probable outcome than Sundin to me, but he's definitely Option B.

I sense resistance to the Hossa scenario, which would see us paying a massive salary to lock him up long-term as a UFA. He will be hotly pursued by desperate and/or loser franchises such as Vancouver or Toronto, so overpaying him is guaranteed. Nonetheless, he would represent a long-term replacement for Kovalev, and might either free us up to trade Kovy for high-end help down the middle, or else give us a lethal added element on the wings to complement Kovy. This is Option C in my opinion.

Shanahan would have few long-term ramifications, but you do need to avoid signing broken-down vets. He had 46 points this year and 5 points in the playoffs - on a fine Rangers team. Those are NOT the numbers of a first-line winger. They are a danger signal that he's done.

You could always contemplate trades, e.g., packaging Kovy or young guns for Jokinen, etc.. But I'd be amazed if Bob isn't working with these three scenarios at the very least.

Edited May 8, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[saskhab]

If we add an impact forward, without losing any of our current wingers, guys like D'Agostini are heading back to Hamilton. Here are a couple of "impact forward" scenarios:

Sundin:

Latendresse-Sundin-Kovalev (remember Roberts-Sundin-Mogilny in TO?, this is kind of like that)

Andrei-Plex-Sergei

Higgins-Koivu-Lapierre/Dandy/Grabovski

Begin-Chips/Lapierre-Kostopolous

Jagr (no one is mentioning this possibility, he is a UFA):

Lats-Plexo-Jagr

Andrei-Koivu-Kovalev

Higgins-Grabs/Lapierre-Sergei

Begin-Chips/Lapierre-Kostopolous

Obviously a Hossa type scenario would be similar to the above Jagr scenario, but we'd be looking at guys like D'Agostini a bit longer because it'd be a long term issue and we'd have to look at cheaper options for down the line. Say goodbye to guys like Higgins, or bye to Kovalev after next year. That's a big commitment to make this summer.

A Rolston type scenario can be interesting. He's been successful in Minnesota as a winger, though in Boston back in the day he was a centre.

Rolston - left winger:

Andrei-Plex-Kovalev

Rolston/Higgins-Koivu-Sergei

Higgins/Lats/Rolston-Lapierre/Grabo/Higgins-Lapierre/Lats

Begin-Lapierre/Chips-Kostopolous

Rolston - centre:

Andrei-Plex-Kovalev

Lats-Koivu-Sergei

Higgins-Rolston-Lapierre

Begin-Chipchura-Kostopolous

I like Rolston as centre scenario, actually. There'd be 3 guys who could play all 3 positions on that line.

Edited May 8, 2008 by saskhab

[Wamsley01]

Well, Bob has pretty much said he won't pursue UFA defencemen and wants help at forward. Therefore the leading options would be these:

Sundin is bullet-proof. BTH may be overthinking this. The guy is one of the top C in the league. If players like Saks and Kovy want to win they will embrace him, and he them. As for the fear of he and Koivu retiring at the same time, this in no way implies that we shouldn't get Sundin. (It just means we'd have added a second elite player). We should do everything in our power to sign him on a 2-year deal. He would help to ease Saks out to pasture - which will eventually get ugly no matter what we do - and give Pleks more time to develop into a full-blown #1C. In short, he would single-handedly solve the problem down the middle in the short run and give us time to find longer-term solutions there, while also giving us a great chance to win right now. The guy does seem to love T.O., but Montreal may be an attractive alternative: it's geographically close, is a great rival and actually has a chance to bag him a Cup. Lots to like.

Rolston would represent an excellent fall-back option, although there are more intangibles there - e.g., what length of contract will he want (more than three years, forget it); he will be easier to overpay than Sundin; what happens to his game if/when he loses a step, etc.. But you have to love Rolston's numbers and versatility. He also seems tailor-made for Gainey's stated vision of a fast, smart, exciting hockey team. This seems a more probable outcome than Sundin to me, but he's definitely Option B.

I sense resistance to the Hossa scenario, which would see us paying a massive salary to lock him up long-term as a UFA. He will be hotly pursued by desperate and/or loser franchises such as Vancouver or Toronto, so overpaying him is guaranteed. Nonetheless, he would represent a long-term replacement for Kovalev, and might either free us up to trade Kovy for high-end help down the middle, or else give us a lethal added element on the wings to complement Kovy. This is Option C in my opinion.

Shanahan would have few long-term ramifications, but you do need to avoid signing broken-down vets. He had 46 points this year and 5 points in the playoffs - on a fine Rangers team. Those are NOT the numbers of a first-line winger. They are a danger signal that he's done.

You could always contemplate trades, e.g., packaging Kovy or young guns for Jokinen, etc.. But I'd be amazed if Bob isn't working with these three scenarios at the very least.

I don't want Hossa because I think that 8-10M per year is reserved for elite players only. You build around your 8-10M guy, you cannot build around Hossa.

He is a complimentary part in my opinion.

Sundin is my dream scenario, but I don't think it is going to happen. But with the idiots at MLSE, anything is possible. My fingers are crossed

Rolston, like you said is perfect for Gainey and Carbo's blueprint.

Shanahan is too high risk, for 2M I would roll the dice. Anything more, no thanks.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

Shanahan would have few long-term ramifications, but you do need to avoid signing broken-down vets. He had 46 points this year and 5 points in the playoffs - on a fine Rangers team. Those are NOT the numbers of a first-line winger. They are a danger signal that he's done.

Well said. Shanahan is finished. He's way to slow and can't keep up with the faster younger guys. I wouldn'T want him on my team.

