What to do with the defence?

[dlbalr]

The defence was the focus of today's HW Mailbag where 3 writers chipped in their views. Might as well open it up to the board for your takes as well. (If you haven't read the article, here are the questions we tackled:)

1) Who would be your 7th defenceman (assuming all are healthy): Alexandre Picard, Ryan O'Byrne, or someone from Hamilton?

2) In a typical game, how much ice time should each each defenceman get? (Out of 120 possible minutes)

3) Andrei Markov - would you offer him an extension right away or wait until later in the year/offseason?

What say you on these topics?

[BlueKross]

1) Who would be your 7th defenceman (assuming all are healthy): Alexandre Picard, Ryan O'Byrne, or someone from Hamilton?

2) In a typical game, how much ice time should each each defenceman get? (Out of 120 possible minutes)

3) Andrei Markov - would you offer him an extension right away or wait until later in the year/offseason?

What say you on these topics?

Q1- This is a toss up with those two. I wouldn't have a problem keeping eight. I would prefer a Wyman/ Dandenealt type in that role. Forward/defensemen combo- Wyman or say Brian Boyle

Q2- Don't care as long as first pairing get the lion's share, and time prorated through lower pairs

Q3- I sign him long term in Dec/Jan at reasonable rate/ I don't give a No Trade Agreement

[BCHabnut]

1. I really think that Weber and Carle deserve another look. Neither of these guys is making me think one way or the. So far this year, Picard is the better defenseman.

2. Time on ice has to go in order to Markov (healthy) Gorges, Subaan, Bieksa (whoops!) Hammer, Gill, Spacek.

3.You can't sign an elite player like Markov without a nmc. Start talking after he has played 15 games. Assess him well, and pay him equally well. 5.5 to 6 mill for 4 years.

[BlueKross]

1. I really think that Weber and Carle deserve another look. Neither of these guys is making me think one way or the. So far this year, Picard is the better defenseman.

2. Time on ice has to go in order to Markov (healthy) Gorges, Subaan, Bieksa (whoops!) Hammer, Gill, Spacek.

3.You can't sign an elite player like Markov without a nmc. Start talking after he has played 15 games. Assess him well, and pay him equally well. 5.5 to 6 mill for 4 years.

What you said is pretty accurate and I tend to agree with you. The NTC comment is just wishful thinking. I wish teams would not pass them out like they are peanuts and pretzels. They would save themselves a lot of grief. You have added Bieksa. I like that as long as Gomez's contract goes the other way maybe in a 2 for2. Gomez/O'byrne for Bieksa/player? Have I mentioned Byfuglien an ideal seventh defenseman. Anyway, whatever they do, and we all believe a defensive move is imminent, i would suggest we are having more problems up front with SCORING.

[dlbalr]

What you said is pretty accurate and I tend to agree with you. The NTC comment is just wishful thinking. I wish teams would not pass them out like they are peanuts and pretzels. They would save themselves a lot of grief. You have added Bieksa. I like that as long as Gomez's contract goes the other way maybe in a 2 for2. Gomez/O'byrne for Bieksa/player? Have I mentioned Byfuglien an ideal seventh defenseman. Anyway, whatever they do, and we all believe a defensive move is imminent, i would suggest we are having more problems up front with SCORING.

Vancouver's in cap trouble, no way do they take on Gomez's deal, especially for an expiring in Bieksa. A couple of us have discussed KB in the rumour thread, I'm not sure there's a fit since both teams are near (or over) the cap.

[BTH]

I could see O'Byrne getting traded for a 5th rounder or something. I'd prefer if we packaged him with another player for an upgrade but I don't see it happening.

[BlueKross]

I could see O'Byrne getting traded for a 5th rounder or something. I'd prefer if we packaged him with another player for an upgrade but I don't see it happening.

You could make Bieska work for two young guys, but why would you do that? your right, I can't make the Gomez numbers work unless you include Kesler or have a six/seven/ eight player deal. Not going to happen. I do believe we have to move some of our young assets or we will just lose them at the end of year. If you move them you want to up grade your permanent staff.

[l.moustakas]

You could make Bieska work for two young guys, but why would you do that? your right, I can't make the Gomez numbers work unless you include Kesler or have a six/seven/ eight player deal. Not going to happen. I do believe we have to move some of our young assets or we will just lose them at the end of year. If you move them you want to up grade your permanent staff.

To be honest, I have grown weary of this Bieska rumour. I simply don't get excited at the prospect of him on the team. At present, the team is rather set on D and, when healthy, are a fairly balanced group. I realize that many contracts expire at season's end, but it is still reasonable to expect Gorges and Markov to be retained while Spacek and Subban still have time left on their current deals. Then, there is always Weber, Carle, Tinordi and O'Byrne who will be knocking on the door to full-time NHL posts. Where Bieska, a UFA next year, and his significant cap-hit fit in is beyond me.

[dlbalr]

To be honest, I have grown weary of this Bieska rumour. I simply don't get excited at the prospect of him on the team. At present, the team is rather set on D and, when healthy, are a fairly balanced group. I realize that many contracts expire at season's end, but it is still reasonable to expect Gorges and Markov to be retained while Spacek and Subban still have time left on their current deals. Then, there is always Weber, Carle, Tinordi and O'Byrne who will be knocking on the door to full-time NHL posts. Where Bieska, a UFA next year, and his significant cap-hit fit in is beyond me.

Fans of the NBA are largely familiar with the concept of having value simply in an expiring contract, that's partly where the interest lies, I think. In the hypothetical I suggested in the rumour thread (saw fans on various boards hypothesizing such an offer) that would see O'Byrne/Moen go for Bieksa (which, as noted, doesn't work cap wise but it does for this point), the Habs benefit in theory by acquiring the better defenceman plus getting rid of a contract beyond this season. (And if he fits the system, then perhaps you extend him, who knows?) They then would bring up a Bulldog to take that player's place next year and lo and behold, you've got a little more cap space. In Vancouver's case, they shed a little cap space this year which is needed since they're over the cap, save for LTIR; they just have to "eat" a contract next year to facilitate such a deal.

I was afraid the NHL would skew towards this structure but it's certainly starting to look that way - expiring contracts are quickly becoming more of a commodity.

[Neech]

1. I really think that Weber and Carle deserve another look. Neither of these guys is making me think one way or the. So far this year, Picard is the better defenseman.

Picard definitely, at this point, and OB goes to Hamilton. If we want to have 8 D, bring Weber up to act as a utility forward and PP specialist. We need a shot for Markov to set up on the first wave, Subban on the second wave (or with Markov at times).

2. Time on ice has to go in order to Markov (healthy) Gorges, Subaan, Bieksa (whoops!) Hammer, Gill, Spacek.

Subban's been earning tops (often for both teams) in games of late. And he's one of the most dynamic players on the team. He deserves second spot after Markov, or the two could alternate. Gorges and Hammer are reliable people to have behind those first two. Gill and Spacek are generally solid, but they can be completely lost out there too. Save Gill for the playoffs, and try to keep Spacek healthy. Picard deserves to get a game or two hear and there (and he certainly will, with inevitable injuries to these old guys). By the way, this looks like a stellar D corps when healthy.

3.You can't sign an elite player like Markov without a nmc. Start talking after he has played 15 games. Assess him well, and pay him equally well. 5.5 to 6 mill for 4 years.

You won't be able to sign Markov for less than Pleks. He would be a premier free agent on the open market, but he only knows Montreal and likes it here, so maybe he'll give a small hometown discount. We've always treated (paid) him market value, and I expect us to try to keep him after we've seen him play healthy at Markov level for a number of games. I'd be happy with a 5 year 30-32 million, satisfied with 6 at 36-40 million. He could likely get 6-6.5 per year on the open market, maybe more. But he's someone we should really keep, or trade for a premier forward.

[saskhab]

I am whole heartedly against any plan to use Weber as a forward/PP specialist. He still has the potential to be a defenseman at the NHL level, and will be best served by honing his defensive skills at the AHL level.

Picard vs. O'Byrne is really not of great consequence... and therefore I defer to the guy with the cheaper cap hit and more NHL experience. Whatever the benefits one might argue for O'Byrne (which I don't think can be backed up with any real evidence, but let's assume for a second that there is some), I don't think anyone can really argue that he provides close to 150% the value that Picard does, and that's what we're looking at here: we could use the space later on for a more substantial acquisition, and therefore Picard makes the most sense. $300k of cap savings on it's own provides the ability to add about a $1.5m player at the deadline, or the difference between a $2m and a $3.5m player. Neither Picard nor O'Byrne have much long term value... their value is simply for this year.

[Habsfan]

1) Who would be your 7th defenceman (assuming all are healthy): Alexandre Picard, Ryan O'Byrne, or someone from Hamilton?

I'd go with O'byrne. We need his size and he's still young (25years old). I thought he was playing pretty well before he was benched, which is unfortunate for him.

2) In a typical game, how much ice time should each each defenceman get? (Out of 120 possible minutes)

Your top two d-men should bet between 22 and 25 minutes per game

Your second pairing should get about 18 to 20 minutes per game

and your third pairing should get about 15 to 18 minutes per game!

3) Andrei Markov - would you offer him an extension right away or wait until later in the year/offseason?

I'd make a 25 million$/4 years offer to Markov IMMEDIATELY. We NEED him. He is without a doubt the most important player on this team!

[BCHabnut]

Picard is really making a case for himself to be the number 7. I have been quite happy with his play. It might be time to give up on O'Byrne. I would rather give Carle or Weber a try. One thing I always think about is left or right handed. Which side do they play? Gorges seems to like the right side. He and Gill are a combo. No question. Marky and Subaan have to play together. I hope. So... Should Spacek be the 7th Defenseman? Play Hammer with someone that likes the right side and use Spacek on the left side where he belongs. We all know he is not comfrtable on the right side and after a year, he still isnt.

Markov Subaan

Gill Gorges

Hammer (one of O'Byrne, Carle, Weber)

Spacek

The only problem with this is that Picard has played really well and deserves to be in the lineup. I would just like to see what Spacek can do on his natural side for a year

[saskhab]

O'Byrne plays right side, as do Carle and Weber. Picard plays left side.

Spacek is a right side guy for us right now. That might change next year, but for this year he's definitely a righty, along with Subban and Gorges. Left side is stacked with Markov, Hamrlik, and Gill.

[Habsfan]

I don't know if any of you agree with me, but I think Spacek was by far the worst guy on the ice for the Habs last night against the Isles. He made too many mistakes, and too many weak plays. This is unacceptable for a veteran who's making close to 4 million$.

I would sit him down for next game, maybe that'll wake him up a little!?!?!