30 Thoughts: Canadiens More than a One Man Team

[Habs30/31]

No - unless they have a lot of playoff stats.

At this point, it's probably safe to say that Tomas Plekanec is almost a 0.6 point per game player in the playoffs...he has played a total of 81 playoff games (which is still a little low for really knowing what kind of player he's been), and has 46 points. That's not that much different than his regular season numbers (where he's almost a 0.7 ppg player), and a difference of 0.1 point per game over 81 games is well under the amount a single hot or cold streak can give you. So I'll give you that Plekanec is probably only a 2nd line center in the playoffs.

But you cannot argue that Desharnais is crap in the playoffs. He hasn't had enough games played to tell you that -- only 38 games (in which he has a paltry 13 points.) The thing is, Desharnais has gone 38 games in a regular season with fewer points than that...and still finished that season with over 50 points. He's streaky. We don't know he's not a playoff performer. We know he hasn't yet gone on one of his hot streaks in the playoffs. Give him another few playoff runs and that can change.

Until it does he has not been a streaky player in the play offs. He has been a poor performer in the play offs. No disputing that.

Hopeful that will change now that he is not on the top line playing against the top line and top pairs.

Avg points per game. Tells part of the story sure. But not all.

How has a player responded in elimination games? How has a player responded in the series in which his team was eliminated. Is he a plus player in regular season and a minus player in the play offs? Do role players get moved up and put into their slot as play offs grind on? Do they score 1 goal in two rounds? Do they come up blank when the team is getting eliminated Or do they step up and get the game winning goals to stave off elimination.

Do fans of particular players have to try and convince others that the player(s) are not crap in the play offs? That's a telling sign.

Nobody ever had to sell that Toews, Kane, were great play off performers, as they have been since day one when they were practically teenagers.

Hey its tough to play in May. Some guys find it a lot tougher than others. Always been that way, always will be that way.

[Commandant]

How has DD responded in game 7 elimination games? By stripping the puck off Patrice Bergeron and setting up the game winning goal.

I mean if we want to use small sample sizes and all, we should probably talk about this.

[Habs30/31]

How has DD responded in game 7 elimination games? By stripping the puck off Patrice Bergeron and setting up the game winning goal.

I mean if we want to use small sample sizes and all, we should probably talk about this.

Yea pretty small sample size. Keep selling it though.

Nice assist. Nobody said he NEVER got a point. ha!

Anything from the 18 play off games after that one?

Hey I hear ya, and thanks for the high light. I loved that game 7 win. This Habs team really turned a corner with that win and DD played a big part. Stating that DDs has struggled in the play offs is only my observation. Meaning he could be way better. I like DD, and watched him play here in Hamilton when most Habs fans were saying David who? I loved him in Hamilton playing with Max. Everyone did. Exciting good hockey that the Bull Dogs to this day have not seen since. I remember DD's first goal in the NHL. Redirected a PK Subban shot/pass from the slot. I was so glad he played well when he got called up because i knew he was better than Gomez and Pleks and any center the Habs had playing for them. My only concern was his size and how he would stand up against the physical game on the NHL. But he was never the guy I would want as my number one center. Common knowledge the Habs have been searching for that center since before Koivu left. DD was never that guy. Third line and some pp is perfect for DD. Having watched him through the play offs of 011, 013, 014, 015 my opinion is he has struggled big time in the play offs. Hopefully in 016 that changes. Lots of other players took years of experience before their play off game stood up to the acid test. No shame in that fact of hockey life.

[Commandant]

The point went over your head.

Hes a ppg player in game 7s. 1 game 7 played in his career 1 point.

Calling him a game 7 performer based on that sample size... is almost the exact same thing as using 35 games to decide he isnt a playoff performer.

[Habs30/31]

The point went over your head.

Hes a ppg player in game 7s. 1 game 7 played in his career 1 point.

Calling him a game 7 performer based on that sample size... is almost the exact same thing as using 35 games to decide he isnt a playoff performer.

Talk about missing a point.

... "elimination games" I assume you think are only game 7's ? I'll define it for you. An elimination game is a play off game where if you lose you are eliminated and your season is over. Tricky. Stay with me now. This could happen in a game 4, 5, 6, or 7.

Habs faced elimination 3 times last season. 4 times the year before. 1 time the year before that. Once in 011 I believe.

Up until now I do not think DD has been a good play off performer. Thats not to say in 016 he wont be. As I stated clearly stated.

Or did that point go over your head too?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Notwithstanding the intemperate tone of the above exchange, Commandant does seem to be working a bit too hard. It is certainly fair to say, as he does, that past performance is no automatic predictor of future performance. At the same time, 35 playoff games IS enough to allow us to viably identify a pattern: namely, that DD's points production in the post-season is well below his regular season production. I've even identified a provisional explanation of why that is, i.e., the increased interference and clutching-and-grabbing in the playoffs neutralizes him, because he lacks the speed and/or size to shake it off. Put it all together, and it does make sense to say that, based on the info we have, DD is a 'regular season' guy who can't be relied on to be comparably productive in the playoffs.

The more games we have, the more useful the generalization becomes. Waaay to much was made of Eller's hot spell in 2013, for instance. People concluded that he's a 'money player' like Reggie Jackson. It was a false conclusion because it was based on a single run. DD has had three playoffs and has been conspicuously unproductive in all three. That's not destiny; he could still put together a great run in any given year in the future; but it's enough to suggest, as I say, a pattern.

[Habs30/31]

Notwithstanding the intemperate tone of the above exchange, Commandant does seem to be working a bit too hard. It is certainly fair to say, as he does, that past performance is no automatic predictor of future performance. At the same time, 35 playoff games IS enough to allow us to viably identify a pattern: namely, that DD's points production in the post-season is well below his regular season production. I've even identified a provisional explanation of why that is, i.e., the increased interference and clutching-and-grabbing in the playoffs neutralizes him, because he lacks the speed and/or size to shake it off. Put it all together, and it does make sense to say that, based on the info we have, DD is a 'regular season' guy who can't be relied on to be comparably productive in the playoffs.

The more games we have, the more useful the generalization becomes. Waaay to much was made of Eller's hot spell in 2013, for instance. People concluded that he's a 'money player' like Reggie Jackson. It was a false conclusion because it was based on a single run. DD has had three playoffs and has been conspicuously unproductive in all three. That's not destiny; he could still put together a great run in any given year in the future; but it's enough to suggest, as I say, a pattern.

Yes, this could be the year that ends that. I think that chance increases if he stays 2nd/3rd line duty.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Notwithstanding the intemperate tone of the above exchange, Commandant does seem to be working a bit too hard. It is certainly fair to say, as he does, that past performance is no automatic predictor of future performance. At the same time, 35 playoff games IS enough to allow us to viably identify a pattern: namely, that DD's points production in the post-season is well below his regular season production. I've even identified a provisional explanation of why that is, i.e., the increased interference and clutching-and-grabbing in the playoffs neutralizes him, because he lacks the speed and/or size to shake it off. Put it all together, and it does make sense to say that, based on the info we have, DD is a 'regular season' guy who can't be relied on to be comparably productive in the playoffs.

The more games we have, the more useful the generalization becomes. Waaay to much was made of Eller's hot spell in 2013, for instance. People concluded that he's a 'money player' like Reggie Jackson. It was a false conclusion because it was based on a single run. DD has had three playoffs and has been conspicuously unproductive in all three. That's not destiny; he could still put together a great run in any given year in the future; but it's enough to suggest, as I say, a pattern.

Four actually. One he was a rookie, two he was our top offensive centre, one in which the whole team collapsed offensively with Tom Gilbert and Torrey Mitchell in our top five playoff scorers. If Desharnais scores in this playoffs (33 points in 22 games in ECHL, 27 points in 25 games for AHL, not like he has sucked in the playoffs his whole career), will it be credited to his linemates, to his match-ups, to an aberration year (like Eller) or to his shooting percentage finally catching up? And if he doesn't score, will it be blamed on his linemates, his match-ups or being a playoff choker?

[Habs30/31]

Four actually. One he was a rookie, two he was our top offensive centre, one in which the whole team collapsed offensively with Tom Gilbert and Torrey Mitchell in our top five playoff scorers. If Desharnais scores in this playoffs (33 points in 22 games in ECHL, 27 points in 25 games for AHL, not like he has sucked in the playoffs his whole career), will it be credited to his linemates, to his match-ups, to an aberration year (like Eller) or to his shooting percentage finally catching up? And if he doesn't score, will it be blamed on his linemates, his match-ups or being a playoff choker?

You have theM all covered , which ever one suits you I suppose

If DD finally has a big play offs I will attribute it to experience, smarts, talent, and adapting on his part.

[KoRP]

Until the NHL starts calling penalties for interference and obstruction in the playoffs, the same as the regular season, then smaller, more skilled players are going to underachieve in the playoffs.

I can say it's not DD's heart that has let him down in the post season, it's the "Bruins" rule that has held smaller/skilled players back, so it's a war, and midgets never do well in physical wars vs 6' 200lb plus tall men.

That is all.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Until the NHL starts calling penalties for interference and obstruction in the playoffs, the same as the regular season, then smaller, more skilled players are going to underachieve in the playoffs.

I can say it's not DD's heart that has let him down in the post season, it's the "Bruins" rule that has held smaller/skilled players back, so it's a was, and midgets never do well in physical wars vs 6' plus tall men.

That is all.

Lots of small players have played great in the playoffs. Martin St. Louis is probably the best example. I know people hate him as an example since he's the trump card for any small player argument, but Brian Gionta, Daniel Briere, Mike Cammalleri and Tyler Johnson are all very successful playoff players while guys like Brendan Gallagher, Brad Marchand and Mats Zuccarello have been decent. We've seen in the regular season DD have snake bites and we've also seen superior defensive players shut him down. Off the top line, this year might be different.

I agree with you 100% on calling penalties in the playoffs. Mike Babcock tries to claim that calling penalties means the game isn't decided by the players, but that's such a moronic statement. Taking penalties is a choice by the player.

[hab29RETIRED]

There's a big difference between small players with exceptional or very good speed and small players with average speed.

Lots of small players have played great in the playoffs. Martin St. Louis is probably the best example. I know people hate him as an example since he's the trump card for any small player argument, but Brian Gionta, Daniel Briere, Mike Cammalleri and Tyler Johnson are all very successful playoff players while guys like Brendan Gallagher, Brad Marchand and Mats Zuccarello have been decent. We've seen in the regular season DD have snake bites and we've also seen superior defensive players shut him down. Off the top line, this year might be different.

I agree with you 100% on calling penalties in the playoffs. Mike Babcock tries to claim that calling penalties means the game isn't decided by the players, but that's such a moronic statement. Taking penalties is a choice by the player.

[Toronthab]

Interesting posts guys... thanks.

[Habs30/31]

Until the NHL starts calling penalties for interference and obstruction in the playoffs, the same as the regular season, then smaller, more skilled players are going to underachieve in the playoffs.

I can say it's not DD's heart that has let him down in the post season, it's the "Bruins" rule that has held smaller/skilled players back, so it's a war, and midgets never do well in physical wars vs 6' 200lb plus tall men.

That is all.

Gallagher was our best forward in the play offs last season.

Cammy had the best play off of any hab in recent memory.

Gionta untill late in his career always delivered at play off time.

St Louis ripped it up when clutching and grabbing was way worse than today.

Marchand scored 5 goals in the finals alone.

Kane has been the MVP of the play offs twice.

Johnson in Tbay aint all that big and lead all scorers last years play offs did he not. Playing injured too boot.

I'm sure DD would be the first to say he uses his size to his advantage and it is not holding him back.

[hab29RETIRED]

DD does not have the speed of any of those guys.

Gallagher was our best forward in the play offs last season.

Cammy had the best play off of any hab in recent memory.

Gionta untill late in his career always delivered at play off time.

St Louis ripped it up when clutching and grabbing was way worse than today.

Marchand scored 5 goals in the finals alone.

Kane has been the MVP of the play offs twice.

Johnson in Tbay aint all that big and lead all scorers last years play offs did he not. Playing injured too boot.

I'm sure DD would be the first to say he uses his size to his advantage and it is not holding him back.

[Commandant]

False.... some of those guys are speedsters, but certainly not all of them.

Gallagher is not a speedster... he's a good skater, but he's nowhere close to the fastest guy on our team and not that much faster than Davey.
Cammalleri is not a speedster
Saku Koivu did quite well in the playoffs, and he was not a speedster
Mikael Granlund is not a speedster and he's produced in his two playoff years in Minnesota.

there are other examples...

[Habs30/31]

DD does not have the speed of any of those guys.

Sure he does. Not all but some of them.

I would agree all those guys have a great shot....and they use it.

Davey? Shoots as a last resort.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Sure he does. Not all but some of them.

I would agree all those guys have a great shot....and they use it.

Davey? Shoots as a last resort.

Good point. Playing with Pacioretty arguably distorted DD's game to some degree. Everything he did was geared to getting Patches the puck. Playing with Margarine and Weisse seems to have brought us a more 'rounded' offensive game from Desharnais, although he is still obviously a playmaker first (which I like; always had a soft spot for these cagy playmaking guys).

Some players do take longer than others to figure out how to be effective in the playoffs. Remember when Hossa was routinely anointed a 'playoff bust?' Heck, some folks on this board didn't want Gainey to acquire him for that reason.