Sundin is bullet-proof. BTH may be overthinking this. The guy is one of the top C in the league. If players like Saks and Kovy want to win they will embrace him, and he them. As for the fear of he and Koivu retiring at the same time, this in no way implies that we shouldn't get Sundin. (It just means we'd have added a second elite player). We should do everything in our power to sign him on a 2-year deal. He would help to ease Saks out to pasture - which will eventually get ugly no matter what we do - and give Pleks more time to develop into a full-blown #1C. In short, he would single-handedly solve the problem down the middle in the short run and give us time to find longer-term solutions there, while also giving us a great chance to win right now. The guy does seem to love T.O., but Montreal may be an attractive alternative: it's geographically close, is a great rival and actually has a chance to bag him a Cup. Lots to like.

Agreed. Unlike SHanahan, Sundin can skate, cna hit, can shoot and can pass. He's be perfect. The only problem is that I don't think he would come here. He said it himself a few months ago, that coming to Montreal would be like playing for the ennemy!

Edited May 8, 2008 by Habsfan

[Wamsley01]

Well said. Shanahan is finished. He's way to slow and can't keep up with the faster younger guys. I wouldn'T want him on my team.

Agreed. Unlike SHanahan, Sundin can skate, cna hit, can shoot and can pass. He's be perfect. The only problem is that I don't think he would come here. He said it himself a few months ago, that coming to Montreal would be like playing for the ennemy!

It wont take much for the idiots at MLSE to alienate him. They have done a fantastic job so far of turning his hometown discount last season

into a negative. The self serving idiots on the MLSE board leak all type of shit to the press for their own cause. If one of those blockheads

think that Sundin has to go, they will embarrass him to further their cause.

That franchise is a mess and I LOVE IT

They won't get Tavares because they will do something stupid and short sighted to ruin their chance.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

It wont take much for the idiots at MLSE to alienate him. They have done a fantastic job so far of turning his hometown discount last season

into a negative. The self serving idiots on the MLSE board leak all type of shit to the press for their own cause. If one of those blockheads

think that Sundin has to go, they will embarrass him to further their cause.

Good point!

[BTH]

The Rangers were good but they were a purely defensive team despite all their offensive weapons. The scoring of Jagr, Drury and Straka also went down. The only player that played at or above expectations was Gomez, who had experience in such a system with New Jersey. Our system is the complete opposite, and it would be fair to assume that Shanahan could go atleast 25/25 here. What more, he is another leader and the perfect mentor for Latendresse.

I do also love Rolston as an option. He basically brings the same qualities as Shanny, but he's younger, safer, faster and more versatile. He is basically untouchable though so I don't mention him much.

I still don't think Sundin will be worth it for us. he will definitely be great and he would probably go a point a game or better. But we would probably see decreased production from Kovalev, Plekanec, Streit, there would be limited opportunity for Koivu to top his mediocre season.

There is only so much icetime to go around and we can only promise two centers a very strong line. I don't think a gamebreaker or franchise player is necessarily what we need at this point. It is just that final piece to the puzzle (excluding any vet Gainey brings in at the deadline) that we need to make us a Stanley Cup contending team instead a President's trophy contending team.

I am intrigued by the Jagr option. Coming off a decent season that is still well below his standards, he won't be maknig the type of cash he made in Washington or NYR. it is also worth note that he is one of Plekanec's boyhood heroes, I think he would transform himself if he could get a chance to play on his line. He is simply a cheaper and probably lesser Hossa. Yet he has a better playoff reputation than Hossa not that I believe lpayoff reputations mean a thing.

This post is all over the place.

[l<OV4L3V]

Well Cliff Fletcher just fired Paul Maurice and Randy Ladoucer today

I'm sure he is NOT going to re-sign Sundin...so by all means, BG, please give Mats a big fat juicy one year deal in Montreal. I am almost certain that he will make it worth every penny. In his past four seasons he has had 75+ points. On top of that, it seems that Sundin wears off on the players who play around him and ups their game level just that much more. I think we are all dreaming on getting him though...

Shanahan..no thanks...

[Easy Ryder]

As i said in another post, i had hope Markov was injured, that would

have been a reason for his poor play in the playoffs.

But no he is at the world tournament and still play poorly there.

My theory is that he choke on pressure, could not play his better hockey

when it is most important.

Still very high trade value there, it would have to bring very high return, but

his play lead me to wonder about that possibility.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

As i said in another post, i had hope Markov was injured, that would

have been a reason for his poor play in the playoffs.

But no he is at the world tournament and still play poorly there.

My theory is that he choke on pressure, could not play his better hockey

when it is most important.

Still very high trade value there, it would have to bring very high return, but

his play lead me to wonder about that possibility.

Markov is an absolute key to our team. Trading him would be far riskier than (say) Kovalev or Higgins - two players who are routinely defended against any suggestion of a trade - because his overall contribution would be much harder to replace.

And he WAS injured. Maybe he is being truly heroic in playing for Russia. But that he's playing suggests these injuries were the kind all players play through, nothing more.

And so - you might have a good point. Here are his career playoff stats off Wkipedia:

01-02 4 pts in 12 games

03-04 5 points in 11 games

05-06 1 point in 6 games

07-08 4 points in 12 games

Numbers aren't everything, especially for a defenceman. But his last two playoffs have clearly been substandard for a #1 defenceman.

He should get one more crack, in my view, before he can legitimately be characterized as a guy who 'fails to raise his game.' So I don't think he should be traded, but we have no choice but to count him as among the question marks going forward when it comes to the riddle of transforming us into heavy-duty condenders, along with: can Price carry us through four series at brodeur-like level? Will Lats ever emerge? Is Higgins a scorer or a checker? Will either Kostytsin take a step from 'good' to 'great?' How quickly will age corrode Koivu's game? Can Kovalev do it again? Etc.

Edited May 10, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber