johnnyhasbeen Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 You have all been told how wonderful Bobby Orr was. The Best defence man of all time. I want you to watch the video. Notice how out of position this great defence man is on all of our goals in the comeback. He was a terrible defence man who put up big offensive numbers. This video is how I remember him. As a defence man he sucked, as a 4th forward he was great He was a dirty goon of a player too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted February 29, 2016 Author Share Posted February 29, 2016 Watch the stick over the head before this fight My favourite is the game winning goal when he is up by our net as 3 of our players break out. That and Henri robbing him blind. Yep, he was great..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 From what I've watched of Orr, he wasn't a terrible defenceman. He was one of the best defencemen in that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Did you watch the clip? If Subban played like that his ass would be nailed to the bench. He was out of position always, The highlights are always of his great offence skills. He sucked on defence, was caught up ice way too often, I don't need clips, I watched him play. Watch for him on all 5 goals in the 3rd period and then tell me how great a defence man he was. Yes he was a great offensive threat. I agree with that statement, great 4th forward, terrible on defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Did you watch the clip? If Subban played like that his ass would be nailed to the bench. He was out of position always, The highlights are always of his great offence skills. He sucked on defence, was caught up ice way too often, I don't need clips, I watched him play. Watch for him on all 5 goals in the 3rd period and then tell me how great a defence man he was. Yes he was a great offensive threat. I agree with that statement, great 4th forward, terrible on defence. You have to keep the era in context. Orr was a great defenceman in that era of NHL defencemen. Also, Orr's stick work is goonish today but not back then. I've seen videos of Beliveau elbowing guys in the head. He had 143 penalty minutes one year, you think every penalty was clean hockey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Search youtube and all the Orr clips are of his great offensive feats, they do not show any of his plethora of bone head plays. Search Subban's turnovers and there are tons. Subban is way better defensively than Orr was. I watched both. Yes, Orr was a scoring machine, but it very often left him up ice and out of position. Now, why am I posting this? To point out that Subban should be given slack when he pitches in and gets caught up ice or makes a bad turn over. It happens to all great offensive defence men. If he is going to be all he can be the coach, team mates (captain) and fans have to accept this as part of what comes with top offensive defence men. You do not hear the Boston sportscaster belittle Orr for this loss, even though he is pretty much responsible for every goal in the come back. It was accepted in his game. He doesn't even go on about how easily Richard stripped him of the puck or his lack of effort in chasing Big M. Why was he by the net in a tied game allowing us a break away? Nobody questioned that. He was an offensive defence man. Let Subban attack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Era wise. the best defence man was Harvey. Orr was the best 4th forward but Ontario and Boston want to write history. They are wrong It is like saying Gretsky was the best defenceman, Orr lined up on the blueline then became a fourth forward. It changed the game. Oh, we all thought he was goonish back in that era by the way. That sucker punch on mikita was typical of his hijinx Friggin Bruin goon then hide behind Sanderson I have been searching a long time to find a clip of how bad he really was defensively, All the clips as I said are of his brilliance offensively, which I do and always have given him credit for, This game reel shows it like it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I agree with your point about Subban, but I think trying to say Bobby Orr was Erik Karlsson is serious revisionist history. He was a great defensive defenceman of his time. I've watched enough Orr on VHS and heard from people who watched him back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Every player makes mistakes, even Bobby Orr. A player can never be judged by highlights or lowlights... should never be judged by these types of compilation videos, but rather full game footage. Every game of full game footage I've seen of Orr suggests he was brilliant. In control of the play and the puck much of the time he was on the ice, and pretty good defensively in getting the puck back when he didn't have it. Sure he will have bad plays and bad games, doesn't make him bad at defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Search youtube and all the Orr clips are of his great offensive feats, they do not show any of his plethora of bone head plays. Search Subban's turnovers and there are tons. Subban is way better defensively than Orr was. I watched both. Yes, Orr was a scoring machine, but it very often left him up ice and out of position. Now, why am I posting this? To point out that Subban should be given slack when he pitches in and gets caught up ice or makes a bad turn over. It happens to all great offensive defence men. If he is going to be all he can be the coach, team mates (captain) and fans have to accept this as part of what comes with top offensive defence men. You do not hear the Boston sportscaster belittle Orr for this loss, even though he is pretty much responsible for every goal in the come back. It was accepted in his game. He doesn't even go on about how easily Richard stripped him of the puck or his lack of effort in chasing Big M. Why was he by the net in a tied game allowing us a break away? Nobody questioned that. He was an offensive defence man. Let Subban attack! So you post a clip of the Greatest Defenseman of All Time, then denigrate him for not playing defense, just to turn around and use his play to say Subban should do the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 I posted a clip trying to show why people should lighten the frig up on Subban for little things like being caught up ice last week. He needs to do that, as did Orr, The point of an offensive defence man is to put up points. If Orr had his ass nailed to the blueline he would never have put up the points he did. Why are Subbans points down? He is being