So, there's still hope for DD in the dance. But he does need to put together an effective playoff this year...otherwise he's 0-4 (0-5 if we want, rather unchairtably, to count his rookie season) and the pattern becomes pretty definitive IMHO.

[Jeff Price (no relation)]

Davey seems to be shooting a hell of a lot more this year.

I think playing DD with Patches was probably bad for DD. (It was great for Max -- DD is a very good playmaker.) DD knows Max is a better goalscorer than he is, so he passed to him, every single time. Now you put DD on a line with Fleischman and Weise. DD's a better goalscorer than either of those guys, and he knows it. Not that they aren't decent (and he's making them so much better), but so far this year, when he's got the best opportunity, he shoots the puck.

It's one thing to feed your best goalscorer the puck - that's kinda needed. But DD's problem in the past was, he might have a far better angle or opportunity than Max, and yet he'd pass to Max. I don't know if it's humility or a lack of confidence, but either way, sometimes you have to shoot it yourself. Now he's doing it.

[Habs30/31]

Good point. Playing with Pacioretty arguably distorted DD's game to some degree. Everything he did was geared to getting Patches the puck. Playing with Margarine and Weisse seems to have brought us a more 'rounded' offensive game from Desharnais, although he is still obviously a playmaker first (which I like; always had a soft spot for these cagy playmaking guys).

Some players do take longer than others to figure out how to be effective in the playoffs. Remember when Hossa was routinely anointed a 'playoff bust?' Heck, some folks on this board didn't want Gainey to acquire him for that reason.

So, there's still hope for DD in the dance. But he does need to put together an effective playoff this year...otherwise he's 0-4 (0-5 if we want, rather unchairtably, to count his rookie season) and the pattern becomes pretty definitive IMHO.

Agree hundred per cent. Used Hossa as an example the other day.

[habs rule]

And here is what the Dutch Gretzky had to say about DD “No disrespect to any centre I’ve played with, but Davey’s by far the best player that I’ve played with,” Weise said. “He just does so many things well. He protects the puck so well for a small guy, he competes. There’s sometimes when he’s in a one-on-one battle and I want to come support him and he’s always yelling at me: ‘Don’t come in there, just get open.’ Because you know he’s going to win his battles. He’s doing an incredible job this year.”

The fans may hate him but his team mates love him. I wonder who is right?

[Commandant]

Semin has been given (on a per minute basis)

The easiest zone starts on the entire team

The easiest quality of opponents on the entire team

Despite this He is 11th on the team in forwards in Quality scoring chances per minute played
He is 1st on the team in forwards in shots from outside the quality scoring chance zone per minute played.


He's shooting the puck like a ing madman, but from outside of anywhere that is considered dangerous.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

And here is what the Dutch Gretzky had to say about DD “No disrespect to any centre I’ve played with, but Davey’s by far the best player that I’ve played with,” Weise said. “He just does so many things well. He protects the puck so well for a small guy, he competes. There’s sometimes when he’s in a one-on-one battle and I want to come support him and he’s always yelling at me: ‘Don’t come in there, just get open.’ Because you know he’s going to win his battles. He’s doing an incredible job this year.”

The fans may hate him but his team mates love him. I wonder who is right?

That's two wingers who call DD the best linemate they ever played with. Not bad for a guy many fans have wanted ridden out of town on a rail.

[Habs30/31]

That's two wingers who call DD the best linemate they ever played with. Not bad for a guy many fans have wanted ridden out of town on a rail.

As far as Pacs goes, "Davey is the best center I ever played with" Yep, DD is better than Pleks and Gomez. I agreed with Max.

Dont know the stars Weiss has been playing with but I don't doubt they do not have the talent DD has.

Great 3rd line/2nd line center. Bout time the coach played him that way.

[habs rule]

Semin has been given (on a per minute basis)

The easiest zone starts on the entire team

The easiest quality of opponents on the entire team

Despite this He is 11th on the team in forwards in Quality scoring chances per minute played

He is 1st on the team in forwards in shots from outside the quality scoring chance zone per minute played.

He's shooting the puck like a ######ing madman, but from outside of anywhere that is considered dangerous.

Well then I guess Le Genius is right to write him off. Mind you he could be a streaky scorer, I don't know. I remember DD went through a long drought. I remember Gomez going for a year without scoring. I am not arguing with you, but I do believe if you say you are going to give a guy a fair shot, then you do it. Like the blue highlighter was the red empty?