CoRvInA Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 As I was seeing the highlights of the not so spectacular Panthers vs Habs games. I found myself caught in my thoughts.... as I gazed at Gionta in slow-motion scoring his gutsy, talented and albeit lucky rebound goal. Gutsy because at 5foot 6, you have to have major 'cojones' to venture anywhere near the blue paint. And yet, as those images passed by my retinas... I pondered what if Gionta was playing for free... (cue Squeeeeking record scratching noise!!) Yes, what if all the players on the Habs team were playing purely for the love of the game... wouldn't that goal be even sweeter?!?! And I admit, that a chill of human-empowering sensation ran through my spine! But whatever your opinion, the question merits a reiteration (its been discussed countless times.. but maybe not since the fall of the Soviet Union)... What if, say the NHL had a policy where each player, coach and official had to have an off the ice job, where u guaranteed you punched in 40 hours a week. And you were remunerated according to your daily job remuneration.. etc etc... Wouldnt that screw up everything now! In the end we would be left with 1930-50s level hockey playing with jolly and inspiring teams that would fight to remain in the Premier league, along with beer bellies and drama and fist fighting stories across the continent. Then my thoughts arrived at this... So, if we dont want 1930s hockey then why the hell do we still play on 1930s size rinks with a ######edly hard puck and boards that crack legs, arms and skulls??!?!?! Hockey players today occupy more room and space than ever before on the rink, and now we even have 4 officiating reffs on it!!! So is the fragility of this league and professional sport, so apparent in nature... that the issue of changing the size of the rink immediately becomes a non topic for the league and owners??!?! So What, if we lose 500 seats in the resizing. Isn't the evolution of the game more important!?!? And if that isn't the intent, why can't the safety of our players, who earn millions and make others earn millions, be the motivational purpose?!?!... Will we have to wait for Crosby or Ovechkin to retire prematurely for this to happen??! I wanna know how many concussions and game ending incidents occur on European rinks, and compare that to American Garage leagues through to the NHL. Enough skewed interpretations... Make this game the best in the world, make it the best sport in the world, why does the all mighty dollar stand against all things right in this world? Go habs Go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) A few more concussions in the past week.... add Tanguay to the indefinite list of injured. This wont ever stop? But what even more pisses my utopian view of Hockey...Is a play like what Matt Cooke just did on Tyutin. This play is the embodiment of what has no grounds to exist in Hockey ...in any way you see it... I once said i wanted Cooke in my team... and not only now do I drastically want to eat my words (add Markov injury) but I believe this player needs to go under psychological evaluation or be sent to an Army barricade to get under the controls of an unmanned plane and go shoot missiles at unarmed civilians. This man has no conscience of what human decency or respect means let alone player ethics... Im sorry but If I ever see him on the street Ill spit on him! He has all the time in the world... clearly sees Tyutin numbers and shoulder hits while his skates are no longer on the ice. This man is deranged! or he is an Idiot or both! Edited February 9, 2011 by CoRvInA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Cooke got 4 games at least...I thought that was a bit steep but the repeat offender element came into play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I dunno, I thought Cooke should have gotten 10 games myself. It was blatent hit from behind, left his feet, it wasn't an example of the other player turning his back, he was turned for a good 5 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I dunno, I thought Cooke should have gotten 10 games myself. It was blatent hit from behind, left his feet, it wasn't an example of the other player turning his back, he was turned for a good 5 seconds. It looked to me that Tyutin turned which means he could (should?) have seen him coming. I know it sucks to blame the recipient but considering that often happens when discipline is handed out, 4 seemed steep by that logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Cooke got 4 games at least...I thought that was a bit steep but the repeat offender element came into play. When was the last time Matt Cooke was actually suspended? From what I can tell, it was January 2009, so the repeat offender moniker drops. The NHL is ultimately responsible for anything that happened to Tyutin, though... Cooke should've been suspended for kneeing Ovechkin on the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 When was the last time Matt Cooke was actually suspended? From what I can tell, it was January 2009, so the repeat offender moniker drops. Whether it's officially the repeat offender tag or not, the bias is still there on Campbell's part. Also, judging from the forfeited salary ($87,804), it is still in effect here as using the repeat offender formula yields that forfeited salary. Finally, learning these blasted formulas actually comes in handy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Here again a surprise for me... So you mean Brian, that there is a rule that states if you see the player coming you're warned not to turn your back otherwise there is a loop in the rules for the offender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Here again a surprise for me... So you mean Brian, that there is a rule that states if you see the player coming you're warned not to turn your back otherwise there is a loop in the rules for the offender? It's not a written loophole per se, but if the player is deemed to contribute to his own misfortune, the offending player (the suspendee) often gets away with a slightly lesser punishment. In Tyutin's case, the league could potentially have seen that Tyutin did see him coming and put himself in that situation; thus, some blame falls to him. Not saying I agree with it but that seems to be the way suspensions get handed out sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 It's not a written loophole per se, but if the player is deemed to contribute to his own misfortune, the offending player (the suspendee) often gets away with a slightly lesser punishment. In Tyutin's case, the league could potentially have seen that Tyutin did see him coming and put himself in that situation; thus, some blame falls to him. Not saying I agree with it but that seems to be the way suspensions get handed out sometimes. Yes I know you don't agree with it, I was asking for that exact explanation you gave me.. In dlbalr we trust! Ok I have to Say this now... Horton coming after Subban?!??! HELLO Pierre Gaultier !!!!! Bring Alex Henry up now!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If Henry comes up to take on Boston as some are calling for, they'd have to waive him to get him back down there. It'd be hard justifying taking away Hamilton's captain for 1 game of potential retribution. (If you're talking more long term though, that's another story.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 If Henry comes up to take on Boston as some are calling for, they'd have to waive him to get him back down there. It'd be hard justifying taking away Hamilton's captain for 1 game of potential retribution. (If you're talking more long term though, that's another story.) I am of an old timer mentality... I want toughness... Moen and Wiz are not giving enough.. GILL didnt do a thing when PK was getting clobbered... like Bergy said on antichambre Gill was picking up gloves! Pyatt Spacek Hammer etc all got manhandled.. Only Pouliot was able to save face I've seen Henry land pile-hammers to a player just for skating too close to PK in Hamilton. I want Henry and another player permanently doing their part. Play Henry as a 7th Dman (forward 5 min on ice) and do PK duty.. Michel Terrien, Mario Tremblay and Bergie were Unanimous. What happened yesterday is UNACCEPTABLE... Do we understand that Horton was after PK not Thornton... HORTON For F sake!!! The rest of the teams are gonna use the same tactic go after Carey Price and PK in the first 5 min and u will have the Habs on their heals. This is enough we got 19 days to upgrade our toughness... ENOUGH is ENOUGH, I am ashamed of what happened yesterday... Now I have to go talk to my Bruins loving colleague... FOR F SAKE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Does montreal have the talent level to support a 6-8 minute four line? I think it could. A line of Pyatt/White/ random goon maybe. This is not a indepth analysis or anything, but did you see what Boston did last night, their fourth line took out montreals #1 line. Montreal, really has no way to trade players, their aggitator is their top pairing D man, you never wanna trade him. You want to have a 3, 4th line player drag a 1st line player to the penalty box with them. Some are going to say, the habs are only a few pts back of 3rd in the east, and they have injuries, last night was a fluke occurance, and I agree with that. I just think the habs speed game cannot win out, if not supplemented by a grinding, fiesty, borderline cheapshot fourth line. The habs have team toughness, Spacey and Hammer took their licks, I'm not calling them soft by any means, but remember when Souray would go after anyone who touched the goalie, or any player on the team. I for one miss Sourays toughness, I would love to see a guy in that mould, someone who tosses the 2 minute instigator penalty out of the window in favour of intimidation (not like they ever call instigator penalties anymore anyway). Gill is a big body, but he doesn't play huge, Wiz and PK are about the only physical d-men still on the habs. I'm sure there are lots of teams out there who envy the habs skill and speed, I just don't think they'll be able to maintain their skill and speed when the whistles go away in close games, LIKE they always do and in the playoffs good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I am of an old timer mentality... I want toughness... Moen and Wiz are not giving enough.. GILL didnt do a thing when PK was getting clobbered... like Bergy said on antichambre Gill was picking up gloves! Pyatt Spacek Hammer etc all got manhandled.. Only Pouliot was able to save face I've seen Henry land pile-hammers to a player just for skating too close to PK in Hamilton. I want Henry and another player permanently doing their part. Play Henry as a 7th Dman (forward 5 min on ice) and do PK duty.. Michel Terrien, Mario Tremblay and Bergie were Unanimous. What happened yesterday is UNACCEPTABLE... Do we understand that Horton was after PK not Thornton... HORTON For F sake!!! The rest of the teams are gonna use the same tactic go after Carey Price and PK in the first 5 min and u will have the Habs on their heals. This is enough we got 19 days to upgrade our toughness... ENOUGH is ENOUGH, I am ashamed of what happened yesterday... Now I have to go talk to my Bruins loving colleague... FOR F SAKE!! I am embarrassed as well as you Corv, I am also infuriated at some