The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Agreed. The offer for Kovy would have to be damn sweet to let go of our only "gamebreaker/superstar" player. Even when Kovy was having a hard time last year, i said we should keep him. I still think we should keep him! That and the fact that both Kovy and Koivu will be in the last years of their contracts. We all now what that means! I think we can expect MONSTER seasons for both Kovy and Koivu! Yes...and it means we will be in the position of having to RE-SIGN those guys - in Kovy's case likely at more dough than he's making now (if he has another season comparable to this one). Saks will be what, 34, and Kovalev going on 37? You want Bob to sign a 37 year old Kovalev to (say) two years at $4-5 mil? It still seems to me that part of success, especially in a cap system, has to be knowing when to turn over veteran players; and I think it makes more sense to turn over Kovalev than Koivu, both in terms of likely return and in terms of team chemistry/intangibles. People scorn the idea of a (say) Kovy-for-Marleau deal, or Kovy-for-Tanguay, but frankly I'd consider this as the basis of a deal (sweetened with another player or picks) because these deals would give us higher-end assets into the longer-term. I'm with Wamsley, I want a year-after-year contender, not a single big push in a single year. And it seems to me that if you want that, you have to think about this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Yes...and it means we will be in the position of having to RE-SIGN those guys - in Kovy's case likely at more dough than he's making now (if he has another season comparable to this one). Saks will be what, 34, and Kovalev going on 37? You want Bob to sign a 37 year old Kovalev to (say) two years at $4-5 mil? Actually, Kovy just turned 35 in February, he'll be 36 next year. I have no problem offering Kovy a 2 year extension at 5 million$ per year(if he has another great year next year). Kovy is built like an OX. He didn'T play very hard when he was in his 20's, so he should have alot of gas left in the tank. If he has another 75-80 point season next year, I'd give him a 2 year deal. Kovy even said that he could play till 40, and i don't doubt him one minute! Look at Sundin, he's 37 and had a great year. It's easier for these BIG guys to stay in the NHL, cause they can take hits easier than smaller players. I'm with Wamsley, I want a year-after-year contender, not a single big push in a single year. And it seems to me that if you want that, you have to think about this sort of thing. I would also rather have a year-after-year contender instead of making a big push for one year, but I don'T think keeping Kovy around will hinder that for the Habs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 What in the world are you talking about? Why would gainey step down. When he came here, he said tht he had a 5 year plan to turn this team into a contender. We are in the 5th year of the Gainey era, and finally, this team is a contender. Why would he leave now? That's exactly my point. By "this season" I mean the upcoming 08-09 season. That would be Year 5 of the Five Year Plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 It isn't inconceivable that Bob might think of stepping down, what with the stress and the family stuff; plus the fact that we have turned the corner and he has set us up to be a contender for many years. There are no indications of this, and I'd be very surprised, but who could blame him? Trevor Timmins as director of Hockey Operations, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Maybe Bob will step down. And maybe Carbo will get hit by a bus. There seems to be about as much basis for either speculation. If we re-sign Kovy it will be as a 37-year-old, at over $4 mil/year. Questionable IMHO, but why beat a dead horse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Maybe Bob will step down. And maybe Carbo will get hit by a bus. There seems to be about as much basis for either speculation. If we re-sign Kovy it will be as a 37-year-old, at over $4 mil/year. Questionable IMHO, but why beat a dead horse? If we re-sign hiim next year, he'll be 36 (for more than 1/2 the season). Anyways, like I said, Sundin is already 37 and just finised a very good year. I have no doubt Kovy could be good until 38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 (edited) If we re-sign hiim next year, he'll be 36 (for more than 1/2 the season). Anyways, like I said, Sundin is already 37 and just finised a very good year. I have no doubt Kovy could be good until 38. Big difference between Sundin and Kovalev. Sundin's last 10 years : 78/76/78/75/72/80/74/73/83/74 Kovalev's last 10 years: 84/47/65/45/77/76/95/66/53/35 Sundin delivers the goods EVERY year. He does not need a slight from the Russian federation or a talk with his GM to produce. As much as everybody is back in love with Kovalev this season he is the SAME GUY who has dropped 4 stinkers in the last 10 years. Two of those times the team that got suckered in by his siren song bailed on his enormous talent. He is an enigma, and he always will be. So you can all choose