The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Well, the PP looked pretty good tonight. Commandant is onto something when he says we have to at least give the new coach a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 We need more of what Petry did last night. Even the crappy announcers noticed...the penalty killers were so focused on Subban taking the shot that they didn't expect Petry to take it and they left him wide open. PK's not going to score when they focus on him like that, but if the others can, they'll have to stop with the laser-focus on Subban, and then Subban becomes dangerous again. Also - Petry/Subban looked far more dangerous than Markov/Subban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 We need more of what Petry did last night. Even the crappy announcers noticed...the penalty killers were so focused on Subban taking the shot that they didn't expect Petry to take it and they left him wide open. PK's not going to score when they focus on him like that, but if the others can, they'll have to stop with the laser-focus on Subban, and then Subban becomes dangerous again. Also - Petry/Subban looked far more dangerous than Markov/Subban. With a five on four or four on three some one is always open on the pp. Teams have been taking away the shot from PK for some time now. Yes Petry was open but the goalie stops that shot in his sleep if DD is not parked directly in front of him with the perfect screen. THATS what has to happen more, regardless of who is teeing it up. Good job by DD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Well, the PP looked pretty good tonight. Commandant is onto something when he says we have to at least give the new coach a chance. ya give the new coach a chance to put together a powerplay that has subban Petry markov beaulieu now all they have to do is start the PP with either combo and split the time evenly... way to go coaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 With a five on four or four on three some one is always open on the pp. Teams have been taking away the shot from PK for some time now. Yes Petry was open but the goalie stops that shot in his sleep if DD is not parked directly in front of him with the perfect screen. THATS what has to happen more, regardless of who is teeing it up. Good job by DD. There's some truth to this, too. It's also not something new -- DD's powerplay goal this season against Boston was scored by going to the net like that. It surprised me when he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 So was Sourays when the habs had him blasting away scoring 25 goals.......best powerplay in league was very predictable. it was not as predictable as you think, because for every ounce of fear in the Souray bomb that year, there was an equal fear that if left alone on the boards, Kovalev would skate to the hashmarks and fire a laser into the top of the net, which he did a multitude of times. I've stated this difference before when referencing our previous PP glory to the current edition, problem is we could easily re-create that double edged fear with Pacioretty or Galchenyuk in the same spot Kovalev was, doing the same type of damage with their shots, no clue why it isn't at least tried out for a few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 it was not as predictable as you think, because for every ounce of fear in the Souray bomb that year, there was an equal fear that if left alone on the boards, Kovalev would skate to the hashmarks and fire a laser into the top of the net, which he did a multitude of times. I've stated this difference before when referencing our previous PP glory to the current edition, problem is we could easily re-create that double edged fear with Pacioretty or Galchenyuk in the same spot Kovalev was, doing the same type of damage with their shots, no clue why it isn't at least tried out for a few games. I agree totally. And btw, Max got one just like you depicted against the Pens. Kovy style. While we are comparing the two. One has PK and Max. The other, Souray and Kovy. Both had Markov. The one that had Saku was tops in the league, the one that does not sits 23rd or worse for what 3 seasons? Saku not enough credit ? ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 I agree totally. And btw, Max got one just like you depicted against the Pens. Kovy style. While we are comparing the two. One has PK and Max. The other, Souray and Kovy. Both had Markov. The one that had Saku was tops in the league, the one that does not sits 23rd or worse for what 3 seasons? Saku not enough credit ? ha! no i think it just can't be replicated or doesn't work for the small simple but 100% true fact that markov can't feed PK a one timer when he's on the left and PK on the right because PK is right handed and contrary to that souray was left, so was streit etc.... pk and markov spend half the time switching spots crossing over skating around trying to open it up, all that valuable time just wasted... we can try and replicate it on the other side with 2 righties like subban and semin with petry feeding them as the QB or like i said galchenyuk or patches with beaulieu and markov the QB i sound like a broken record force feeding my beliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Most players in the NHL are well scouted. Every team knows what Ovechkin likes to do on the powerplay. Everyone knew the back of the net was Gretzky's office. It's not Subban being predictable that's the problem. It's the whole team on the powerplay being predictable that was the issue. The Petry goal was good proof of that. They were expecting a pass to Subban and never properly covered him. That's where the real issue lies. When they know the puck is going back to Subban, they know where to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Most players in the NHL are well scouted. Every team knows what Ovechkin likes to do on the powerplay. Everyone knew the back of the net was Gretzky's office. It's not Subban being predictable that's the problem. It's the whole team on the powerplay being predictable that was the issue. The Petry goal was good proof of that. They were expecting a pass to Subban and never properly covered him. That's where the real issue lies. When they know the puck is going back to Subban, they know where to cover. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 no i think it just can't be replicated or doesn't work for the small simple but 100% true fact that markov can't feed PK a one timer when he's on the left and PK on the right because PK is right handed and contrary to that souray was left, so was streit etc.... pk and markov spend half the time switching spots crossing over skating around trying to open it up, all that valuable time just wasted... we can try and replicate it on the other side with 2 righties like subban and semin with petry feeding them as the QB or like i said galchenyuk or patches with beaulieu and markov the QB i sound like a broken record force feeding my beliefs Its crazy cause there are tons of teams in the NHL who have run extremely successful powerplays over the years, with their point men being one right handed shot and one left handed shot... In practince (and this is not giving any particular combination but just a hypothetical set up)... having opposite shooting defencemen is better because the shot can come from either side. Either defenceman can be the set up man, and either defenceman can take the shot. With two left handed defenceman, it is always the guy playing at the left point setting up the one timer at the right point... going the opposite way is difficult. Same with two righties... the guy at the right d, always has to set up the left point man for the one timer and not vice-versa. With a right handed D and a left handed D, you have more options... either guy can be the trigger man on the one timer. and here is an issue with our pp... its always trying to set up subban... its almost never setting up markov, who also has a good shot. As MOLG said... when you always do the same play (As a team) you are too predictable, and this is the habit that needs to be broken. That said, Saturday the PP was VERY Dangerous throughout the game, even when they didn't score... and some of that involved both subban and markov on the ice together... and thats a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Ramsey maybe starting to turn it a bit. As was already wisely suggested on here (by who i forget) "give him some time". Seen hints of change during during Wings game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Ramsey maybe starting to turn it a bit. As was already wisely suggested on here (by who i forget) "give him some time". Seen hints of change during during Wings game. It will take time, now that is enough time, 6 games and it is starting to look good. Let's keep that up. It don't take 80 games to fix a p/p. 6 games sounds about right. now I want it to be consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 There's some truth to this, too. It's also not something new -- DD's powerplay goal this season against Boston was scored by going to the net like that. It surprised me when he did it. Yes, does not happen nearly enough. Ramsey trying to get the players to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 no i think it just can't be replicated or doesn't work for the small simple but 100% true fact that markov can't feed PK a one timer when he's on the left and PK on the right because PK is right handed and contrary to that souray was left, so was streit etc.... pk and markov spend half the time switching spots crossing over skating around trying to open it up, all that valuable time just wasted... we can try and replicate it on the other side with 2 righties like subban and semin with petry feeding them as the QB or like i said galchenyuk or patches with beaulieu and markov the QB i sound like a broken record force feeding my beliefs We could easily replicate it even under the mirrored setup, you keep Subban on the right with Markov on the left, Semin on the right side acting as a right handed Kovalev, Markov can still use his fake shot cross box pass to Semin for one timers like he did with Kovy, Subban can still be a one timer option. Plekanec Eller Semin Pacioretty Gallagher Galchenyuk Subban Markov Petry Beaulieu 2 waves, both similar setups, both have one timers available on the wings and both points and a presence around the net either screening or making plays from around the net. I think these are both good recreations of a setup that worked for several years, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Or leaving the forward lines together. The five on five top six , go with them on the pp. Nice to have several options though. Welcoming that this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Well, the PP looked pretty good tonight. Commandant is onto something when he says we have to at least give the new coach a chance. 22.9% on the season now... 8th in the NHL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 We might have to start a new thread complaining about something new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 22.9% on the season now... 8th in the NHL Did you see how good the PP looked in the 2nd? A full 2 minutes of sustained possession in their zone. Only one clearance and it wasn't even a clearance but a deflected pass from patch to petry. The 5 guys.. Gall plex patch Subban petry Semin DD galchenyuk Petry subban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 did you see who was on the ice when the PP actually scored goals..... Subban - Markov. The reality is that Subban, Markov, and Petry are all good offensive defenceman... as I said before the problems have nothing at a;ll to do with two guys being right handed, or two guys being left handed, or one righty and one lefty.... None of this matters..... What matters is that a PP that ALWAYS passed to subban for a one-timer was too predictable, and now with Ramsey and Daigneault they are beginning to create other offensive opportunities, which will re-open Subban's one timer. Its all about system and multiple options on the pp... not about handedness... they have had great success with all kinds of combos of defencemen on the ice... r/r, l/l, and r/l, its all worked at times when they execute other parts of the plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 In other words this is far more complex than just defensive handedness... it has to do with 1) all 5 guys moving their feet and not being stationary 2) not being predictable and using multiple ways to create chances 3) getting traffic in front of the net 4) execution 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 did you see who was on the ice when the PP actually scored goals..... Subban - Markov. The reality is that Subban, Markov, and Petry are all good offensive defenceman... as I said before the problems have nothing at a;ll to do with two guys being right handed, or