articles I read in a boston newspaper, bemoaning the habs lack of want to fight, one reporter actually said PK had screws loose emotionally. One hand he's saying PK wouldn't be goaded into a fight, and the next calling him a loose screw emotionally. Reporters wonder why fans are losing faith in print, it's because bloggers do way better analysis and actual journalism, sorry went off on a tangent there. Teams are going to continue going after PK all season, because they know Gill is not going to do anything, they realize the team moves through PK, as much as they bitch about his mouthiness, they realize what a huge part of the team he is with Gorges and Markov out, I do not want Subban to fight, screw that, give the opposing team what they want? Unless he's dragging Crosby, Giroux, Ovekchin with him, it's never going to be a fair trade. CC had a great reply in another thread about how the game is reverting back to the crappy pre-lock out hockey, and I agree and weep, cause this is a post-lockout team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 What do you mean? There weren't any redicolous hooking or holding penalties. That's what the new NHL was about, speed and skill. Fighting has nothing to do with speed and skill. There were 14 goals scored last night, the new NHL wanted more scoring and there you have it. I haven't seen an enormous about of hooking and holding coming back into games. The habs are just small and soft. That doesn't mean the Bruins can't build a big tough team. Theya ren't hooking and holding more that anyone else. they play the same style as the habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I agree with Bar, but chris points out something true... I don't think CC meant it quite like that (havent found his post yet) but pre lock out there were more cheap and lazy hooking and tripping calls... YEsterday there was an Angry team that not only wanted to win but HURT us physically and emotionally... The bruins were even throwing punches when our players had fallen. And More importantly Price and Pouliot held off when they had their players on a disadvantage. Im so going to shout that to my Bruin loving colleague when we meet for lunch... That was very low class crap IMO! It's now a matter of playoff survival.. lastnight's bruins match is in the past for me... I'm focused on what's needed to bulk up and mitigate the onslaught come the playoffs. No more bullying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It wasn't about hooking and holding it was the dirty stuff. -Price being crosschecked by Lucic in the crease. -Hit from behind on Wiz that started all the mess. -Hammer having his skates kicked out from under him in the corner while being bashed into the boards. -Elbows to the face along the boards. -Horton on top of Subban trying to break his head. -Punches while the Habs player was on the ice. There was all kinds of this stuff going on. We stood up for ourselves but save for Pouliot everyone else left that game with a bloody face. The strategy of hammering Subban has happened before but it was bad last night and we had nobody to effectively say, "stop it or else". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That stuff happens all the time. That isn't the new NHL. the problem is that as a habs fan those things are more noticable when your team is on the wrong end of things. Think back, how many times did Theo, Hacket, Huet etc. get run? All the time. It's NO ONE from the habs ever stood up and stopped it. Roy would have never been run like that, those teams had team toughness and wouldn't stand for that BS. If your going to lay down and get taken advantage then shame on you. The team needs to get bigger and tougher. The don't necassarily need a goon, they need more 3rd and 4th liners like Moen. They need 1 Dman to clear out the front of the net. You think Pronger would let his goalie get run or cross checked. Never will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It wasn't about hooking and holding it was the dirty stuff. -Price being crosschecked by Lucic in the crease. -Hit from behind on Wiz that started all the mess. To be fair, Price gave Lucic a few cross checks before Lucic went after him - I only noticed that this morning, that explains the 2 minutes he got there. As for the Marchand bump on Wisniewski, I actually thought he let up a bit - still a penalty for a hit on an icing but if Marchand really wanted to hurt him, he'd have hit him a lot harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) To be fair, Price gave Lucic a few cross checks before Lucic went after him - I only noticed that this morning, that explains the 2 minutes he got there. As for the Marchand bump on Wisniewski, I actually thought he let up a bit - still a penalty for a hit on an icing but if Marchand really wanted to hurt him, he'd have hit him a lot harder. Its not about the gravity of the actions... its the actions themselves... the fact they didnt think twice about whether or not to go through with them... and ultimately the reaction from the Habs! Lucic should of spent the night in the penalty box for fighting.. but he didnt ... he ended the game with a +5 means not only did he have 3 points, but he was on the ice for 2 more!.. Horton had 5 points... Edited February 10, 2011 by CoRvInA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd be curious as to what PG and JM think. I mean they have to see that the habs have liberties taken against them the last two seasons, and they have not addressed it with player moves. Is it a concern with them, do they see it as a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Does montreal have the talent level to support a 6-8 minute four line? I