to ignore the guy's history of ######ing the dog, I will not. Tough decisions are going to have to be made on both Koivu and Kovalev. That is the reality of the new NHL. Guys like Lamierello have been doing it for 15 years and at some point you have to cut ties, emotional or not. Now just because I am bringing up Kovy's history does not mean I am shoving him out the door, I just think there are too many factors to just make a decision on his future today. First, I would like to see him prove it again with another 80+ point season and I would also like to see what potential signings and prospects may replace him. Nobody is irreplaceable Edited May 7, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Arsene Wenger at Arsenal has a policy of only offering over-30 players one year deals at a time. It works out almost every time for him (can't think of when he's lost on this, actually). The bar can be raised in hockey, but it is an interesting policy, to say the least. I wouldn't tie up a skill forward like Kovy until he is 38 at 5m per, no way. But I still think it has to take a hell of a deal to replace him now. Indeed, through Johnny's recent less-than-amusing ramblings, he predicts that Koivu will be gone by Christmas. If he suffers through another season like this, indeed, we'll see how un-irreplaceable he is. Wamsley is beating that Sundin drum awfully loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 (edited) Arsene Wenger at Arsenal has a policy of only offering over-30 players one year deals at a time. It works out almost every time for him (can't think of when he's lost on this, actually). The bar can be raised in hockey, but it is an interesting policy, to say the least. I wouldn't tie up a skill forward like Kovy until he is 38 at 5m per, no way. But I still think it has to take a hell of a deal to replace him now. Indeed, through Johnny's recent less-than-amusing ramblings, he predicts that Koivu will be gone by Christmas. If he suffers through another season like this, indeed, we'll see how un-irreplaceable he is. Wamsley is beating that Sundin drum awfully loud. I live in T.O. and I see this guy play 60 times per year. He would be the best player on Montreal. The Habs would not have to commit to a 5-6 year deal, could probably get him for 6-7M on a 1-2 year contract and it would make them an instant contender and allow them to keep developing their kids at a leisurely pace. I think it is a no-brainer. But did the Leafs do enough to piss him off and make him want to leave. That is the question. Otherwise, I prefer him to stay in T.O. and keep them just competitive enough to stay away from Tavares. Edited May 7, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Keep it coming, you're starting to make sense somehow. Still have to control the bile rushing into my throat, but... By the way, you are cc'ing Bob these posts, aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Keep it coming, you're starting to make sense somehow. Still have to control the bile rushing into my throat, but... By the way, you are cc'ing Bob these posts, aren't you? It would take a while for me to stomach Mats, but the guy is an impact forward and him lighting up the Leafs 6 times a year would be worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I think next year we should let go Kovy and get a top guy (Vinny ) or someone else that isn't old. But we are waaaaaaaaayyy too ahead of ourselves here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I think next year we should let go Kovy and get a top guy (Vinny ) or someone else that isn't old. But we are waaaaaaaaayyy too ahead of ourselves here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 Sundin would be great but he isn't really what we need. I really believe we need a winger more than a centre. Shanahan looks like a perfect option to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I think next year we should let go Kovy and get a top guy (Vinny ) or someone else that isn't old. You do know that Vinny still has 1 year left on his contract with Tampa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 You do know that Vinny still has 1 year left on his contract with Tampa! Hence why he said next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Sundin would be great but he isn't really what we need. I really believe we need a winger more than a centre. Shanahan looks like a perfect option to me. But if the Habs signed Sundin do you think they would put Koivu or Pleks on the 3rd line? I am all for an impact winger that could be signed for a couple of years who has a lot left in the tank. Shanahan does not look like that player to me. So I would go for the player that raise the team to another level without rolling the dice on a 5-7 year big $$ deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 (edited) But if the Habs signed Sundin do you think they would put Koivu or Pleks on the 3rd line? I am all for an impact winger that could be signed for a couple of years who has a lot left in the tank. Shanahan does not look like that player to me. So I would go for the player that raise the team to another level without rolling the dice on a 5-7 year big $$ deal. Interested in your take on this. I say yes, move Koivu to the third. I'd have A. Kost with Sundin (I think he needs a pure offense-first winger to create space), off wing I don't know (Latendresse? D'Agostini?); S. Kost with Plex and Kovalev; Saku, Higgins and Latendresse? D'Agostini? 