two guys being left handed, or one righty and one lefty.... None of this matters..... What matters is that a PP that ALWAYS passed to subban for a one-timer was too predictable, and now with Ramsey and Daigneault they are beginning to create other offensive opportunities, which will re-open Subban's one timer. Its all about system and multiple options on the pp... not about handedness... they have had great success with all kinds of combos of defencemen on the ice... r/r, l/l, and r/l, its all worked at times when they execute other parts of the plan. I asked if you saw the PP at the mid point of the 2nd period? and the fact that it was our best looking PP oppurtunity in probably the last 2 seasons regardless of goals scored in ions! And of course it had nothing at all to do with how efficient the 2 right handed point men were during the whole 2 minutes... Nope nothing at all... PK subban will think shot first always and forever. That is his game on the point on the PP And this will not change! His partner should be a righty on the point during the PP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It was just one shift, and still didnt result in a goal... hell i'm not even sure they got a shot on net..... and its the greatest pp in ions? and the solution for the future? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever read... honestly... its so stupid to claim that one two-minute powerplay is something that is the solution for a pp (thats no longer even broken as they are now top 10 in the league), that I don't even know how to respond anymore.... You are so damn set on being right with your stupid theory (a theory that most NHL teams break by the way, and there is probably a reason for that), that you are overlooking the fact the powerplay has looked good for 4 or 5 games now, and many times with a lhd and rhd on the point, in favor of one powerplay that doesn't even score.Honestly, I don't think you are a stupid person, and I'm not saying you are stupid.... but this argument your are bringing forward as proof of your theory... its stupid. Yeah one 2 minute sequence looked pretty good... but thats all it is one two minute sequence... the ultimate in small sample size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 FIRSTLY... i said it was our best looking PP opportunity in ions "REGARDLESS of goals scored"! don't paint a different picture... if you watched the game Saturday then I'm pretty sure our best 2 minute PP opportunity this season and for as long as i can remember (you know the ones where you don't score and get to watch 2 minutes of PP time) to see how it is performing, is that one mid way thru the 2nd or should we compare it to markov's slapper off the face off that lasted all of 3 seconds as a momentum builder!!!! Our GM and coach talk not only about the goals scored on the PP but the momentum built from the power play's we don't score on! but hey that idea must be the dumb as well! The dumbest thing I've read.... NO SERIOUSLY though.... is that after 5 games where we've "looked better" our PP is no longer "broken" and we are top 10 again!! LOL Lets forget the last 170 games..... lets use 2 games against the worst teams in hockey (pretty much) as the bench mark to being a top PP team again. please give your head a shake 1) 2 for 4 against -----Garbage TOronto * patches enters zone down left wing hits subban trailing the play back door right side right handed (beautiful find by pacioretty) * gallagher deflection off PK slap pass from the right, right handed pass from markov across the entire blue line... nearly picked off (beautiful slap pass by PK!) 2) 2 for 3 against Horrible BUFFALO * a 4 second PP scored right off the face-off markov slapper with subban as a decoy shot ** gallagher off a rebound with a give and go markov pacioretty, markov sliding down the boards left side left handed 3) 0 for 3 against a real team STL 4) 2 for 3 against a decent team DET **Gallagher taking out the Det goalie isn't even a freakin goal actually **Petry slapper using subban as his decoy cough cough 5) 0 for 5 against NYR another real team shall i keep going..... 6) 1 for 2 against pittsburgh they have a great O but one of the worst defences in hockey *pacioretty from the slot on a pass from petry right side right hand 7) 0 for 7 against OTT another good team 8) 1 for 6 declining BOS but still can D up *DD on a tap in from vintage markov back door left side left handed play from pacioretty cross ice pass... beautiful 9) 0 for 1 HORRIBLE TORONTO we have scored 8 PP goals and half were against toronto and buffalo but to your claim i get "no points" and am stupid. don't offend me please i just asked if you seen how good it looked that particular one because MT actually went with 2 same handed D!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thats the dumbest thing I've ever read... honestly... its so stupid to claim that one two-minute powerplay is something that is the solution for a pp (thats no longer even broken as they are now top 10 in the league), that I don't even know how to respond anymore.... You are so damn set on being right with your stupid theory (a theory that most NHL teams break by the way, and there is probably a reason for that), that you are overlooking the fact the powerplay has looked good for 4 or 5 games now, and many times with a lhd and rhd on the point, in favor of one powerplay that doesn't even score. Honestly, I don't think you are a stupid person, and I'm not saying you are stupid.... but this argument your are bringing forward as proof of your theory... its stupid. Yeah one 2 minute sequence looked pretty good... but thats all it is one two minute sequence... the ultimate in small sample size. ironically the top 4 PP teams last season ALL seem to use 2 same handed players on their points... i know stupid me its just 4 of 30+ teams..... only they are the top 4 PP teams of last season and wash DET and philly always run a strong PP year after year We use to be good year in year out up until Markov got hurt and we dropped that formation on the point. in no particular order from last seasons top 4 teams 1. WASH --Mike green R Carlsson R 2. PHILLY --Del zotto L Streit L 3. DET -- Datsyuk L Kronwall L 4. STL --Shattenkirk R Pietrangelo R Do you honestly think your sticks don't matter on how your set up on the PP? the top PP teams get it... year in year out... we use to get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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