forced to be what he isn't. Loosen the reigns and he will put up numbers. Orr was a great goal scorer, as was Subban until his ass was ripped too often by too many know it alls. Nobody belittled Orr when he made his mistakes. He tended to make up for them as his plus minus shows. Was he great as a defence man? NO! Was he a defence man who was a great player? YES! If you want to believe the stories you are told go ahead. I watched him play his whole career. He was always in too deep and was caught out of position regularly. He may be Don Cherry and your pick as the best ever but as a defence man he was terrible. Now, did you watch the clip? Did you see how out of position he was on all 5 of those goals? That was normal for him. He scored a ton of goals by jumping up like that. I think it would be good if PK did the same. I also think if he does he will be caught up ice out of position many times, as was Orr. That is something we would have to accept. I would rather PK was an offensive threat than a defensive juggernaut, I remember Orr and the goony Bruins. They made Lucic/Chara's team of a few years ago look like pussy cats. They were the big bad gouins, They were the reason I grew to hate Boston. Now , you just wait until you are a senior and some young know it all, kid starts telling you how Chara was the best defence man in this era and you will see how I feel . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Every player makes mistakes, even Bobby Orr. A player can never be judged by highlights or lowlights... should never be judged by these types of compilation videos, but rather full game footage. Every game of full game footage I've seen of Orr suggests he was brilliant. In control of the play and the puck much of the time he was on the ice, and pretty good defensively in getting the puck back when he didn't have it. Sure he will have bad plays and bad games, doesn't make him bad at defence. That reel show very clearly the Orr I remember, caught out of position a ton, scored a few, responsible for a few. We won that game because of Orr. The thing is, the Bruin media didn't care. That was what Orr was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Bobby Orr was overrated eh. Thanks, needed a good chuckle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Bobby Orr was overrated eh. Thanks, needed a good chuckle! Not what I said, I said he was a great offensive player, weak defensively. Again, watch were he is on every goal in the 3rd period. Replace him with Subban and tell me what the media would say about his play? He cost them that game. Clearly. Defensively he was no Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 hahahaha nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Subban's points aren't down though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Orr, a bad defenseman, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:. Naw Johnny, that's just wrong bud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 He was a great 4th forward, he hung out around the other teams net. He lined up as a defence man and then became a 4th forward. That is how he played. Does that make him a great defence man or a great player that played defence. There is a huge difference in my eye. And to top it all off he was a hateful Bruin, wore that stinkin black and gold. Dirty like Marchand, talented as heck, but a stinkin Bruin none the less. the better #4 made him look bad all the time.His figures are badly skewed by the expansion teams he scored on regularly. He may have been the most talented player of his day, but not the best d-man. That was Harvey, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 His most famous goal. Watch the clip, D-man or forward? He even used a short stick like a forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 Subban's points aren't down though.... His production has been down since 2012-13, ever since he stopped joining the rush. He was a point a game player...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 You think Subban should be posting 82points/year? Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Gotta say, johnny is doing some good work here. With the Habs season so pitiful, he's coming in to humour us on his idea that Bobby Orr wasn't a great defenceman in his day. To somehow argue that Subban should be less of a defenceman like Bobby Orr was (he wasn't) in order to score more (tied for fifth in the league in assists) Appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 His production has been down since 2012-13, ever since he stopped joining the rush. He was a point a game player...... Scoring league wide is down since 2012-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Gotta say, johnny is doing some good work here. With the Habs season so pitiful, he's coming in to humour us on his idea that Bobby Orr wasn't a great defenceman in his day. To somehow argue that Subban should be less of a defenceman like Bobby Orr was (he wasn't) in order to score more (tied for fifth in the league in assists) Appreciate it! The idea that Orr wasn't good at defence is laughable... we didn't have corsi in those days (it wasn't tracked) and i know there are some issues with plus/minus, but to be the all-time record holder with +124 in a single season is so far and above everyone else, that even with the issues with the stat, its such a ridiculously huge number that he can't be called a bad defensive player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I didn't see Orr play. But I suspect johnny has a point that Orr was allowed to play HIS game rather than be forced into a robotic one-size-fits-all mould - and the result was arguably the single greatest player in the history of the sport (that's where johnny and I would disagree; just on numbers alone, as well as anecdotal evidence, and impact upon the way the position is played, Orr is surely at the very top of all-time great players, challenged only by Gretzky, really, and Plante in nets). I HATE the way Subban has been framed as a 'problem' because he likes to rush the puck, make the big hit, make the flashy play. I dispute that these tendencies hurt the team; 99% of the time, they help it. But today's coaching, generally speaking, lacks the imagination to recognize that gifted players should be allowed to express their gifts except under very constrained conditions. Instead, everyone has to play like a robot. If I were coaching Subban, I would let him do his thing and only rein him in if he gets completely out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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