4th of Lapierre-maybe Chips or Smolinski at a big discount-Begin / Kostopolous. Or are you suggesting...moving either Plex or Saku if we got Sundin? Or converting Plex to a winger? Curious. Must say I'm warming to the Sundin idea. I thought about the Mahovlich lads last night, awake to see Stubbs echoing (or quoting someone on) this. A full year of Toskala should put Laffs well beyond Tavares. Edited May 8, 2008 by tokyohabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Must say I'm warming to the Sundin idea. I thought about the Mahovlich lads last night, awake to see Stubbs echoing (or quoting someone on) this. A full year of Toskala should put Laffs well beyond Tavares. if they dont sign sundin this summer, the leafs might as well start contract talks with tavares' mother( his agent...uh-loooo Lindros !!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I think Shanny would be a nice fit I have always been a fan of his, but he doesn't play centre so with Smokes gone (hopefully) who plays centre on the grinder line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Interested in your take on this. I say yes, move Koivu to the third. I'd have A. Kost with Sundin (I think he needs a pure offense-first winger to create space), off wing I don't know (Latendresse? D'Agostini?); S. Kost with Plex and Kovalev; Saku, Higgins and Latendresse? D'Agostini? 4th of Lapierre-maybe Chips or Smolinski at a big discount-Begin / Kostopolous. Or are you suggesting...moving either Plex or Saku if we got Sundin? Or converting Plex to a winger? Curious. Must say I'm warming to the Sundin idea. I thought about the Mahovlich lads last night, awake to see Stubbs echoing (or quoting someone on) this. A full year of Toskala should put Laffs well beyond Tavares. I am not sure what they would do. Would Saku be effective on the third line? Do they experiment with him playing wing? I wouldn't trade Pleks or Saku as Sundin would essentially be a 1-2 year experiment. Gainey had his sights set on Mats at the deadline, maybe he wanted to move Mats to the wing. I think Sundin could be a more effective winger than either of them. It would be an interesting scenario, that is for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Hence why he said next year. In any case, i'd be willing to bet 50$ that Vinny will NOT come to Montreal. I repeat, Vinny will not come to Montreal. Think about it. He gets to go to practise with sandals on his feet. It's warm all year round in Tampa. He gets to walk around the city, and almost nobody recognizes him. He can go to the restaurant and eat a nice meal in peace, and he makes 7 million$ per year. Vinny would never be able to do any of those things in Montreal. Wherever he would go, crowds of people would follow him. He's already won a Stanley cup and the Tampa Bay Lightning have already lost Prospal and Richards. Do you thik they'll let their best player go??? I don't think so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 (edited) I am not sure what they would do. Would Saku be effective on the third line? Do they experiment with him playing wing? I wouldn't trade Pleks or Saku as Sundin would essentially be a 1-2 year experiment. Gainey had his sights set on Mats at the deadline, maybe he wanted to move Mats to the wing. I think Sundin could be a more effective winger than either of them. It would be an interesting scenario, that is for sure Here are the lines I'd like to see for next year. S. Kosty - Sundin - Latendresse(his natural position) A. Kosty - Plekanec - Kovy Higgins - Koivu - D'Agostini Bégin - Lapierre - Kostopoulos Markov - Komisarek Hamrlik - O'Byrne Bouillon - Gorges 7th D-man: Either Valentenko or Carle. Price and Halak in nets. You could always switch the 1st and 2nd lines. One day the Plex line could be the first line and another game the Sundin line could be the 1st line. Edited May 8, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Here are the lines I'd like to see for next year. S. Kosty - Sundin - Latendresse(his natural position) A. Kosty - Plekanec - Kovy Higgins - Koivu - D'Agostini Bégin - Lapierre - Kostopoulos Markov - Komisarek Hamrlik - O'Byrne Bouillon - Gorges 7th D-man: Either Valentenko or Carle. Price and Halak in nets. You could always switch the 1st and 2nd lines. One day the Plex line could be the first line and another game the Sundin line could be the 1st line. I would like to see HIggins - Koivu - Sundin A. Kost - Plekanec - Kovalev as the top 2 lines. Maybe Lats instead of Higgins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I would like to see HIggins - Koivu - Sundin A. Kost - Plekanec - Kovalev as the top 2 lines. Maybe Lats instead of Higgins. sundin is such a faceoff force. I'd rather if koivu and sundin wouldn't play together. well, lets sign him first !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.