think it could. A line of Pyatt/White/ random goon maybe. This is not a indepth analysis or anything, but did you see what Boston did last night, their fourth line took out montreals #1 line. Montreal, really has no way to trade players, their aggitator is their top pairing D man, you never wanna trade him. You want to have a 3, 4th line player drag a 1st line player to the penalty box with them. Some are going to say, the habs are only a few pts back of 3rd in the east, and they have injuries, last night was a fluke occurance, and I agree with that. I just think the habs speed game cannot win out, if not supplemented by a grinding, fiesty, borderline cheapshot fourth line. The habs have team toughness, Spacey and Hammer took their licks, I'm not calling them soft by any means, but remember when Souray would go after anyone who touched the goalie, or any player on the team. I for one miss Sourays toughness, I would love to see a guy in that mould, someone who tosses the 2 minute instigator penalty out of the window in favour of intimidation (not like they ever call instigator penalties anymore anyway). Gill is a big body, but he doesn't play huge, Wiz and PK are about the only physical d-men still on the habs. I'm sure there are lots of teams out there who envy the habs skill and speed, I just don't think they'll be able to maintain their skill and speed when the whistles go away in close games, LIKE they always do and in the playoffs good luck. This is a good, balanced post. I agree that a more bad-assed 4th line that can mete out some punishment would be a good idea (and perhaps an achievable one before the deadline). And bringing up Henry as a semi-regular is also a good idea; in his cups of coffee with us he always seemed competent to take a few NHL shifts on a nightly basis. Clearly, we're not going to reconstruct our team into a bunch of goons, but one or two players can help to shift the overall team image in this respect. As for clutching and grabbing, to me the Devils' game was a bit of a signpost that it's creeping back; and in the playoffs it never went away. But as for dirty, career-jeopardizing play, that's at as high a level as it's ever been. It's stupid, it's disgusting, and it's unacceptable. Look at that nauseating Crosby hit - they issued no suspension because they didn't think the hit was 'intentional.' Well, try that with a judge if you 'accidentally' run someone over. Arbitrary and idiotic. I find it amusing that defenders of 'The Code' position themselves as upholding old notions of virtue and honour, but probably hoorayed unanimously when the Bruins kept pummelling habs' players who were either down or hurt. Pouliot demonstrated a far greater allegiance to this 'Code' when he did the decent thing and stopped pounding his man. For that matter, when Bill McCreary Jr laid out Wayne Gretzky with a legal open-ice hit he was roundly condemned. The NHL actually altered how it was calling abuses in the face-off circle at Sather's request because 'The Kid' was getting carved up night after night. There was a time when the 'Code' said: protect your star players. Things - including this mythical 'Code' - have changed. For the worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'd be curious as to what PG and JM think. I mean they have to see that the habs have liberties taken against them the last two seasons, and they have not addressed it with player moves. Is it a concern with them, do they see it as a problem? If they didn't well last night could not be more clear! (the positive aspect of this happening) I personally think they have always known this... But the question lies (and related to this thread) do they see that as a priority in their views to what the Habs need presently and in the future? The way that JM went to talk to The refs after this game tells me... that JM believes last night game was a fluke and in part mismanaged by the refs... something that shouldn't repeat itself. If thats the case then I pray for ways to lessen our suffering... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12383098 I wonder if this visual therapy to lessen physical pain can be used for emotional pain. Meaning we would still have to watch the Habs play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If they didn't well last night could not be more clear! (the positive aspect of this happening) I personally think they have always known this... But the question lies (and related to this thread) do they see that as a priority in their views to what the Habs need presently and in the future? The way that JM went to talk to The refs after this game tells me... that JM believes last night game was a fluke and in part mismanaged by the refs... something that shouldn't repeat itself. If thats the case then I pray for ways to lessen our suffering... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12383098 I wonder if this visual therapy to lessen physical pain can be used for emotional pain. Meaning we would still have to watch the Habs play! I seem to recall somewhere that PG has a previous history of seeking big, strong players - more of a believer in this than Gainey, apparently. I can't confirm that, but if it's true then for sure he is aware of the issue and looking to address it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 I seem to recall somewhere that PG has a previous history of seeking big, strong players - more of a believer in this than Gainey, apparently. I can't confirm that, but if it's true then for sure he is aware of the issue and looking to address it. Oh lets hope so my man! lets hope so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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